Sam's Club Invitational

[Butcher BBQ]

You the official Sam's Club meat spokesperson?

Nope just years of pay checks from them you gain a lot of company culture.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

I'm not sure doing it this year was the best idea. I'd rather see it late in the season, maybe a warm climate in mid-November with more time to plan and market to teams. Then, not only would you have a late season championship for the teams who've hung in for the long haul, you would have a perfect setting to cap off potentially tight ToY races just like last year. What was in Arizona in 2009 that came down to the final contest, would be this big time KCBS backed event with all the top teams! Could it get any better? I firmly believe we need a playoff system in this... oops! Wrong sport! Was thinking college football! This is a great idea and has tons of potential. How they're doing it for year one is not bad though! Thanks to Sam's and KCBS for getting this together! We might re-consider Excelsior Springs if this takes flight...

 

[Plowboy]

You gotta look at it from Sam's Club's perspective. A BBQ contest in November makes no sense for them when all of the seasonal BBQ stuff is put away and their clubs are full of Christmas items. Middle of summer matches their business objectives. Makes sense to me.

 

[Jorge]

The location looks like they picked something fairly close to half way between east and west coasts.

Unless I'm mistaken Sam's is also the title sponsor for the TOY race. A mid season invitational event with some $$ makes sense. Whoever finishes on top at the end of the year is going to get paid it seems, so the teams that are still standing at the end of the season get some $$. Teams that start the season earlier, and don't cook later in the year still have a shot at some $$ this way.

Looks like a pretty good start to me.

 

[Scottie]

If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.



Just some thoughts...

 

[Jorge]

If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.

Just some thoughts...

I don't know where the $25k in August is coming from. Since I haven't heard that included in the BoD podcasts, and I think that would require a vote, I'm guessing it's from Sam's and/or other sponsors.

 

[Plowboy]

If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.

Just some thoughts...

KCBS TOY and Invitational are apples and oranges when it comes to Sam's money. Plus, I'm betting we don't yet know all of the ways that KCBS members will benefit from the sponsorship. Money for an event and TOY race are probably only part of it.

I do agree about using a mid year TOY ranking for an invitational.

 

[Arlin_MacRae]

Sweet. That's about five minutes from us. FINALLY, a local comp.

 

[Scottie]

No matter which way you want it spun. The majority of the society will not get a monetary benifit. It will only be a very low percentage of KCBS members.

And I don't believe it is apples and oranges. Especially after listening to the BOD meetings. While they did not specifically say an amount. You can only summize that it is a good amount, with all the hands that are in the cookie jar...

Why would using a half way through the season points for TOY be a good measuring point for TOY? It fluctuates from week to week. While the top 10 might just move positions. Teams that are in the 25-100 range can drastically change from week to week.

Lastly. Whose points do you use? KCBS does not keep track of all it's members for points. So could a team be left off by a clerical error? Or do you use Pickled Pig stats and just admit that this KCBS way of measuring TOY is so 1990's....

 

[deena]

Too bad they are not including other sanctioning organizations like the AR and Jack. Not many of us in the Pacific Northwest cook in KCBS event. We are almost all PNWBA events.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

While not perfect, I think you guys are looking at this way too negatively. It's a start towards something that could be great eventually. Let's just wait and see what happens with it. I'm just excited there are new things popping up.

 

[Scottie]

Jeff, FWIW I am not looking at it negatively. I am all for advancement of our hobby. But to me, this only benefits a select few and I do not know how this is good for the rest of the society? How are those folks that cook one contest a year by 6/30 will feel about it? How would you feel if you only cooked 9 contests and were short by 2 points in the TOY because you didn't get a 10th qualifying contest in?

I guess I am looking at it with a different angle than just a top 50 team. Granted it is my choice this year to not cook 25-30 contests. I don't think that should be a requirement to get some additional recognition from our sanctioning body.

 

[Candy Sue]

Jeff, FWIW I am not looking at it negatively. I am all for advancement of our hobby. But to me, this only benefits a select few and I do not know how this is good for the rest of the society? How are those folks that cook one contest a year by 6/30 will feel about it? How would you feel if you only cooked 9 contests and were short by 2 points in the TOY because you didn't get a 10th qualifying contest in?

I guess I am looking at it with a different angle than just a top 50 team. Granted it is my choice this year to not cook 25-30 contests. I don't think that should be a requirement to get some additional recognition from our sanctioning body.

Using that logic, how many teams are left out of TOY by not cooking 10 contests? Used to be under the old system, just 5 best contests in each category and OL used to compute TOY. If a team cooked 10 contests and did great at 5 of them, they might be in the running for TOY. Not possible now.

 

[Scottie]

well, I guess it wasn't just logic on my part. I remember when that whole TOY deal from 5 to 10 contests was going down. and I beleive again last year, teams were in a uproar over it. They wanted different divisions, et al. for KCBS TOY. I am not sure how this is placating those teams now? To me, that is a bigger wedge being driven?

I have always felt that KCBS is not driven by a few teams, but by the whole KCBS as a whole. Meaning their is a bigger voice of smaller teams than a select few. I think money is making some blind to what we (KCBS) are really all about.

 

[Candy Sue]

... I think money is making some blind to what we (KCBS) are really all about.

And what is KCBS all about for you? Does the mission statement encompass that meaning? KCBS is made up mostly of judges, does that effect what KCBS is about? :crazy: I think I'm thinking way too much today!

 

[Scottie]

Honestly Candy, I am not even sure if KCBS works by the Mission statement anymore. Money is making a lot of decisions now. And to use judges as an example... then I would think that if that is the case, then we should be changing the by-laws for elections, et al. that effect cooks v. effecting the "others" of KCBS. We know we aren't going to do that, just like this deal with Sam's Club isn't going to change. while I understand that KCBS is made up of a majority of Judges. It is also made up of a lot of cooks. I believe the last figure I saw was at least 2500+ cooks. So to use that logic... This will effect approximately 2% of the KCBS cooks. 50 divided by 2500... So for these decisions to be made for 2% of the KCBS cooks? I'll stand by what and how my thinking goes.

People "thinking" is a good thing. I like thinking outside of the box, as it also brings discussion. Discussion also brings new ideas, which can lead to good changes. I am not saying this to be a thorn in the BOD side. I am trying to open discussion and to speak from another side than just top teams. I've been on that other side of the fence longer than I have been on this side of the fence. Again, that is by my choice. But to exclude a majority, I am not sure if that is prudent either. And for the record, I will support whatever decision the BOD makes. That is why we elected you all.

 

[Finney]

You know, Sam's might have come in and flashed their money and said "This is what we want you to do to get it".

 

[Smokin' Joe]

I think we are over thinking this a bit. I believe that Sams wanted to do a Comp and wanted to make it special/exclusive but do it on sort of a test scale to get their feet wet. To accomplish this they needed a system to select the teams that would get an invitation...they could have just picked some teams with name recognition, instead they picked the TOY rankings with a cutoff date. This isn't going to replace the TOY, this isn't to slight anyone, it was simply a way to make their event an invitational (why maybe another question)

FWIW I am likely to be one of those teams just out of the top 50 with 7 contests after this weekend, is it perfect? No, but at least this way I had a shot, had they picked "big name" teams I wouldn't have even gotten a sniff. I'm sure it will get better in years to come, but I say give it a chance....my $.02

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Scottie, for that matter, look at all of the teams the Royal and Jack leave out of even consideration. There are close to 100 teams competing in the AR Invitational, give or take. And there were over 4,000 teams competing last year. The Jack is even more exclusive. I don't hear of anyone having a problem with that. Those two invitationals combined may serve 5% of the teams competing in KCBS sanctioned events. I'd imagine there will be a better system in place if this thing grows wings and takes off. But for now, it is what it is. And no, I'm not saying that because of where we are currently. I'd feel the same way if we weren't. And I wouldn't have been disappointed if it had been decided to initiate this in 2011 even though we darned sure won't be in this position this time next year.

Maybe, though, this IS the best way to do it because as has been said, the top 50 as it stands right now will likely be very different at the end of the year. Maybe this is a chance for the teams who won't be there in November and lets them get a shot at some recognition and a shot at the big boys in a head to head competition.

 

[Plowboy]

Scottie, for that matter, look at all of the teams the Royal and Jack leave out of even consideration. There are close to 100 teams competing in the AR Invitational, give or take. And there were over 4,000 teams competing last year. The Jack is even more exclusive. I don't hear of anyone having a problem with that. Those two invitationals combined may serve 5% of the teams competing in KCBS sanctioned events. I'd imagine there will be a better system in place if this thing grows wings and takes off. But for now, it is what it is. And no, I'm not saying that because of where we are currently. I'd feel the same way if we weren't. And I wouldn't have been disappointed if it had been decided to initiate this in 2011 even though we darned sure won't be in this position this time next year.

Maybe, though, this IS the best way to do it because as has been said, the top 50 as it stands right now will likely be very different at the end of the year. Maybe this is a chance for the teams who won't be there in November and lets them get a shot at some recognition and a shot at the big boys in a head to head competition.

AR Invitational was 126 last year. Just saying. :thumb: