The turn-in window

[ique]

When I finally told YankeeBBQ the story a couple of weeks ago he looked at it a little differently. He suggested it might have been the right table......

A 13th and a 1st overall at the Royal is definitely a good table!

 

[Sledneck]

I'm not sure if this supports or contradicts your experience:

Royal Invitational this past year. We get the chicken box to turnin, and I see the ISS!! box going in. In my mind I was thinking about some of their struggles with chicken, and decided that might not be a bad table to be on.... We got 13th, just for Sled....and I Smell Smoke!! won chicken. I've wondered how that chicken might have fared otherwise.

When I finally told YankeeBBQ the story a couple of weeks ago he looked at it a little differently. He suggested it might have been the right table......

A 13th and a 1st overall is definitely a good table!

I dont think the table or the timing had anything to do with that

 

[Divemaster]

I like to be towards the begining of the turn in time... I usually try to get my runner going within a minute of when it opens... That way if I have a problem I have a couple of minutes to correct it....

In every event I have judged, the only meat that is even patially warm is the chicken. If you have ever judged, you will understand why. First, your boxes are delivered and sorted and then taken to the table for viewing. Next, the box is opened and all the judges get a chance to take a good look to judge on appearance. Stuff is already getting cold. Then each judge takes a piece and puts on their judging mat. They repeat this process six times before they take the first bit. Anything sitting on that judging mat for that long, except for a thigh, is cold. I think the winning teams know their entries will be tasted virtually cold and select a flavor profile accordingly.

One thing I've always found amusing . . . some teams build their turn-boxes on Friday night, then put in coolers to keep the garnish fresh and crisp. Then they take them out just before putting the hot meat in them.
Wouldn't this in itself cool the meat quite a bit?

This is something that I may not have taken as seriously as I should have. Next practice cook I'm building the boxes the night before, storing in the fridge, and letting the meat sit in them for 15 minutes and then taste it...

While I have had my food cold, I don't recall trying it 'cool'... That could be where the profile is off...

 

[stlgreg]

So you're telling me that the boxes go to the judges in order of how their turned-in?:shock: If you ask me (and you probably aren't), but shouldn't it be more random, to keep teams from going through this whole strategization-handin'-their-meat-in-behind-other-good-teams-or-not-thing.

Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding this, so I apologize for this if I am, but it could be as simple as first turn-in goes to table 1, 2, 3, 4, n, then once every table has their first box the order gets randomly changed so the first box goes to 2, 4, 1, n, 3 etc. The way I am interpreting it getting done, seems to give teams at least a minuscule chance of controlling the outcome by counting the turn-ins--which seems silly.

Or is this why they changed the rule this year on the order in which judges receive each box?

From what i have seen the first 6 boxes go to a table then the next 6, etc. There is care taken to make sure the same table does not get the the same team's entry more than once - sometimes it is just unavoidable.
boxes are swapped back and forth from table captain to table captain (unless the rep does it)

From my prespective, logistically, it would be very hard to do what you are asking.

 

[Chipper]

In the chili world the cups are to be mixed up to avoid the "seasoned" cooks form being on the same table(s).
I'd think that the same would apply to bbq, no? If not, there would be an advantage to where you are in line, I'd think. I will be doing my first comp in a couple of months, and this is a very interesting topic.

Thanks

 

[Alexa RnQ]

Best jockeying over turn-in time I ever had was at a comp last fall, at chicken turn-in, where I saw a buddy drop out of line for the table when I approached. I flat-out shamed him and told him to nut up and get back in line. He beat us in chicken that day, it was their very first first-place chicken ever, and I had a fine time yelling as loud as I could for them at awards. :mrgreen:

 

[Brew-B-Q]

Even if you land at the same table as a top cook, it doesn't necessarily mean their food will get tasted before yours. I was taught you had to score one piece and then move on. Meaning, if the best piece is last, that wouldn't have any negative effect on the other 5, even if the judges are comparing, which of course they aren't supposed to do

 

[musicmanryann]

At my CBJ class what my teacher hammered into us was not to compare each turn-in, and I understand that you shouldn't. I also found that not comparing entries was the hardest thing to do. As I tried judging in our mock contest. I think the comparing thing comes into play hwne you have a bunch of non-CBJ's judging turn-ins. To me, comparing is a natural behavior, especially when one is inexperienced and there is no set rubric for scoring every category.

 

[The Giggler]

I've table captained at an event with 40 teams or so. The boxes are accumulated in groups of 6 as they are turned in, and then go to the table #1 for judging. As six more boxes come in, they go to table #2. And so on. This keeps things moving.

The tables are set up so that the order is switched. For example, if table #1 were the first to receive turn in boxes, then they might be last for the next entry. This mixes things up.

 

[Lakeside Smoker]

I turn my box in when it's ready. I defiantly don't need another thing at a comp to over analyze!

 

[KC_Bobby]

Word that and land at the same table as whoever happens to hit the same tray as it may

I just prefer to be on the front end of the window

Although, I've always wondered if having a lower entry number is an advantage because you wouldn't have to worry about being compared to others since the lowest number at each table is judged first.

 

[musicmanryann]

I've table captained at an event with 40 teams or so. The boxes are accumulated in groups of 6 as they are turned in, and then go to the table #1 for judging. As six more boxes come in, they go to table #2. And so on. This keeps things moving.

The tables are set up so that the order is switched. For example, if table #1 were the first to receive turn in boxes, then they might be last for the next entry. This mixes things up.

Now I understand--this makes more sense. Thanks! I just wonder if there is would be a way to keep things moving, but at the same time change things up a little in order to prevent teams from strategizing who they go head-to-head with, even if it makes little difference in real life. On the other hand ff seasoned, professional teams are doing it such as Smokin' Triggers, perhaps there is something to it. I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but this discussion intrigues me.:smile:

 

[musicmanryann]

Word that and land at the same table as whoever happens to hit the same tray as it may

I just prefer to be on the front end of the window

Although, I've always wondered if having a lower entry number is an advantage because you wouldn't have to worry about being compared to others since the lowest number at each table is judged first.

Now I know KCBS changed this rule this year, so now your first entry could be 123, 2nd--119, 3rd 124 and so on. They found there was a statistically significant correlation between scores and number order at the table, that is why they changed it.

 

[The Giggler]

Now I understand--this makes more sense. Thanks! I just wonder if there is would be a way to keep things moving, but at the same time change things up a little in order to prevent teams from strategizing who they go head-to-head with, even if it makes little difference in real life. On the other hand ff seasoned, professional teams are doing it such as Smokin' Triggers, perhaps there is something to it. I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but this discussion intrigues me.:smile:

Next time you visit a contest, be sure to see the Judges Tent. There's not a heck of a lot of space there. By accumulating 6 boxes, and delivering to a table, keeps the boxes moving and not sitting around waiting for the 6th box before heading off to the judges table.

Besides, if you had 48 teams, and 8 tables, and first team to turn in went to table #1, and the second team to turn in went to table #2, and so on until all 48 teams had turned in and there were 6 boxes for the 8 tables of judges. Would you want to be team #1 to turn in, and need team #41 to turn in their box before your table of judges received 6 boxes for turn in? I wouldn't....

My experience as a table captain was at a less than 50 team contest. As a competitor, I was really surprised how efficient the whole affair was.

 

[paydabill]

I guess, I try to hit the front of the window. I do not knwo if Brian ever looks around to see who turns in with them.I just do not want to make Brian run if we are late. He is smoker, he might pass out.

 

[QDoc]

So you're telling me that the boxes go to the judges in order of how their turned-in?:shock: If you ask me (and you probably aren't), but shouldn't it be more random, to keep teams from going through this whole strategization-handin'-their-meat-in-behind-other-good-teams-or-not-thing.

Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding this, so I apologize for this if I am, but it could be as simple as first turn-in goes to table 1, 2, 3, 4, n, then once every table has their first box the order gets randomly changed so the first box goes to 2, 4, 1, n, 3 etc. The way I am interpreting it getting done, seems to give teams at least a minuscule chance of controlling the outcome by counting the turn-ins--which seems silly.

Or is this why they changed the rule this year on the order in which judges receive each box?

Well I don't have the time to enter many contests but in those I have, I have noticed many of the name teams located next to the turn-in site.
My questioning nature leads me to believe this not to be a phenomenon of random selection. I have heard others speak of an advantage gained by some of these teams by turning in their entry along with some unknowns.
This is interesting and while I have expressed my concern, I know of no effort on KCBS part to make the entries given to the tables in a more random process.

 

[Alexa RnQ]

Well I don't have the time to enter many contests but in those I have, I have noticed many of the name teams located next to the turn-in site.

Was this a contest at which there were assigned spaces? Were those spaces assigned by order of entries received, or some other process? Or was it unassigned spots and simply a matter of the experienced teams knowing to get there early to get the spots they want?

I don't see an issue here, frankly. Any team can have their entry ready at any part of the window, and enter their box whenever they see fit. We've won when we've been close to turn-ins, and we've won when we've been located at the ass-end of the field.

 

[KC_Bobby]

Some things I've noticed about turn in as a competitor and judge:

As a competitor:
Small comps fill up a tray, change numbers and pass it on to a table capt
Mid size comps might have more then one tray to fill at the peak of turn in, so who knows if Joe or Sally is going to grab your turn in and put it on the left or right tray.
Large comps like the Royal - just get in line and hand it to the first person who grabs it. They could put it on any number of trays.

As a judge/table capt:
We've been told/instructed not to have the same box number (team) be judged at our table for more then one category. Thus, chicken is the only guarantee that would not switch trays. Buy the time brisket gets turned in, the last 2-3 trays are waiting for all turn ins to practically eliminate that from happening (trading entries when needed). I've personally traded for an entry then traded it because the next tray had a repeat number. So that box landed on three trays in a matter of 2 minutes.

I guess if a cook wants to play the tray game it's their right, but they may only be playing themselves. Judging already has a number of varibles in it, I personally don't feel like adding in another one myself.

Todd and I turned in pork to the same tray at BS, I remember cause he showed me his butt, I showed him mine. We both got calls. Who knows ... maybe every entry at that table got a call.

 

[Sledneck]

Some things I've noticed about turn in as a competitor and judge:

As a competitor:
Small comps fill up a tray, change numbers and pass it on to a table capt
Mid size comps might have more then one tray to fill at the peak of turn in, so who knows if Joe or Sally is going to grab your turn in and put it on the left or right tray.
Large comps like the Royal - just get in line and hand it to the first person who grabs it. They could put it on any tray.

As a judge/table capt:
We've been told/instructed not to have the same team be judged at our table for more then one catagory. Thus, chicken is the only guarantee that would not switch trays. Buy the time brisket gets turned in, the last 2-3 trays are waiting for all turn ins to practically eliminate that from happening (trading entries when needed).

I guess if a cook wants to play the tray game it's their right, but they may only be playing themselves. Judging already has a number of varibles in it, I personally don't feel like adding in another one myself.

Todd and I turned in pork to the same tray at BS, I remember cause he showed me his butt, I showed him mine. We both got calls.

 

[KC_Bobby]

What can we say, I guess we have appealing butts.