rib help..please..

[CBQ]

Most comp teams foil to put an extra layer of flavor on the ribs. I am not so sure I buy the "steaming takes out flavor" idea.

Use every opportunity to add a layer of flavor.

Rub goes on before smoking.

Add rub, sugar, and anything else that inspires you when you wrap.

When you unwrap, add more rub, sauce, and put 'em back in to set the sauce.

Flavor will be fine.

 

[Boshizzle]

I buy the idea that foiling ribs dilutes their flavor because it does. Yes, concentrating water into anything dilutes flavor. Water is a flavor killer. There is no flavor in water. The idea is to concentrate flavor not dilute it. You concentrate flavor by reducing the amount of water in food. Beef stock reduction, wine reduction, syrups are many times reductions, etc. are made to reduce the amount of water in the food which concentrates flavor. That's also the idea behind aged beef. The moisture in the beef dissipates as the meat ages and that concentrates the beef flavor.

I also am not so sure that most comp teams foil their ribs to add an extra layer of flavor. While you can impart flavor into meat with a marinade or by boiling it in a flavorful broth, eventually, you have to get the meat out of the liquid and in the smoker where the heat begins to caramelize sugars, render fat, and reduce water content which, in turn, concentrates flavor.

Lots of teams foil ribs simply to gain tenderness quicker without excessively drying the outside of the ribs. Sure, moisture is important but too much makes meat bland. Which is why many teams that foil also return the ribs to the smoker after they were in foil to dry them a little and concentrate flavors.

I stand by my statement that the most important thing needed to get good flavor from ribs is proper fat rendering. Salt is a given, but if the fat doesn't properly render for the right amount of time or the fat renders too much, the meat flavor will be bland. The fat inside the meat melts into the meat fibers and spreads flavor and the seasonings into the meat. Foiling ribs can cause water to remove the fat that is needed for flavor.

If your ribs are bland after you have let them sit in rub over night I really don't think the problem is the rub or the length of time they are marinating. Overnight is a long time to marinade ribs and if they are still bland after an overnight sit in rub, I think you need to look elsewhere for a solution. I offered one so, you can try it or just claim I don't know what I'm talking about. But, I have been through the whole "my ribs are bland" thing and the info I posted is what I found to improve my ribs.

The juiciness of meat comes from two thing: the moisture (water) that is released when you bite into meat fibers and the the production of saliva stimulated by the presence of animal fat in your mouth. The water will not hold any flavor. That's the nature of water. The fat will hold flavors; it's own and the flavors in your rub.

 

[Smokedelic]

maybe I should have phrased the question differenty, I am attempting to get a more flavorfull rib as the ones I have been cooking as of late have be almost flavorless. My thought was if the "rub" was able to gain deeper penatration it would help. I was asking for assistance in providing a more flavorfull rib.

Is your post an attempt to assist? Or are you attempting to be critical because I didnt phrase my question in a way you approve? Any assistance is more then welcome.

Ease up...my question was an attempt to clarify. For larger cuts of meat, one usually is concerned about getting flavor deep inside the meat, but I'd never heard that concern with smaller, thinner cuts of meat.

To increase flavor, as others have suggested, add flavors(your rub, sauce, glaze, etc.) later in the cooking process. For instance, take some of your rub, grind it up in a coffee grinder until it's a fine powder, and add a light coat of it to your ribs just before you slice them. The fine powder will dissolve instantly and will give your ribs more "pop".

 

[Smokedelic]

The guy that won ribs at Degaque applied rub (medium amount just covering the meat) 2 hrs prior to going on a 250 degree smoker for 2.5 hrs befor wrapping meat side down for 1 hr. Then saucing & letting the smoker to drop to 220 till turnin.:thumb: Few minor details left out but that's the basics of what he did.

Do you know this for a fact, or are you just spreading rumors??:thumb:

 

[landarc]

I am not so sure I agree with Boshizzle about water holding no flavor, water alone is rather simple and lightly flavored, however, it is an excellent solvent with a little heat added. That being said, water and steam do have a tendency to mute flavors, I believe this is because of water's ability to blend flavors, which removes complexity from the rub and meat. I am in agreement that the primary reason for foiling is to introduce the process of steaming which aids in breaking down both collagen and protein, through the process of using heat to denature the proteins. Done perfectly, this will result in a more moist product, miss by just a few minutes and you have the curious dichotomy of wet yet dry meat. The steam in an enclosed environment is much hotter than the heat you can create without any foil.

 

[Lake Dogs]

We've had pretty good success with ribs in competitions when I've cooked ribs.

First, I use baby backs, and this factors in to many of the decisions. As soon as
we can get meat inspected I remove the membranes and then immerse them in a
cool mixture of apple juice, worchestershire and water. They'll stay overnight, and
I keep a little ice on them all night. About 2 hours before going on the smoker I
take them out, pat them dry a little, and then apply our rub on both sides fairly
liberally (we have no sugars in our rub). On the smoker (250 degrees) for an hour
and a half. We spritz twice, a mixture of apple juice and worchestershire. At 90
minutes we foil them and apply the last heavy spritz. I keep them in another 3 hours
on foil. We've had success with both presenting just like this (sans sauce) or a small
amount of our sauce (that works well with the rub and apple juice) for the last 3
minutes on heat. The apple juice has helped break down and render the fats as well
as has enough sugar in it to give our ribs a nice sweet and hot (spice) balance.

 

[Boshizzle]

I am not so sure I agree with Boshizzle about water holding no flavor, water alone is rather simple and lightly flavored, however, it is an excellent solvent with a little heat added. That being said, water and steam do have a tendency to mute flavors, I believe this is because of water's ability to blend flavors, which removes complexity from the rub and meat. I am in agreement that the primary reason for foiling is to introduce the process of steaming which aids in breaking down both collagen and protein, through the process of using heat to denature the proteins. Done perfectly, this will result in a more moist product, miss by just a few minutes and you have the curious dichotomy of wet yet dry meat. The steam in an enclosed environment is much hotter than the heat you can create without any foil.

I don't think we are that far off in our statements. Water can hold flavor, but it dillutes it. The trick is to get the water to leave the fat and the flavors of the seasoning behind.

For example, rub meat down with salt and the salt will extract water. But, at a point it will cause water carrying the salt back into the meat. The trick from that point is to cook the meat in a way that some of the water is evaporated out while it leaves the salt and some of the fat (and other flavors) behind.

 

[Boshizzle]

We've had pretty good success with ribs in competitions when I've cooked ribs.

First, I use baby backs, and this factors in to many of the decisions. As soon as
we can get meat inspected I remove the membranes and then immerse them in a
cool mixture of apple juice, worchestershire and water. They'll stay overnight, and
I keep a little ice on them all night. About 2 hours before going on the smoker I
take them out, pat them dry a little, and then apply our rub on both sides fairly
liberally (we have no sugars in our rub). On the smoker (250 degrees) for an hour
and a half. We spritz twice, a mixture of apple juice and worchestershire. At 90
minutes we foil them and apply the last heavy spritz. I keep them in another 3 hours
on foil. We've had success with both presenting just like this (sans sauce) or a small
amount of our sauce (that works well with the rub and apple juice) for the last 3
minutes on heat. The apple juice has helped break down and render the fats as well
as has enough sugar in it to give our ribs a nice sweet and hot (spice) balance.

You are very generous in sharing your process. Thanks for the tips!

 

[warren.miller]

I think these are great tid bit on cooking. Everyone has their own way. But it is important to keep learning.

 

[Skip]

If you make sure your foil is tight and can't create steam you will change the way they cook in the foil. You won't "steam the flavor out".

 

[JD McGee]

Try this...the night before your comp...apply a light mustard slather and moderate dusting of rub to both sides of your ribs...wrap in plastic wrap and cooler overnight. About an hour or so before you toss your ribs on the smoker give them another moderate dusting of rub.

Toss them on the smoker @ 250-275 (water in the pan if using a bullet...hickory and apple for smoke woods) bone side down for two hours...spritz with apple juice at the 2 hour mark then every 1/2 hour until the temp between the bones hits 185 then slather both sides with sauce...after 15-20 minutes sauce the meat side again to set the glaze for another 15 minutes...remove and let rest for 15 minutes before slicing...touch up with a little more sauce before boxing...easy peasy...:thumb: Good luck...

 

[Ford]

I don't put a light coat on my ribs. I can't see the meat once I have dusters them they sit in a cooler for thirty minutes to an hour then right on the smoker. They are in foil for maybe an hour

Somebody was paying attention. I may even put on just a bit more now than I did last Spring.

 

[Smokin' Gnome BBQ]

This has been an amazingly informative thread!! here are some pics of a rack of BB that I am doing as I type.
the rack was just under 3 1/2 pound
removed the membrane
I rubbed (actually rubbed not just dusted) and let marinate for 2 hours.
on the cooker at 225 (ish) using peach and cherry.
I have been spritzing every 1/2 hour with apple cider
at the 3 hour point I give the ribes another light dusting of rub.
Im thinking the finish point will be at the 5 hour mark.

didnt do any trimming, but my next step is to research if the top (loin??) part of the ribs needs to be "shaved" down some. I ll try to post more pics when Im done. I dont plan on foiling or even saucing, Im just looking for the smoke and rib flavors.

 

[landarc]

Man, that is a good looking rack you got going there.

 

[ClayHill]

looks great.......how was the taste???

 

[Smokin' Gnome BBQ]

looks great.......how was the taste???

I actually liked the taste I think the 2 hours in the rub and the hit again 1/2 way into the cook helped. I didnt cook them very well, fire got a little hot and i went way over time while I was pulling 4 butts for a party. This was probably only the 2nd rack of BB that I have ever cooked, gonna try it again with spares.

 

[Big Ugly's BBQ]

Part of the problem is cooking with BB's:doh:................



After this last weekend, I have a new appreciation for BB's, they were good to us.