L-P-Que Bbq Championship-$75,000.00

[JohnMcD348]

sarcasm> Oh this is the dawning of dark times. Imagine segregation of the cooking field; the gasers over here, the woodies over there. Late night scare tatics by the old school. Severed gas lines... SABATOGE!!!!!!!!!!! The fancy gasers trying to push progression on us wood burners. Are weapons of defence allowed? I'll have to put barbwire around my lot. Bunkers on the front and back. Snipers flanking the sides. A dark age indeed. </end sarcasm

COOL! Full contact BBQ death match. That'll get it off the Food Network and on to MTV or even a weakly reality show on the regular networks.

 

[Sledneck]

After reading alll of this i am all for supporting it. Any publicity is good publicity. Its not as if reg kcbs events are gonna get eliminated it will only make it bigger. ALot of you need to relax. We have pellets, electronic devices etc already in the events.

 

[jminion]

Vinny
I'm not the best writer but lets go over your points
1. KCBS has a product and it is a service, it is what we sale to Organizers, a scoring system, supply Reps and the process to run a contest.

2. Like any business and that is what KCBS is will evolve over time and cooking over wood and charcoal continues to be are main focus.

3.As was pointed out in the Dec Bullsheet it was announced that there we
have created a Competitor series, so I will stand behind me statement. I knew we would be having these discussions when the first contest was announced, I had no idea that Arlie would be bring to the table what he has but it certinaly has made a big splash.

Guy
We can adopt rules to to accomadate these types of contests, anyone entering the contest will have the rule explained so they understand what the play field is. In this case we modify the rule to LP pits as discribed in Arlie's release. Again this does not change KCBS's primary mission.

Sean
Again the Competitor series was covered in the Dec issue of the Bullsheet and most missed the article.
Gasser are not being allowed to compete in the same BBQ series IE; 99.99% of the contest we will sanction this year.

The leadership issue you will have take up with the leadership, I'm a Board member but not an officer. I felt someone from the Board needed to speak on the issue so I have tried to do that. I could very well be censured for doing so but I'm am willing to take the chance.

Nancee
Master series is cooking over wood and charcoal, Contest as you know them.

Competitor series is a cooking contest (that could be deep frying if that is what the organizer needs) that the rules allow a fuel source other than wood and charcoal.

Let me say that I understand everyone feelings and no matter how this was announced there was going to be these discussions. I do not take them as a personel attack.

Jim

 

[JohnMcD348]

I'm not a competitor yet and won't even pretend that I've read all the rules and regs but I have a question.

With the difference between Competitor and Master divisions, would they both count toward the same end of the year totals or will they be kept as two seperate and individual divisions?

As for the inclusion of other types of fuel sources and people who say they are purists, well, when BBQ was first done it was over an open pit with wood and the animals that were hunted, killed and/or passed down by the owners as unusable and not worth preparing for human consumption. Should that be part of the rules also to "keep it pure"? Not to add to or create another arguement here. I'm still kinda the newbie on the block and working toward competing. Slowly, but working on it.

 

[jminion]

I'm not a competitor yet and won't even pretend that I've read all the rules and regs but I have a question.

With the difference between Competitor and Master divisions, would they both count toward the same end of the year totals or will they be kept as two seperate and individual divisions?

John
Competitor series will not count towards team of the year or will it be included in the Royal, GAB and Jack Daniels competitions unless those contests choose to change their qualifications (KCBS does not regulate those qualifications)

 

[JohnMcD348]

Well, then I don't see alot of problems(again, outside looking in) with the idea of letting others come into the competition using gassers. Yes, it's easier to set a gasser up to run at or around 225 but it would still need to be cooked for many hours, just like wood Que. If anything, I would see problems with the idea of trying that for longer periods of time since you have to deal with the condensation issues of the LP burning in a closed environment.

 

[Ulcer Acres]

Thank you Dr. BBQ. As far as some of the gasser models, Ole Hickory, Southern Pride and Doc I am sure you know of some more.

 

[Muzzlebrake]

Again the Competitor series was covered in the Dec issue of the Bullsheet and most missed the article.

The leadership issue you will have take up with the leadership, I'm a Board member but not an officer. I felt someone from the Board needed to speak on the issue so I have tried to do that. I could very well be censured for doing so but I'm am willing to take the chance.

Competitor series is a cooking contest (that could be deep frying if that is what the organizer needs) that the rules allow a fuel source other than wood and charcoal.

Let me say that I understand everyone feelings and no matter how this was announced there was going to be these discussions. I do not take them as a personel attack.

Jim

Jim,
You are the man buddy! In all seriousness please dont take anything I say personal as I am not taking up anything with anyone. I am enjoying this lively debate, this is a great discussion and obviously evokes many emotions. Thanks for being a big part of it.

To be honest I have no clue who is on the board and wouldnt know a board member if they bit me in the ass. I will say that aside as a relative newcomer, what am I to think when an organization is sanctioning a contest that violates its own rules?

I understand about board minutes and previous issues of Bullsheet but I went to the website today and downloaded the 2007 Cooks Handbook here http://www.kcbs.us/downloads/2007KCBSCooksHandbook.pdf which under paragraph 5 prohibits gas. Furthermore it is grounds for DQ as stated in the rules under Causes for Disqualification and Eviction paragraph G.

I would think that something this important would be handled in a more user friendly manner. If you want to bring people into a new competitve arena the official information and contest policies rules and regs should be easy to access and adhered to at all times. If this is the direction that the KCBS is headed then so be it that cool, but get the information out there to the general public in a timely manner. Having already sanctioned a contest before updating the rules you adopted a mere 6 weeks ago is not good for business.

 

[jminion]

Sean
I am not taking this personely except with one person and I addressed that on another forum.

The reason the Rules as posted for 2007 read as they do is because those are the rules for 99% of the contests we sanction (Maaster series).

Rules for Competitor series will be adapted as need to run that contest as an example for the contest in question it will state the cooker requirements and the fact that other style of cookers will not be allowed. This the organizers choice. But if they want to hold a Master series contest then 2007 rules apply.

Jim

 

[Muzzlebrake]

The reason the Rules as posted for 2007 read as they do is because those are the rules for 99% of the contests we sanction (Maaster series).

Rules for Competitor series will be adapted as need to run that contest as an example for the contest in question it will state the cooker requirements and the fact that other style of cookers will not be allowed. This the organizers choice. But if they want to hold a Master series contest then 2007 rules apply.

Then as defined above they are not rules but guidelines to be changed at will by contest organizers? If that is the case are these organizers allowed tochange the kind of meats they want prepared?

As I have said throughout, I have no problem change, but how about doing it so that it leaves no ambiguity raises more questions than it answers.

Rules that can be changed by organizers at will, cannot be good for any sanctioning body. Clear cut, non subjective, consistently adhered to rules does nothing but reaffirm and governing bodies authority.

Once again I have no problem with change, but lets do it in a unified, open, organized, easy to understand manner.

 

[jminion]

We will defind the cookers and meats as part of the rules.
The ideas to allow contests with different needs other than those defind in the Master series. This is not a big step, within the scoring program we can change meats or add side dishes as needed for a contest.

In this contest the change will be the use of LP for the only fuel source and the items that would exclude lp would be removed.

 

[BBQchef33]

i rreally tried to follow all this, but im and A.D.D poster child.. so i may be real confused.

First, I'd like to possibly clarify some stuff for a few members that, in this discussion, termed this as grills, grilling, etc.. I believe, what is being discussed here really are PITS, not grills. i may be wrong, but its sounds like some are thinking direct heat, Weber Genesis and the like. I dont think thats the case.

If I am not mistaken, these pits in question, such as the Old Hickorys and Southern Pride gassers are woodburners with gas assist. They have wood chambers in them. You set the thermostat, and gas fired flame throwers light the wood, once the pit comes to temp, the gas goes out and the wood burns down, fans turn for convection and when temps drop, the gas fires back up to get the wood going again. This to me is no differnet than an auger turning on and dropping pellets, or a fan blowing onto the coals when temps drop. Its just another thermostatically controlled pit. Old hickories have been competing in our contest for years, they are just required to unhook the gas and burn sticks.

Jim, Arlie In this "competitor class" does this mean that NO WOOD can be used as a flavor source and its is 100% gas for heat and flavor?

All this concept seems to me is to be setting up a seperate class/contest for the gas pit. Its like the car races.... Stock, Funny car, Indy, demo derby.. You have to have the proper car to compete in the corresponding class. Same thing here.

I dont like the idea of not being able to jump in on a 75K purse, but we cant fault KCBS for whos putting up the cash. Thats the organizers issue and where the sponsors want to put it. If I want to join, i gotta go borrow Arlies Old Hickory. :twisted: Its like owning an F250 and getting pissed off at Nascar becase ya dont have the right car to join the race. Our contests are still here, unchanged, and the rules for Us(The masters series) remains unchanged.

A new event has been born, modifying the rules for THEM. Theres no effect on me. Its a new set of rules rendered from ours, but its their rules now, for a class I dont compete in. So, imo, thats no hair out of my nose.

Alot of hobbies have classes. I used to compete in amateur racing(of sorts). We had Stock, modified, supermodified, Stadium Racers, Pullers, etc.... Theres was a set of common rules for everyone, and also each class had its own subset of rules. Each class had its own field and its own races. Occasionally, they would have a "cross class" race, or free for all. I see this as very close.

Just my 2 cents worth.


PS. Wanna make me real happy, take ALL the thermostatic pits to the "competitor series" permanently... Good riddance. :twisted: But we wont go there now will we.

 

[Sledneck]

PS. Wanna make me real happy, take ALL the thermostatic pits to the "competitor series". Good riddance. :twisted: But we wont go there now will we.

When i get my fec100 are you gonna come over and help[ me break it in

 

[jminion]

Phil
One thing KCBS is not putting up any money, KCBS never has. We are simply officating the contest.

 

[BBQchef33]

I know that. What I was trying to say is that(to counter what i read/interperted in one of the posts) we CANNOT BLAME KCBS that the organizers/sponsors put up the big purse at a "competitor event" instead of a "masters". I was trying to convey that its NOT KCBS money.

I dont like the idea of not being able to jump in on a 75K purse, but we cant fault KCBS for whos putting up the cash. Thats the organizers issue and where the sponsors want to put it.

 

[jminion]

Phil
To say the least it's been a long 4 days, that started witha 5 hour board meeting, it's been non stop since. I miss read your post, sorry my man.
You are quite correct.
Thanks

 

[BBQchef33]

No prob.. thanks for your patience and helping people understand whats going on.

 

[QansasjayhawQ]

After reading all the way through this post - and NOT being a member of the KCBS (as of yet) I have to agree with Phil's assessment of comparing the classes to motorsports.

To carry the analogy a little further, this sounds like the current situation where the winner of the Craftsman Trucks series has no hope of winning the Nextel Cup - and even if you pitted the trucks against the cars, there's no way the trucks could even begin to compete - unless the cars had restrictions placed on them.

With the Masters series, it sounds like business as usual with a brand new class being created that won't even compete with or affect the Masters.

It has worked great for NASCAR - it works great for the SCCA - why not the KCBS?

For what it's worth . . .

/Brother Dave

 

[ique]

I have to agree with Phil's assessment of comparing the classes to motorsports.

Yeah, except in car racing there is a clear reason for different classes: the cars have different capabilities. The cars operate at different speeds or require different types of tracks etc.

Do the LP cookers have any different capabilities than a pellet pooper or a stick burner? I would think the proud owners of SP and OH believe they can cook BBQ as well or better than any other cooker out there?

I thought the whole point of a BBQ contest was getting all sorts of folks together with varied cookers and approaches to BBQ and see who can cook the best?

 

[SP]

It has worked great for NASCAR

Then we will have to suspend chief cooks when they use flavor enhancers or take away point if the bolt aren't tight on the rigs.:biggrin: