THE BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS

Welcome to The BBQ Brethren Community. Register a free account today to become a member and see all our content. Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

We have already been informed in this thread, that even if we are KCBS members in good standing, if we don't cook at least XX number (exact quantity still to be determined) events a year, then we are mere Casual Cooks, and as such our opinion does not matter.

I honestly don't know if you truly believe what you wrote above, or if you're just trying sarcastically drive a point home. At the risk of stepping into a trap, I'd like to say as an outsider looking in, no such thing was said the way I read it.

It was said that that one would think a "casual cook" would care less about fuel source, and then you argued whether or not you are a casual cook. At one point, some one else guessed that the original person thought that those who cook less have less valuable opinions, but the first person said that wasn't what he meant. I'm not making this up, it's all in the thread. Really. No one said your opinion doesn't matter. What was said, was that those who cook the most complain the least, and that those who complain the most may do it as a built in "excuse" for losing. Never though that I can tell, was your opinion disregarded because you don't compete much. Let's all be honest with ourselves and leave out the finger pointing, eh?

dmp
 
You know, I really don't want to get sucked into an argument here, but it makes no sense to me to say "I'm not trying to win, I'm just here to have a good time, but dammit those of you who are trying to win have to play by my rules."
 
I honestly don't know if you truly believe what you wrote above, or if you're just trying sarcastically drive a point home. At the risk of stepping into a trap, I'd like to say as an outsider looking in, no such thing was said the way I read it.

It was said that that one would think a "casual cook" would care less about fuel source, and then you argued whether or not you are a casual cook. At one point, some one else guessed that the original person thought that those who cook less have less valuable opinions, but the first person said that wasn't what he meant. I'm not making this up, it's all in the thread. Really. No one said your opinion doesn't matter. What was said, was that those who cook the most complain the least, and that those who complain the most may do it as a built in "excuse" for losing. Never though that I can tell, was your opinion disregarded because you don't compete much. Let's all be honest with ourselves and leave out the finger pointing, eh?

dmp

I'm glad somebody read the post correctly. Thank You.
 
Well, this is H I larious!.
All or none! Doesn't matter anyway, they don't train the judges to look for the gas flavor let alone any flavor or taste profile. It is all subjective right!
So behind the steel curtain where the sacred judging takes place, do you really think they are gonna know who prepared on LP, Pellets, Forced Air, Wood, Charcoal or Dehydrayed Cow Turds! No they will not.:tongue:
 
I'd just like to point out that there are still several teams winning on stick burners. Rod Gray, very much a top competitor, moved from pellets to a Jambo. I think the great cooks will continue to win no matter what they are cooking on or what others are cooking on.
 
I believe this as well. It is all about the end product.

I'd just like to point out that there are still several teams winning on stick burners. Rod Gray, very much a top competitor, moved from pellets to a Jambo. I think the great cooks will continue to win no matter what they are cooking on or what others are cooking on.
 
Back on topic, apart from the LP/Propane safety concerns, which I think should be paramount to the decsion, part of KCB$' mission is to " preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form..." To me, this indicates that a certian amount of reverence and respect should be paid to the 'sanctity' of tradition. In this, the key word to me is PRESERVE.
I see no reason why, should the goal be to increase membership, sponsorship, interest and purses, to have a seperate sanctioning arm of KCBS (I think someone previously mentioned a Kansas City Grilling Society) that oversees any fuel, gas, coal, wool, pellets, plutonium, what ever. Heck, that even opens up the possibility for an 'Undisputed' award, a yearly contest that brings together the top teams of the KCBS and KCGS (or what ever)... Just my thoughts.
:thumb:
 
Well, this is H I larious!.
All or none! Doesn't matter anyway, they don't train the judges to look for the gas flavor let alone any flavor or taste profile. It is all subjective right!
So behind the steel curtain where the sacred judging takes place, do you really think they are gonna know who prepared on LP, Pellets, Forced Air, Wood, Charcoal or Dehydrayed Cow Turds! No they will not.:tongue:

Ummm... that one they MAY be able to pick out...:becky:
 
...respect should be paid to the 'sanctity' of tradition.

Sorry man, but the 'sanctity' of tradition has nothing to do with competition BBQ. They have zero in common with each other.

FWIW, I compete on a homemade smoker but I don't think everyone should use one to make it fair.

-Mike
 
Sorry man, but the 'sanctity' of tradition has nothing to do with competition BBQ. They have zero in common with each other.

FWIW, I compete on a homemade smoker but I don't think everyone should use one to make it fair.

-Mike
I mention the part of KCB$' mission stement to " preserve and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form..." as justification for my feeling that the sanctity of BBQ be maintained. Because it is in their mission statement.
 
The dictionary definition above is illuminating. And as TSTP pointed out, the pivotal issue for KCBS is their definition of BBQ.

I don't think gas grilling is any more or less popular now than when I was a kid. My dad was "backward" for using charcoal, and an electric starter to avoid lighter fluid. It seemed like everybody else had shiny steel propane grills suitable for photoshoot-style backyard parties with a manly apron-clad chef balancing a martini while flipping meat products on the grate. In fact, in our part of the country "BBQ" meant anything grilled outdoors. I was old and gray before I learned that in the rest of the country, "barbecue" carried some very particular notions with it.

Some of those deeply ingrained notions are the use of wood or charcoal as a heat source. Perhaps that's why KCBS drew the line there in its definition, maybe at that time and place the thought of anything else was utterly and completely heretical. Certainly the use of wood or charcoal is consonant with tradition; fire management is an art to be mastered. With the use of wood or charcoal, endeavor and experience are rewarded whether the result is awards at a contest or simply a superior product produced at home to the approbation of family and friends.

While inclusivity is often a good thing, its value declines when it dilutes or modifies the very heart of the concept. And yes, the boundaries are fuzzy -- for some the line is drawn at forced draft, or at thermostats, or wherever. But the bottom line, the KCBS definition line as it has existed, is at the use of wood or charcoal.

So for a haggard old bat who grew up thinking that grilling steak or shrimp was BBQ, I have somehow found my heart anchored to the use of wood or charcoal. I'd like to think that there will be more involved than flipping a switch and listening to a hiss and click-click-click-fwoosh. The history, the tradition, the charms and frustrations and satisfaction of "real fire" sucked me in. Do we really think that the masses are incapable of appreciating it, that they will never be capable of anything other than installing a full tank, that we must collect a membership fee, hand them a "participation" ribbon and say "You can be BBQ too"?

I hope not. Yes, there's been a lot of renewed interest in cooking outdoors. I can take a lot of different products and techniques outdoors, and cook them on a propane grill or even over wood or charcoal, and that doesn't make them BBQ. BBQ is more than just the heat source -- it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3".

So while riding that groundswell of interest in outdoor cooking can certainly benefit KCBS, I don't think "capitalizing by capitulating" and allowing propane is in its best interest, or the best interest of its constituents. Many of us have had it drilled into us that it's folly to "dilute the brand" or alienate your core group. This issue feels like both, frankly.

It is my hope that KCBS will stand by its core concept. It has weathered teapot-tempests over garnish, and scoring, and technological additions, and myriad other things; but the center, the definition of fuel source, has held. That link with history has been maintained, even if the face of modern BBQ is somewhat changed. Let's not let that last vestige of tradition slip away.


To the guys who really are passionate about embracing the change that would be allowing gas as a fuel source, please read this above and comment. I cannot think of a better written, better articulated stance on this. Frankly, I cannot write this well.:thumb:

Add in KCBS's mission statement. How does gas as a fuel source fit in to that? Isn't it almost by definition contrary?:doh:


Me, when I compete, I compete for the enjoyment of competition. I guess that defines me as a casual competitor, and I fit that description except I/we dont come to drink beer/bourbon; we always bring our A game. That's why I say, from that competitor in me, I couldn't give a rat's behind whether they allow gas or not. I wont use it. Those that do, great and good luck to them.

BUT, from the barbecue judge inside me, the guy that's passionate about barbecue itself, the art of it, as Diva said " it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3"", that part of me is, frankly, insulted that they'd even humor such a crazy idea. Make it KCGS (for Kansas City Grilling Society) and lets go on. Change the name, modify the mission statement, bring on gas, lets rock!

Or, not.
 
Last edited:
To the guys who really are passionate about embracing the change that would be allowing gas as a fuel source, please read this above and comment. I cannot think of a better written, better articulated stance on this. Frankly, I cannot write this well.:thumb:

Add in KCBS's mission statement. How does gas as a fuel source fit in to that? Isn't it almost by definition contrary?:doh:


Me, when I compete, I compete for the enjoyment of competition. I guess that defines me as a casual competitor, and I fit that description except I/we dont come to drink beer/bourbon; we've always bring our A game. That's why I say, from that competitor in me, I couldn't give a rat's behind whether they allow gas or not. I wont use it. Those that do, great and good luck to them.

BUT, from the barbecue judge inside me, the guy that's passionate about barbecue itself, the art of it, as Diva said " it's traditional fuels, and traditional foods, and a legacy of understanding both intimately under varying conditions, not just following a recipe saying "turn your grill's dial to number 3"", that part of me is, frankly, insulted that they'd even humor such a crazy idea. Make it KCGS (for Kansas City Grilling Society) and lets go on. Change the name, modify the mission statement, bring on gas, lets rock!

Or, not.


To what's in red...How is that different than filling a charcoal basket, plugging in and hooking up a stoker or guru, and setting the thermostat for a desired temp? Or better yet, plugging in a Trager, turning it on, and setting the thermostat? Are wood pellets considered "traditional fuels" just because they are made from compressed saw dust?


Although I agree with what Diva very eloquently wrote to a large degree, I also feel that KCBS started going down this slippery slope when they started allowing all of the gadget's and pellet cookers.
 
It is a slippery slope, for certain. I'm not going to defend earlier decisions, especially those I disagree with, but they are made and so be it. The difference, to me, is that this one hasn't been made. There's perhaps a line in the sand to be drawn (on this slippery slope), and perhaps this is it. I hope so.
 
^^^^ I agree with the above statement. I think KCBS cmpetitions have already passed the threshold of "traditional". We are using computerized air flow controllers, pellet poopers, digital thermometers, complex chemical injections, and even computer programs in different forms. Most of the people that I know, who are cooking with stick burners religiously, will use any technology available (other than another heat source) to be more competitive. We passed "traditional" long ago whether we will admit it or not. I hope the tradition and art of smoking with wood remains with us forever, and I think it will regardless if gas is allowed or not.
 
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?
 
Interesting, and for the most part civil, debate. There are a few primary issues that continue to stand out, and if you feel I've missed something important please let me know:becky:

1) Safety is a concern for some/many. Got it.
2) Some define BBQ as a product, and others believe that it's a process.
2a) For those defining it as a process, equipment becomes a very important part of their reasoning in some cases.
3) Somebody is going to be upset, no matter what happens.

Does that oversimplify the issue?

I think ya nailed it!!!:becky::thumb:
 
Just to be clear on where I stand ont he issue, I really don't care either way if they allow gas or not, as long as the safety issues are addressed properly. I'm just getting into the world of competitive cooking as last year was my first full year for the most part. And I think that I did pretty well (all things considered) with my stick burner my first year out. And I used no special gadgets other than a thermometer. I don't plan on changing my approach any time soon either. But I also feel that if the line has already been blurred, you really can't stop from erasing it.

But my question still hasn't been answered...Did KCBS give the membership body and their opinions and feelings this much validity when it was decided to allow forced draft air systems and pellet cookers?
 
Back
Top