Sometimes judges get disgusted too

[Okie Sawbones]

I judged a contest this past weekend, and was pleasantly surprised to see a Memphis-styled rib in the box. Flavor was great; tenderness perfect, loved the presentation. 9-9-9 for me. I had to shake my head at four of the other judges commenting (after scores were turned in) on how it had no sauce, no sweetness.

I looked on the KCBS site, and of course my score tallied 36. The table average was 30.0895. This is a shame. Now this cook will probably figure it takes sweet to win.

At least he knows one judge appreciated the effort -- I sent him a comment card saying how exceptional the rib was.

 

[Blanton]

I looked on the KCBS site, and of course my score tallied 36. The table average was 30.0895. This is a shame. Now this cook will probably figure it takes sweet to win.

I think the others judges showed that it does.

 

[Jabber]

Thats the problem with alot of judges,they don't know how to judge.If I remember correctly you are to judge on how the contestant presented his entry.If it was a excellent rib with no sauce on it you were correct in giving it all 9's as you did.As a cook I would like to Thank You for being fair to that team.If you could only get those other 5 people setting at the table to understand what you dne time we turned in pork with no sauce,it was some of the best pork we had ever turned in and we were DAL,the only time in 13 years.Will not do that again.As a cook you have to learn what they like and don't like,and KCBS says its a meat contest ,but its really a sauce contest.Don't get me wrong you have to have the meat cooked perfectly,but you better have some good sweet sauce on it for the most part.

 

[DoctorCueNC]

I am a cook but just took the judging class this weekend. They taught us that taste and appearance are mostly subjective to a point.

 

[ModelMaker]

I judged a contest this past weekend, and was pleasantly surprised to see a Memphis-styled rib in the box. Flavor was great; tenderness perfect, loved the presentation. 9-9-9 for me. I had to shake my head at four of the other judges commenting (after scores were turned in) on how it had no sauce, no sweetness.

I looked on the KCBS site, and of course my score tallied 36. The table average was 30.0895. This is a shame. Now this cook will probably figure it takes sweet to win.

At least he knows one judge appreciated the effort -- I sent him a comment card saying how exceptional the rib was.

Thanks for your opinion, all judges had one, it seems yours was different and and of course the only correct one.
Ed

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Thanks for your opinion, all judges had one, it seems yours was different and and of course the only correct one.
Ed

Snarky, snarky.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

I am a cook but just took the judging class this weekend. They taught us that taste and appearance are mostly subjective to a point.

To a point there is subjectivity. Saltiness and heat tolerance are two obvious ones. I can tolerate a little saltiness; some cannot. I like my Thai food at the 3* level; some only tolerate 1*. I don't like smoke to the point that is overwhelms the taste of the meat.

So yes, there is some subjectivity in judging. It is not a timed event like a 100 m race. But judges should be able to know what outliers are. And by all means, judges should be aware of regional styles, and not mark down an entry because it is 'not my style' of Q. This frustrates cooks and makes judges look bad.

 

[Joe Black]

I am a FORMER judge and really enjoyed the actual judging as well as interaction with the cook teams. Even though I am a purely backyard cooker, that experience helped me a lot with prep to finish.

My experience with the SCBA heirarchy and their politics was a real turn-off for me. So, I am no longer doing any judging and my life is just fine.

 

[DoctorCueNC]

To a point there is subjectivity. Saltiness and heat tolerance are two obvious ones. I can tolerate a little saltiness; some cannot. I like my Thai food at the 3* level; some only tolerate 1*. I don't like smoke to the point that is overwhelms the taste of the meat.

So yes, there is some subjectivity in judging. It is not a timed event like a 100 m race. But judges should be able to know what outliers are. And by all means, judges should be aware of regional styles, and not mark down an entry because it is 'not my style' of Q. This frustrates cooks and makes judges look bad.

I understand that. From what they discussed I think it used to be more where regional issues came into play more. The big thing now like others discussed was that even at the big eastern NC contests if you use a vinegar sauce, which is typical eastern NC bbq you will not win. I feel like KCBS style has become it's own "regional" in that it has a certain majority flavor profile that has been expected.

I feel like something that I've seen said on here a lot has been try to cook to offend the least amount of judges. Some of the comments from people taking the class made me shake my head at the minimal BBQ knowledge they had. Another thing they mentioned was the fact that a lot of people have that Chili's fall off the bone sweet rib as their basis coming into things. I do wish they had spent more time covering the types of bbq that could be and have a little less subjectivity, but I understand how difficult that could be.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

I understand that. From what they discussed I think it used to be more where regional issues came into play more. The big thing now like others discussed was that even at the big eastern NC contests if you use a vinegar sauce, which is typical eastern NC bbq you will not win. I feel like KCBS style has become it's own "regional" in that it has a certain majority flavor profile that has been expected.

I feel like something that I've seen said on here a lot has been try to cook to offend the least amount of judges.

You are spot on. I call it the dumbing down of BBQ. It is the same in the wine world, where I judged for many years. Lovely regional differences are slowly disappearing into the generic palate of competition. Very sad.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

I am a FORMER judge and really enjoyed the actual judging as well as interaction with the cook teams. Even though I am a purely backyard cooker, that experience helped me a lot with prep to finish.

My experience with the SCBA heirarchy and their politics was a real turn-off for me. So, I am no longer doing any judging and my life is just fine.

Joe, you are old enough to know that every organization suffers from the 'big fish, small pond' syndrome. I refuse to get involved in the politics of any organization anymore. Been there, done that. I just enjoy the participation nowadays and ignore the politics.

 

[Pappy Q]

I judged a contest this past weekend, and was pleasantly surprised to see a Memphis-styled rib in the box. Flavor was great; tenderness perfect, loved the presentation. 9-9-9 for me. I had to shake my head at four of the other judges commenting (after scores were turned in) on how it had no sauce, no sweetness.

I looked on the KCBS site, and of course my score tallied 36. The table average was 30.0895. This is a shame. Now this cook will probably figure it takes sweet to win.

At least he knows one judge appreciated the effort -- I sent him a comment card saying how exceptional the rib was.

Well at least they didn't mark down for the phosphates. Or maybe it wasn't enhanced and they all knew that. :crazy:

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Well at least they didn't mark down for the phosphates. Or maybe it wasn't enhanced and they all knew that. :crazy:

Now don't go dragging that phosphate thread in here, ya danged reprobate. :hand:

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I judged a contest this past weekend, and was pleasantly surprised to see a Memphis-styled rib in the box. Flavor was great; tenderness perfect, loved the presentation. 9-9-9 for me. I had to shake my head at four of the other judges commenting (after scores were turned in) on how it had no sauce, no sweetness.

I looked on the KCBS site, and of course my score tallied 36. The table average was 30.0895. This is a shame. Now this cook will probably figure it takes sweet to win.

At least he knows one judge appreciated the effort -- I sent him a comment card saying how exceptional the rib was.

Did you speak to the Rep about this so those judges could get the "judge what''s in the box, not what isn't" talk?

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Did you speak to the Rep about this so those judges could get the "judge what''s in the box, not what isn't" talk?

This problem lies with KCBS. There should be a whole section of training on regional styles. There should be a written and tasting exam to pass to become a certified judge. There should be mandatory continuing education to keep your certification (all of this was required for my certified wine judge). I know that I am tilting at windmills, but maybe someday, in a galaxy far, far away...

 

[BBQchef33]

One of the mantras of a KCBS Cert judge should be JUDGE AS PRESENTED, and painted on each others foreheads so they are reminded every time they look across the table. Unfortunately, far too many enter the tent with preconceived notions of what is to be submitted. For example Ive been dinged for turning in 'skinless' thighs. 1 - its legal, 2 - worse, they were NOT skinless, but scraped to translucent.(thats was decided on a comment card)... Pulled chicken is a big fail too.. etc.

I think, as others have stated, judges need to be 'refreshed', every so often. IMHO, and especially around here.. many judges have become complacent simply because their class was 10 years ago and they get to judge 1,2, maybe 3 contests a year. A mandatory refresher every 2 years would probably help this.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

One of the mantras of a KCBS Cert judge should be JUDGE AS PRESENTED, and painted on each others foreheads so they are reminded every time they look across the table. Unfortunately, far too many enter the tent with preconceived notions of what is to be submitted. For example Ive been dinged for turning in 'skinless' thighs. 1 - its legal, 2 - worse, they were NOT skinless, but scraped to translucent. We don't like translucent dammit -- we want the fat to run on our Che Guevara tee shirts (thats was decided on a comment card)... Pulled chicken is a big fail too.. etc.

I think, as others have stated, judges need to be 'refreshed', every so often. IMHO, and especially around here.. many judges have become complacent simply because their class was 10 years ago and they get to judge 1,2, maybe 3 contests a year. A mandatory refresher every 2 years would probably help this. This should be an absolute minimum.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Did you speak to the Rep about this so those judges could get the "judge what''s in the box, not what isn't" talk?

This problem lies with KCBS.

Yes and the Rep is KCBS at the contest. You didn't answer the question: Did you bring it to the rep's attention? The rule (guideline) is judge what's presented, IMHO judges have an obligation to bring situations like yours (judging what's not in the box) to the reps attention when they happen. If the rep chooses not to address it that's another issue. If we just mutter about it at the contest and complain about it on social media nothing ever gets done. If more judges like you who follow the rules and guidelines spoke up when they see incidents outside those guidlines it would go a long way to getting everyone on the same page.

 

[dosvans]

and KCBS says its a meat contest ,but its really a sauce contest.

I've been hearing/seeing this phrase since I started competing. Please tell me where KCBS says "it's a meat contest". I've seen references to Barbeque contests, but never just meat contest. Now where does it say that Barbeque is just the meat with no rub and/or sauce?

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Yes and the Rep is KCBS at the contest. You didn't answer the question: Did you bring it to the rep's attention? The rule (guideline) is judge what's presented, IMHO judges have an obligation to bring situations like yours (judging what's not in the box) to the reps attention when they happen. If the rep chooses not to address it that's another issue. If we just mutter about it at the contest and complain about it on social media nothing ever gets done. If more judges like you who follow the rules and guidelines spoke up when they see incidents outside those guidlines it would go a long way to getting everyone on the same page.

Did that in the past and was told that I didn't want to become known as a trouble maker. :tsk: