Taste of Grand Rapids BBQ - July 14-15

[HoDeDo]

Congrats on the calls brothers! Jeff, Did you feel naked after you paired down your contest boxes to travel "light"? Did you end up having anything you felt was missing - or are you going to stay with the lighter load?

 

[Smoker]

It is interesting to hear the comments from teams about how the event treated the teams. I think this issue is about to ruin some events. Showers? Now thats something I have not seen here in the North East. I love the idea of a standard judging form for the teams to fill out to be given back to the promoters. This should become a STANDARD at ALL KCBS events and the marks should be posted on the KCBS forum. Fool me once, shame on you Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[SinginBob]

Jeff, congrats on the calls! Are toilet paper and showers really that important?!!

 

[voodoobbqIL]

I agree on the treatment of the teams, the electricity thing turned out to be not as much of a problem for us but we brought a gennie jsut in case. We were setup on a ball field and if they had stated in the packet that the lights on the field would run all night I would not have worried about the electricity as much. There were several other issues including the lack of "relief facilties". I do events for a living and nothing gets folks more upset than no place to take care of business...and even worse not being serviced. Anyway it was a brutal hot weekend and I am thrilled for the Brethren that made it into some awards.

Fresh water and potties for all!!!

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

My email to Rich Berry at Grand Rapids:

Rich,

Jeff Stith from Missouri (Big Creek BBQ) here. I wanted to drop you a note to relate my unfortunate experiences with the TOGR contest this past weekend. I know from the BBQForum.com and the BBQ-Brethren.com Web sites where I participate that you are probably hearing a lot of comments. I hope what I'm going to relate below will be seen as constructive criticism to help improve your contest in future years as I believe it is vitally important to the BBQ community in the Great Lakes region.

First off, what I liked... I loved the venue itself, especially around the large shade trees where we were located. I enjoyed some of the ancillary turn-ins. We competed and did very well in both beans (4th) and sausage (5th). Early quiet hours seemed to be fairly well enforced (or at least respected by the teams I was around). I'm sorry to say, that's about it on the positive side for me. I am going to list the negative side with a few comments...

1. Absolutely HORRIBLE restroom facilities! Not nearly enough and none down on the competitors end. All were up by the TOGR vendor end. By the later evening on Friday, some of these port-a-pots were completely full! One guy told me he was in one where the waste was literally inches from the top! My wife grabbed the only roll of toilet paper in one and it was completely soaked with urine. The permanent restroom building has, as you know, one sit down commode and two urinals. Very little toilet paper was available and the floors were flooded all weekend. There is only one sink and there were NO paper towels there all weekend.

2. Electricity - you need to make it available to everyone. One of the biggest complaints I heard was that vendors had it but not the teams. Are they more important than us? If so, maybe the event should not include a BBQ contest. It would not be a hugely expensive deal to even rent one of those large mobile generators and run cables and boxes around the comp area. The Great American BBQ here in KC did it for over 200 teams on Memorial Day weekend. I'd think any contest could do it for 50 teams.

3. Water and Ice - Water was WAY up by the vendors also. Then some cooks were read the riot act for driving up to get water. I can appreciate the need for safety once the event opens to the public but consider the distance we had to carry HEAVY containers of water! Then when the water buffalo finally showed up on the ballfield, it ran out of water way too quickly. Not good! Many contests in the Missouri/Kansas area where I regularly compete drive around with water to deliver to your site. As far as ice goes, same deal... way too far away and the kid who was selling it copped an attitude with me on Friday afternoon. Told me it was "too warm in the trailer to open the door" to get me ice I needed. I got a little testy over that. I carted $300 worth of meat up from Kansas City and it needed ice! I told him I was going in to get it if he wouldn't. He then decided he'd go get it.

4. Food amenities - Many contests I attend offer something in the morning on Saturday, even if it's free coffee. some offer free biscuits and gravy or donuts. Some make you pay a small fee but at least they're available. without power at our site (or at least adequate power (we had a battery and an inverter), we were unable to use our coffee maker and had to go without except for one cup we bummed off a neighbor who had a generator.

5. Lack of service - It started when we arrived. No one was there to help us get to our space and get settled in. We wandered around for probably 20 minutes before we found anyone. Then only once did I see anyone come by all weekend to see if we needed anything. Twice, we were offered ice and never on Saturday. Our trash built up a long time before anyone arrived to take it away. And until Saturday afternoon, there was no ash disposal can anywhere near us. I never did see a grease can and thus had to take mine with me! I just didn't feel welcome at all... and it didn't help when about the only time anyone came around on the golf cart, it was John basically ordering me to move my van so he could get through better. Then did he come around to actually use the area I vacated? Not that I recall.

6. Awards and Awards Ceremony - It was moved twice, once back, then up again and by the time it actually got started, it was at the original time they had told us. Not good! Too many folks were anxious to get out of there to go home and take cool showers and get some sleep. The ribbons were good... IF you got one between 1st and 5th. I did get a 3rd in pork but my 8th in ribs only says "Honorable Mention". Try to explain THAT to someone looking over your awards ("SURE you got 8th place in ribs.") If you're awarding up to ten places, you should put the place it got on the ribbon. Drop the "Honorable Mention" stuff. It's meaningless! I was aware of the lower payouts beforehand so I really can't complain but to give you some of MY perspective, two weeks before Grand rapids at the Crossroads BBQ Cook-Off at Cameron, Missouri, we won first place in brisket ($400) and 2nd place in pork ($300) for a total of $700. Grand paid $1500 and reserve paid $750. That contest was in a town of about 6,000 people in the middle of nowhere, had only 3 or 4 sponsors (and one was a pest control place who's contribution was spraying the contest area beforehand to kill off all the bugs). There was only 45 teams competing and entry was just $150 each with free electricity. They are also just a second year contest. Next year, with payouts going up even further, I have no doubt they'll push 60 teams. Why? well besides the great service they had, the payout was awesome for a smaller contest! Taste of Grand Rapids had what seemed to be 8 to 10 sponsors and my 3rd place pork got me $75. With only having payouts to three teams per category, I would expect much higher awards than Cameron, Missouri.

I know it probably seems like I'm complaining a lot but my hope is that you and your staff can use some comments you're receiving from myself and others to improve the event for 2007. I know nothing of the event but I'm considering Racine, WI next year instead for a north trip as I just found out their payouts for a 25 team event are incredible. It will depend upon how you all make changes for the TOGR before the next one rolls around. If I can be of any assistance in helping improve your important event or if you have any questions for me, please feel free to let me know. I can be reached at this email or by phone.

Kindest Regards,

Jeff Stith
Big Creek BBQ
Pleasant Hill, Missouri

 

[bbqbull]

Jeff, What an extreemly well written email. If I find Rich Berrys snail mail address I will send him a copy of what I sent to KCBS, regarding some problems at TOGR.

Mike

 

[fnnm358]

Way to go Jeff that is right to the point.
might just have to go to it again next year just to see if it did any good.
Maybe make this my first comp.

 

[voodoobbqIL]

Jeff, good calls all the way around. All of those were bad points and what really got me is that John is a competitor and been in the mix for about 18 years...the Golden Rule Applies even in BBQ.

K

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Apparently I really hacked off Rich with my email. Hated to see it because it was not intended to in the slightest. He said the kid who copped the attitude with me on the ice was his son and he was doing what he was told to do. He closed by saying that he's sorry all I could find positive was the shade trees.

As for the port-a-pots, apparently he used a new company for that service and they failed to uphold their end of the cleaning/maintenance agreement and this we had overflowing pots. Rich said he had already addressed the situation with that company by the time I wrote.

He said he'll take all my comments seriously. I think this email just made it a lock I won't be going back to Grand Rapids. I can only assume the kind of reception I'd receive if I signed up again. But hey, if it makes things better for everyone else, it's a total win situation.

 

[cmcadams]

That's too bad he had to take it personally. You didn't say anything bad there, and they should understand the money that the competitors put into it. I emailed him earlier in the week and have heard nothing from him at all.

Hopefully, things will get better by then... it would be good to have you there again (assuming I go back... which is still possible, due to my teammate having family there). I may just try for Dundee the weekend before, though; it's 2 hours less travel for us, but on a parking lot, I think.

I hate to say it, but I don't know how much Rich cared one way or the other, or he would have apologized instead of defended the ice thing. The first thing should have been to make sure the teams were situated, IMO, as a lot of us traveled a lot to get there. Sorry, but simple organization and planning would have shown that the ice was in a bad spot.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Here's Rich's reply in full:

Dear Jeff:

Wow. Sorry you had such a bad experience at our event. Let me respond to a few things first and I want you to hear my responses in the spirit that they are meant:

I am glad you like our facilities. We drew more than 16,000 people to our event to promote BBQ and food. I think that is pretty good. We are proud of our affiliation with the KCBS and our ability to promote the sport of barbecue. With two of West MIchigan's best radio stations promoting this event, I believe that the BBQ community is pleased to have us on board with them.

1. Regarding restroom facilities: That will change next year. I went with a new company this year and they did not comply with the agreement for cleaning. I have dealt with that situation already. The permanent restrooms at John Ball Park, I am told, will be replaced with new, bigger facilities by next year by the Kent County Parks Services. That should help alot. Health laws in Michigan (and I am sure everywhere) require that restrooms be a minimum of 50 feet from food. That means that we have to place restrooms on the outskirts of where you are. With the heat the way it was, I decided that we needed the bathrooms at least 100 feet away. The Kent County Health Department agreed with that decision. The last thing anyone wants is a smelly bathroom right in the middle of everything.

2. Electricity: We estimate that we would need approximately 4 quiet generators and numerous spider boxes to provide electricity to everyone. In order to do that we would have to double the entry price for each team. We don't want to do that.

3. Ice: Due to the heat it was impossible to keep the refrigerator truck cold with people coming in and out with no order. The kid who "copped an attitude" with you was my son Kevin. He was told to leave the truck closed when the thermostat reached high levels. I apologize if he came off as disrespectful but he did what he was told to do... manage the temperature of the truck. Those were his marching orders, from me. I will look into having an ice truck closer to the BBQ site next year.

4. Coffee and Food: We have had coffee available in the past but it was not utilized. Many teams come well prepared with their specific needs. Until now I have never had complaints from participants. We'll look into it.

5. Lack of Service: This one is a stumper to me. You don't tell me when you arrived but assuming you followed our directions and came to the park properly, you should have had no trouble finding someone to direct you to your area. I had 8 guys working trash non-stop all weekend long and the main thing I heard from people were compliments about the trash. I also don't know where you were situated, so it is possible that your trash was tucked in a corner where it was overlooked. With 16,000 people on site over 2 days, it is my opinion that we did an amazing job with trash. Regarding John Bates telling you to move your van, I will check into that. Assuming it was parked in the confines of your booth, there should not have been a problem. If you were expanding and that prevented him from getting to and from the site, then I can understand why he wanted the van moved.

6. Awards and Ceremony: We'll look into your recommendations about ribbons. The time of the ceremony - which was originally slated for 3 p.m. and moved to 4 p.m. - was done more than a week before the contest. The reason was because one of our national bands needed to get on earlier then we were originally told. Next year it will be at 3 p.m.

I cannot speak for Cameron Missouri and the outstanding job they do with monetary prizes, overall organization, tropies, electricity, etc. Our sponsorships are designed to attract advertisers to our radio stations. They purchased ads on the radio to be a part of this event. The folks in Cameron will tell you that putting on a contest is certainly not a money-maker.

My out of pocket expenses were $10,000 to put on that portion of the event. That includes KCBS fees, tents, trash removal, rental of the park, insurance, tropies, prize money, transportation for contest officials, hotels, etc. That doesn't count the countless number of hours that go into making this an attractive event. Nor does it count the "Taste of GR" portion which included 30 restaurants, 18 bands, sound, lights, generators, etc. In short, it costs a lot of money to put this on.

With that said I will take your suggestions seriously. We work hard to put on an outstanding event. I'm sorry you couldn't find anything more positive than the shade trees.
​

Rich Berry
General Sales Manager
WBCT-FM & WBFX-FM
77 Monroe Center, Suite 1000
Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503
(616) 776-5471 (Direct Line)
FAX: (616) 242-9373
[email protected] ​

 

[Doorbusters]

Farkin radio people! Should have told him the radio stations sucked too!

 

[cmcadams]

I just saw the results are finally on the KCBS site...

And it's great to see my team name up there for the first time!!!

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Congrats, Curt! Yeah, I know the feeling! Every once in awhile, I still go back to the 2005 results page and click on De Soto / Kill Creek Farm to see my first: 10th in chicken!

 

[tonto1117]

Was wondering with all the problems of last years event, how many of you are planning on attending this year.

This will be my first comp, if they haven't improved on any of the problem's of last year, it sounds less then appealing. Oh well it can only get better with other comps I enter in the future,just kinda rots though that my first experience will be with somthing ya'll had such a sucky time at..:roll:

 

[cmcadams]

We'll probably be there. I've been told it should be better run, but mostly my teammate's wife is from there, so it's a family thing for them.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

We aren't going back. There's no point really. Our "travel contest" this year is going to be Dillon, Colorado. But I will be interested to hear from some of you guys who do go to Grand Rapids whether or not anything changed this year. Good luck! Give my regards to Rich.

 

[bbqbull]

I doubt if im going back. Gonna have a heart to heart w/my teammates and get their thoughts.
FWIW I talked to a man last Saturday who competeted their last year and asked about the electricity to the motor homes. I was told that the Sponsors of the contest wanted electricity so.......they got it. When I wrote KCBS......... Then I got a phone call from the promoter responded back to me that nobody had electricity period. Funny how I saw and followed the cords from a friend of mines motor home on the tennis courts who was competing as well. When I talked to the promoter he told me that nobody had electricity.
When the promoter kisses the sponsers butts but seems to give a crap less about the competitors I have a problem w/that.
When we chatted about other things that occured at the contest like cheating by one individual I was told........He is like Lance Armstrong...just hasnt been caught yet. Thats where I get really torqued. Ive filed complaints w/KCBS. The next year they sent to reps. to investigate. Well.............Same person shows up at 7:30 am on Saturday starts his fire and still turns in his food. Not sure if KCBS reps were their to check on that issue last year or not. How can you grill a brisket and all the other meats in 3-6 hours Isnt broiling meats illegal w/KCBS rules?
Jeff I agree w/you the site was beautiful but the parking for us was bad. I was told I couldnt park my truck in the parking lot to the south. Not sure where I was supposed to park it but I left it where it was.
There needs to be some major changes to this contest.

There was quite a bit of talk about last year at our MBBQA meeting last Saturday. Heard that KCBS blasted the promoter and said if they recieved anymore complaints like last year, they wouldnt be KCBS sactioned. Glad they made their point.....and pretty sure things will be much better this year. Rant over from me.
Jeff, The paperwork I was going to fax you dissapeared here. If I ever come acrossed it, it will be on the way to you.

Mike

 

[tonto1117]

Just my farkin luck that the first comp I decide to enter is Taste Of Grand Rapids. Wish I had read this thread before I sent my check in. Since we live in GR and are already commited, we'll make the best of what I hope will be a better situation. Was hoping to meet some of you at the comp. Wish me luck.

 

[bbqbull]

Heck tonto............I really want to shake your hand and meet face to face. I may/could come up and visit even if I dont compete.
Awaiting some emails ect. before I make up my mind.
Talked to one of my team members a bit ago and he would like to compete again......but the known cheater has to be dealt with and other things need to be straightened out and seems everybody is afraid of him.
Jury is still out on this one right now.

Mike