Pro Teams at Amatuer contests

[BBQchef33]

Sorry, i too have to disagree.. there are no hard and fast lines drawn to what defines a pro, so anyone can show up anywhere...

If an organizer wants to make an event amateur, he should specifiy something to narrow it down.

"First time teams only"
"Less than n contests under your belt"
'cooked less than n contests in the last 12 months".. anythign to specify thast he wants only beginners.

Whatever...

now keep in mind that many of us, the first time out to a contest still have been cooking for 10-15-20 years, prior to hitting the circuit.. are THEY amateurs.. i think not. Some first time teams can clean the clocks of many seasoned chefs. there are no dividing lines.. and more importantly, as it has been said 100's of times here..

Anyone can win, on ANY given Day.


WE kind of discussed this a while back, different, but the same..


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716599&highlight=pro+judging#post716599

Start at post #120... it discusses what folks thinks of "professional" tags.

My take on it.. Heres an excerpt from one of my posts when(conversly of your point), a member here though he was a "pro" because he took a walk. Different case, same point though.

2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.

After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.

 

[Lake Dogs]

^^^ I do understand if an organizer tries to limit the field, and that's surely up to them if that's what they want to do. But truly the devil is in the details. What IS and isn't a "Pro" team; what is and isn't an accomplished team, for that matter what is and isn't an accomplished barbecue cook, or an accomplished meat cook (as in the earlier examples). It's tough. A great steak cook doesn't mean you're worth a darn at barbecue. Reverse too; I had to explain to an organizer locally who basically begged me to compete in their steak cookoff that my smoker doesn't cook steaks; steaks cooked at 250 degrees are AWEFUL. I digress.

That's why there are basically accomplished barbecue cooks and not-nearly-as-accomplished barbecue cooks; there really aren't pro's and amateurs. AND, just because you haven't won a contest doesn't mean you cant beat Myron or Scottie. Go out and compete. Beat 'em!

 

[Dr_KY]

What if a 'professional team' takes consistent DAL's or very close to the bottom of the scoring table every time they go out should they still not compete in amateur events?

 

[Lake Dogs]

Poob, while the guys you mentioned are certainly barbecue professionals and accomplished competitors, one could argue easily that as their sole and primary source of incomes aren't from contest winnings that they aren't "Pro" competitors. Pro barbecue guys, yes, but not pro competitors... I'm not sure if there are any pro competitors, are there? Myron and most of the others derive their incomes from all over, being books, and TV, sponsorships, selling equipment, and barbecue joints...

 

[Ford]

Like Phil said, what defines a "pro"? At a minimum I'd say winning a GC in a sanctioned contest. But even then a person could get lucky in their first contest (it has happened) and then not win again. So would they be a pro?

Now as to the team that cooked a local contest using their "business name" I think that's just good business for them. Doesn't matter as long as they were within the rules for entering then they did nothing wrong. Getting the local trophy is great advertising.

What I will say is coming on here crying poor me is probably not cool. Man up and cook against whoever shows up. Prove your the best. Be proud of what you cook and if it comes in first, second or DAL so be it.

 

[YankeeBBQ]

As the great Charlie Sheen would say WHINING ! err ah wait no that's not what he would say. Where's the damn delete button.....:icon_blush:

 

[Scottie]

I was thinking about this the other day. There's a KCBS contest near my house this weekend that I can't cook because I'm between smokers. I thought about bringing my one WSM and doing the amateur rib cook, but I figured it wouldn't be worth all the crap I'd get from the KCBS teams that I'm used to cooking against. I only wanted to do it to have some fun, and I'm not a pro by any stretch, but it still didn't feel right. Now, if there was not a KCBS event going on, and it was billed as an amateur or whatever rib cook, I would do it.

Why didnt you ask for a smoker, i could have loaned you one. AND we wouldnt of made that much fun of you... especially if you didnt win the amateur contest....
:shocked:

 

[TN_BBQ]

I've been to contests that spelled out what a pro team is......a team that has competed in a 4 meat contest or other similar contest not considered a amateur contest. I'm not a pro by any means but I would not enter a amateur contest even if the rules didn't specify. Just my opinion.

There's a local one around here that simply says teams can't enter any category that they've won at a sanctioned event.

Pretty much only grand championship teams would be totally excluded. It would put them out of the running for this local event grand championship race, but I guess they could enter the other categories.

I personally don't have any problem with any of it, so long as the rules are clear (adjectives like "amateur" are way too vague). Then it is up to me to decide what I want to do.

Another thing. I suspect they have room on their board of directors for folks that want to volunteer their time to make their event a success.

 

[drbbq]

There are some imaginary classes of Amateur and Pro that some seem to really think are important. Unfortunately unless the organizer does it there really are no such designations. There probably should be but it's just another thing on a long list of KCBS things that just never get fixed.

 

[YankeeBBQ]

There are some imaginary classes of Amateur and Pro that some seem to really think are important. Unfortunately unless the organizer does it there really are no such designations. There probably should be but it's just another thing on a long list of KCBS things that just never get fixed.

This contest had nothing to do with KCBS. In fact if KCBS knew about it they probably would have threatened to sue the contest because all of the teams cooked chicken, ribs, pork and brisket.

 

[BBQchef33]

Poob, while the guys you mentioned are certainly barbecue professionals and accomplished competitors, one could argue easily that as their sole and primary source of incomes aren't from contest winnings that they aren't "Pro" competitors. Pro barbecue guys, yes, but not pro competitors... I'm not sure if there are any pro competitors, are there? Myron and most of the others derive their incomes from all over, being books, and TV, sponsorships, selling equipment, and barbecue joints...

just picked some big names to make the point. And most of them i think make the living in the world of BBQ, I include sponsorships, restaurateurs, books, tv.. all that stuff in addition to cooking.. IMO, those are the professionals, and honestly, it should have nothing to do with entering a contest. I can see some of them so heavily involved in all aspects of BBQ but not competing. Does that make them LESS of a professional? (I guess that can be a different debate)..

 

[AZScott]

I find it odd that amateur teams wouldn't want to see how they stack up against teams that compete in a fun local contest. In AZ we have started having small fun contests that could be considered amateur but everyone is invited to participate. They are set up to include a competition meat along with something like best burger so although competitors have a leg up on the comp meats it's anyone's game on the other category.

My opinion has always been that given an easy comp versus a competition where I fully expect awesome teams to trample me, I'm picking the one with the toughest competition. Winning is awesome but I have found that getting my butt handed to me is an incredibly positive experience. When my butt's handed to me at a comp with great teams, the words they said during our talks or after they tried my food is worth gold.

 

[drbbq]

This contest had nothing to do with KCBS. In fact if KCBS knew about it they probably would have threatened to sue the contest because all of the teams cooked chicken, ribs, pork and brisket.

Fine but if KCBS had some good criteria for this I'd bet a lot of people would use it as their baseline.

 

[Dr_KY]

Didn't Mista step on the scene with a drum and walked over some well known / professional teams? For me it's not the banners,sponsors, equipment or history it's the challenge of shooting for the dig dogs that I would love.

 

[Capn Kev]

I understand what you guys are saying, I just wouldn't do it. The contest had no sanctioning entity behind it and wasn't affiliated with any BBQ association. Just seems like the pro athlete coming to high school practice to boost his ego to me.

Please give us some specifics... What type of comp was it? Where was the comp? What was the payout? ...and what "pro" team showed up? Frankly, if the limitations are not defined, I can see it happening every time. Also, how do you define "pro"? I've cooked in 14 or so "professional" comps. I have yet to make any type of profit. I've had about $5,000 in winnings, but my costs to compete in the 14 contests far exceed that amount. The only reason I do comps is to a) improve my skills, b) meet new friends, and c) build my reputation because I'm starting a BBQ restaurant/catering company.

 

[CarolinaQue]

As the great Charlie Sheen would say WHINING ! err ah wait no that's not what he would say. Where's the damn delete button.....:icon_blush:

No "WHINING" here...I just don't think that some one that has cooked on the circuit for 3 years consistantly and 5 years collectively should classify themselves as "amateur" and compete in a contest that references "amateur contest" as being the focus of it.

Like they say, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Maybe I just have different ethics?

 

[CarolinaQue]

Please give us some specifics... What type of comp was it? Where was the comp? What was the payout? ...and what "pro" team showed up? Frankly, if the limitations are not defined, I can see it happening every time. Also, how do you define "pro"? I've cooked in 14 or so "professional" comps. I have yet to make any type of profit. I've had about $5,000 in winnings, but my costs to compete in the 14 contests far exceed that amount. The only reason I do comps is to a) improve my skills, b) meet new friends, and c) build my reputation because I'm starting a BBQ restaurant/catering company.

No names need to be mentioned. Not here to trash the person or the team.

In regards to your analogy. If someone has to take out a business loan to start a business, do they consider themselves a "professional" before or after they pay off those loans? My point being, does making a profit constitute being a professional?

 

[CarolinaQue]

Like Phil said, what defines a "pro"? At a minimum I'd say winning a GC in a sanctioned contest. But even then a person could get lucky in their first contest (it has happened) and then not win again. So would they be a pro?

Now as to the team that cooked a local contest using their "business name" I think that's just good business for them. Doesn't matter as long as they were within the rules for entering then they did nothing wrong. Getting the local trophy is great advertising.

What I will say is coming on here crying poor me is probably not cool. Man up and cook against whoever shows up. Prove your the best. Be proud of what you cook and if it comes in first, second or DAL so be it.

I'm not crying poor me. I didn't cook in the contest.

 

[Fishiest1]

I can see where the Carolinaque is coming from, most here certainly would not enter backyard having that kind of experience. It might not be written in the rules but everything doesn't have to be either. Something are just right and others are wrong with out there being definitions. JMO

 

[MilitantSquatter]

Just curious... Is this the contest I think that is being referred to

........ Mann's Orchard's Smoke Off ??

http://www.mannorchards.com/1_14_Johnny-Black-BBQ-Smoke-Off.html

Both the contest sign in link above and the text state open to both amateur and professionals...

I'm confused

This event will be held on Saturday, May 22nd and Sunday, May 23rd at Mann Orchards in Methuen, MA. This BBQ smoke off is open to all amateur and professional barbeques in our area.



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