Throwdown Voting Blind Poll

[dadsr4]

That's not true; I can see EVERYTHING that happens here.

I guess you weren't aware I was a TD mod. :biggrin1:

Let's leave it at that, shall we?

:becky:

NEXT!

:laugh:

Find, I will amend my post.
"In terms of priorities, you are probably on track. You can't see anything that is worth your integrity, any ways.

 

[Moose]

Find, I will amend my post.
"In terms of priorities, you are probably on track. You can't see anything that is worth your integrity, any ways.

Please elaborate...I'm all ears...

 

[Gore]

Thanks, Ron, I saw that but didn't feel it said strongly enough that the "theme" ingredient had to be grilled or smoked. I know we expect that in TDs but am I misreading Rule 5?

Again, thanks for pitching in, I appreciate it.

Kathy, the DQs are ultimately subjective. If you were the moderator, these would be DQed. Another moderator, no. We can all make equally good justifications why they should or shouldn't be. The best example of this is that BBQing/grilling is not even well-defined! We've had numerous polls on this in Q talk and there is a huge range of answers. For the purposes of the TDs, in the past, you could not cook in your fireplace, it was a DQ. BBQing/grilling meant outside. This was a pretty hard rule. However, there have been a few instances where this was allowed. At the moment, you may cook in your fireplace, indoors. At least as I read it from some of Jed's entries cooked inside. But what if it is a gas fireplace? Would that still be allowed? Theoretically, it should be, since gas and wood are both allowed, right? Well, if I can cook in my gas fireplace indoors, then can I cook in Ray's indoor BBQ pit? Incidentally, I want it clear that I'm not calling out Jed. I read in an earlier post that he asked for clarification from the mods and received it that it is ok. I just note that this is a change in the rules.

Well, some mods will say yes, that's just BBQing indoors -- it's still over a flame, no different from a fireplace, really. Others will say no, that's an oven, dude: DQ. By removing mods from the equation, there isn't an arbitrary application of these rules. You just have the voters to worry about and satisfying them. Yeah, their opinions also may vary, but I think we have a better idea where the majority lies than ANY single arbitrary person.

As for the salad, that is an instance that the DQs were supposed to avoid completely. The DQ power was supposed to be an endorsement. If the mods did not DQ the entry, that meant that it satisfied all the rules and was a valid entry. There was no DQing after the voting started as the entry was already endorsed. This was the principle reason for the mods having this power, ... yet in this case..., and I think in another as I understand it.

Incidentally, I have nothing against the mods at all. They are applying their DQs using their interpretations of the rules. It is the subjective application that I don't like that cannot be avoided once ANY mod has this power. I also don't like the message it sends that this is a special club where you have to jump through these hoops to play, and of course know what the current hoops are! I do think some of their interpretations are a bit hilarious, but they are theirs. The difference of opinion is that I believe the collective reasoning of the entire voting group can do this without all the drama or controversy.

Incidentally, I'm currently curious about the clusterfark TD at the moment. It seems that almost all the entries show sliced steak in which the slices are significantly less than 1" thick. According to the special rules, and their interpretation, this could result in these entries being DQed. Will they be? I'm guessing they won't be, but a strict reading of the rules by certain mods would have them tossed. op2:

 

[CharredApron]

Kathy, the DQs are ultimately subjective. If you were the moderator, these would be DQed. Another moderator, no. We can all make equally good justifications why they should or shouldn't be. The best example of this is that BBQing/grilling is not even well-defined! We've had numerous polls on this in Q talk and there is a huge range of answers. For the purposes of the TDs, in the past, you could not cook in your fireplace, it was a DQ. BBQing/grilling meant outside. This was a pretty hard rule. However, there have been a few instances where this was allowed. At the moment, you may cook in your fireplace, indoors. At least as I read it from some of Jed's entries cooked inside. But what if it is a gas fireplace? Would that still be allowed? Theoretically, it should be, since gas and wood are both allowed, right? Well, if I can cook in my gas fireplace indoors, then can I cook in Ray's indoor BBQ pit? Incidentally, I want it clear that I'm not calling out Jed. I read in an earlier post that he asked for clarification from the mods and received it that it is ok. I just note that this is a change in the rules.

Well, some mods will say yes, that's just BBQing indoors -- it's still over a flame, no different from a fireplace, really. Others will say no, that's an oven, dude: DQ. By removing mods from the equation, there isn't an arbitrary application of these rules. You just have the voters to worry about and satisfying them. Yeah, their opinions also may vary, but I think we have a better idea where the majority lies than ANY single arbitrary person.

As for the salad, that is an instance that the DQs were supposed to avoid completely. The DQ power was supposed to be an endorsement. If the mods did not DQ the entry, that meant that it satisfied all the rules and was a valid entry. There was no DQing after the voting started as the entry was already endorsed. This was the principle reason for the mods having this power, ... yet in this case..., and I think in another as I understand it.

Incidentally, I have nothing against the mods at all. They are applying their DQs using their interpretations of the rules. It is the subjective application that I don't like that cannot be avoided once ANY mod has this power. I also don't like the message it sends that this is a special club where you have to jump through these hoops to play, and of course know what the current hoops are! I do think some of their interpretations are a bit hilarious, but they are theirs. The difference of opinion is that I believe the collective reasoning of the entire voting group can do this without all the drama or controversy.

Incidentally, I'm currently curious about the clusterfark TD at the moment. It seems that almost all the entries show sliced steak in which the slices are significantly less than 1" thick. According to the special rules, and their interpretation, this could result in these entries being DQed. Will they be? I'm guessing they won't be, but a strict reading of the rules by certain mods would have them tossed. op2:

I am going to have to call Aaron and tell him he is not Barbecuing he's just cookin indoors.

 

[Gore]

I am going to have to call Aaron and tell him he is not Barbecuing he's just cookin indoors.

Exactly my point! There are exceptions to all the rules! Where the lines are drawn depends on the person drawing the line. I remember being very upset when the person was DQ'ed for cooking in his fireplace, but that was the interpretation du jour (a little French there for you Jed). Now we see that Aaron might as well be cooking in a crockpot -- man, what a loser. :tsk: ... oh, no, that is ok now, but then is a crockpot allowable now? :noidea:

 

[CharredApron]

Exactly my point! There are exceptions to all the rules! Where the lines are drawn depends on the person drawing the line. I remember being very upset when the person was DQ'ed for cooking in his fireplace, but that was the interpretation du jour (a little French there for you Jed). Now we see that Aaron might as well be cooking in a crockpot -- man, what a loser. :tsk: ... oh, no, that is ok now, but then is a crockpot allowable now? :noidea:

Crockpots are indeed allowed if Biggie declares it so, and if and when I ever win another TD I am going to call an OptiGrill TD.

 

[Gore]

Crockpots are indeed allowed if Biggie declares it so, and if and when I ever win another TD I am going to call an OptiGrill TD.

This would be an interesting case. In the past, the special rules superseded the permanent rules. For instance, I believe Bob Brisket called a TD "Fried" in which the entries must be fried and BBQed/Grilled was not a requirement. Entries were indeed submitted that did not obey rule 5 and were not DQed. However recently someone made an entry in the "free-for-all" TD in which you can "cook what ever you want" and was DQed for having cooked something that was not allowed -- which would seem impossible. Again, this is another case of an arbitrary DQ as I know this person received PMs from many people saying the mods should not have DQed this entry, since it actually followed the rules. What would they do with an Optigrill TD? Would they DQ everything?

 

[CharredApron]

bien sûr :dancer: The ever popular "DQ Throwdown" The current four flavors are out of their "best if used by date"

 

[smoke ninja]

Excellent points phizzy.

Interpretation is definitely in the eye of the beholder, all the more reason to "let the voters decide" to me a wood fireplace cook is a more qualified entry than one from a gasser. I personally mark down for something cooked on a gas grill. Im not saying i wont vote for the entry but its a factor. Voter interpretation will be interesting in the independence day td vote. Some entries dont feel very 4th of july to me. Again my interpretation and am allowed to vote using any criteria i want. Others are free to do the same. I still dont think any entries should be DQed. If someone won it with a holiday ham so be it, the voters will have spoken. Yes leaving it all up to the voters is the only way to eliminate controversy, I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

 

[dadsr4]

Please elaborate...I'm all ears...

I don't think you'd peek.

 

[Grimm5577]

I thought the polls should have been hidden the whole time.

 

[cliffcarter]

So my vote breaks the tie, for now.

 

[dadsr4]

So my vote breaks the tie, for now.

If you wish so, Ok....

 

[Happy Hapgood]

Crockpots are indeed allowed if Biggie declares it so, and if and when I ever win another TD I am going to call an OptiGrill TD.

I guess we would need a Mod call for an OptiGrill TD. Would the Mighty Fagor Halogen Tabletop Oven qualify ?

Biggie might approve since this rig will handle [yes] foil.

 

[CharredApron]

I guess we would need a Mod call for an OptiGrill TD. Would the Mighty Fagor Halogen Tabletop Oven qualify ?

Biggie might approve since this rig will handle [yes] foil.

No it would not! He who cooks on gas. :dancer:

 

[buccaneer]

No it would not! He who cooks on gas. :dancer:

I'm yet to be convinced that it isn't the wifey of the house that cooked on gas!:twitch:

 

[buccaneer]

I disagree with this and I'll show you why. First, my dear brother Fingerlickin', regardless of my disagreement with your statement above, I love you like a brother, I respect you and I find you funny as all hail.

Here is a link to the vote thread of the "Sauce is Boss" TD you called. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148876

The rules were this:


I'm fighting the clock to get this written so I just checked some TD rules, not all and I didn't find anything specifically written in the few minutes I checked that the theme has to be grilled or smoked. I do know, however, that is something the TDs are known to be about, that the theme or point of the dish must be grilled or smoked. So if your paragraph at the top is correct, brother, we would expect the majority of the 57 votes to have gone for a sauce we saw grilled or smoked? Right?

Wrong.

* 23 votes for an entry that did not have a smoked or grilled sauce
* 16 votes for another entry that did not have a smoked or grilled sauce
* 4 votes for a sauce shown made on a stove indoors
* 12 votes for an entry that did not have a sauce the entrant talked about making in the two threads included and there was an unanswered question whether the sauce was bought as is or made by the entrant
* 2 votes for an entry that had a sauce made from scratch with step by step photos including the smoking of it

Jason, 55 out of 57 people voted for sauce not smoked or grilled and one entry with most-likely bought sauce. With "Sauce is Boss" as the TD theme, do you feel the intelligent voters figured it out?

And I still love you my crazy brother. :hug: :kiss:

Kathy, this is not only right on the money, it was prophetic!

Since the TD's have become pointless, we supporters HAVE to find some way of having fun participating!

 

[BobBrisket]

I'm yet to be convinced that it isn't the wifey of the house that cooked on gas!:twitch:

You need to let it go! I'm yet to be convinced you can do that! :tsk: A second vote was done. You saw the results. Move on. Let it go! Would you like a third voting session?

Honestly, it's this type of behavior on your part and that of a few others that brings the TD's down.

I don't find your comments or behavior very "brethrenly!" I suppose we will be hearing about your displeasure for the next few.....weeks, months!?

Let it go!

On another note, it's all this constant, whining, moaning, and groaning, jabbing and passive/aggressive BS about how things were, how they are now, how they should be that quite frankly have gotten OLD!!! That's the stuff that is dragging the TD's to the depths. Folks, join the TD's or DON'T. If you can be a gracious winner and/or a gracious loser, even better, join. If not, don't join. If all you have to offer is BS, whining, and sour grapes, stay out of the TD's.

I'm talking as Bob the Member. Honestly, this crap has gotten old and tiresome as have some members!!!! A big reason why I don't join em as much as I once did.

And you all wonder why "new" people don't want to join. Maybe it's because of all the useless commentary and constant complaining.

It's been going on 3 weeks of having to listen to this and partially deal with it as a Moderator on some levels that has left me TIRED. It's draining.

Be a part of the solution and not another part of the problem! At the end of the day, it's a contest based on a picture and a write up. Check the egos, alliances, and petty BS at the door. That's where the fun once was. In a simple picture. As of this last debacle, the last bit of fun has been sucked out of the TD's IMO! It's SAD! And it SUCKS!

Good night! You all keep hashing out the "what if's."


Bob

 

[jakel]

I'm yet to be convinced that it isn't the wifey of the house that cooked on gas!:twitch:

A real class act you are Buccs :tsk:

 

[BBQchef33]

Some folks are just hanging themselves... we've supplied the rope.. they are knotting it.. time to take previous warning seriously.

I try to stay out of the TD forum moderation and let the TD mods handle it.. but the TD IS part of the BBQ Brethren Forums and this bullchit would not be tolerated outside of it. So take this as the last straw.. and last warning..any more whining or passive aggressive backdoor bullchit about the results of the grandmaster poll, and the TD forum will cease to exist in your forum index.

Im about done with the bullchit.. If you find yourself LOCKED OUT of the TD forum. You will know why.