Help me select a Q

[Demosthenes9]

Lol, I am from NYC, so I am not a born-n-bred southerner raised on low and slow bbq, so I understand where you are coming from as a beginner.

Basically, some food cooks (relatively) fast, using high heat. This is GRILLING. You either cook the food right over the heat source, or in an indirect area off to the side of the heat source, depending on what you are cooking, but you are not slow cooking or smoking it. Think burgers, dogs, grilled chicken breast, veggies, pizza, and steaks. You are living in the 400-800 degree cooking zone here.

Then there is BBQ, what this board is mostly about, where you cook the given meat at a lower temp for an extended period of time. This is for two reasons. FIRST, BBQ cuts like brisket and pork shoulder are poor cuts of meat full of collagen, connective tissue. They are tough and if cooked like a pork tenderloin or ribeye steak they will be too tough and chewy to eat.Where you would cook a ribeye steak to medium rare at about 130-135 degrees internal temp, a pork butt or brisket needs to get to around 200 degrees internal temp, well past well done, for the magic to happen.Tha magic is allowing the collagen to melt and render, basting the inside of the meat and forming a moist gelatin that coats the meat fibers, giving the texture and mouth feel of tenderness. SECOND, cooking low and slow also allows the cook to introduce wood smoke to flavor the meat.
You are living in the 200-300 degree cooking zone here. Where you are generally cooking over the flame in grilling, you are cooking away from the actual heat source in bbq, with the fire either in an offset firebox or with a water pan between the fire and food.

The smoke part leads to the great debate in BBQ, fuel sources!

That info above is all pretty much the way it is, no real debating there. When it comes to fuel sources, things get crazy as there are plenty of options and plenty of people with strong opinions, whether or not they have actually used the different types of sources on quality equipment. Here is the basic list.

1)Propane or LP, otherwise referred pejoratively as a gasser in BBQ circles. There is a debate about the type of heat propane puts off and its suitability to bbq. There are also people who swear "they can taste the gas." But in my opinion, if the greatest steakhouses in the world have no problem with a "gas taste," then why would I? Besides, does the food that comes out of your oven taste like gas too? More objectively, the problems with gas are 1) most backyard grills are too small and not really laid out or equipped to deal with cooking big meats low and slow and 2) there is always safety concerns with propane. Now, having said that, it can be done, and I have had good results on my big commercial grade Crown Verity grills using either wood chips or the amazen pellet tube smoke device for wood flavor. This is how I started, using the tools I had available to me at the time.

Great write up, but 0in discussing Propane, you don't seem to have discussed actual vertical propane smokers. Rather, you talked about using a propane grill as a smoker.

I have a cheapy Smoke Hollow 44 and while I can't do whole hog, I can throw ~100 lbs of meat in it with no problems. It can do 10 full packers, or 10 12lb butts, or dozens of racks of BB's or spares (if I use rib racks.)

My SH44 wouldn't fit OPs wants/needs of course, but Klose makes some nice cabinet smokers that can be run on propane or natural gas. Here's their 30x30 cabinet that can be fitted with a 160K BTU burner in the firebox.

http://www.bbqpits.com/commercial_indoor_outdoor_smokers/30x30upright2012.htm

Just trying to point out that OP doesn't have to give up on propane. FWIW, propane is just a heat source, just like wood, or charcoal. It's something that heats the cooking chamber to the desired temp for low and slow Q'ing.

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Great write up, but 0in discussing Propane, you don't seem to have discussed actual vertical propane smokers. Rather, you talked about using a propane grill as a smoker.

I have a cheapy Smoke Hollow 44 and while I can't do whole hog, I can throw ~100 lbs of meat in it with no problems. It can do 10 full packers, or 10 12lb butts, or dozens of racks of BB's or spares (if I use rib racks.)

My SH44 wouldn't fit OPs wants/needs of course, but Klose makes some nice cabinet smokers that can be run on propane or natural gas. Here's their 30x30 cabinet that can be fitted with a 160K BTU burner in the firebox.

http://www.bbqpits.com/commercial_indoor_outdoor_smokers/30x30upright2012.htm

Just trying to point out that OP doesn't have to give up on propane. FWIW, propane is just a heat source, just like wood, or charcoal. It's something that heats the cooking chamber to the desired temp for low and slow Q'ing.

Yup, of course you are correct, there are dedicated propane smokers out there. Between me writing this at the hour i did lol, and the fact that he was looking for high end gear, I didn't think much to go into propane. Yeah there are high end propane smokers Like SP and OH, but those are really restaurant smokers and no shot at what the op was thinking. But yeah, I could have delved into propane a little more.

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Oh, almost forgot...the wife keeps Kosher so doing whole hogs won't be an issue.

Just got done watching this video:
http://www.crownverity.com/products/grills-and-griddles/72-inch-grill-MCB-72

Joe, this thing is awesome....you can have a huge griddle for pancake breakfast, or you can have steamers to keep food warm...the versatility is amazing. Also, it has water trays underneath to add moisture and reduce flare-up's and making cleaning easier. The only complication is that it makes building this thing into an enclosure a bit challenging to ensure I can slide the trays out, but that's why wide counters are good; I'll make it work.

All things considered, I think the Pitt's Vault and the Crown-V 72" propane grill is the absoute best bet for my needs....add a phony Santa Maria axle/wheel and a triangle dinner bell and we be stylin' :becky:

Tell me I'm wrong, I dare ya!

I have one of those MCB72's myself and I love it. I'd say having both a pitmaker vault and a MCB72 in your outdoor kitchen would give you plenty of capacity for both smoking classic BBQ and also high heat grilling from quality equipment that will last you a long time. Last season I also picked up an MCB48, but previous to that the 72 was used to feed 2-300 people for all-you-can-eat 4 hour long events.

If you want built in you could just as easily put in 2 of their 36 inch built-in units.

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Joe,

This is all REALLY great information, I think I'm getting a solid grasp on how everything works and how I could apply it to my own needs...or at least I think I'm finding clarity and direction in the information.

Allow me to delve into some of your info:




Got it, neither smoker is for grilling. It's just that a horizontal smoker looks like a grill and in some units the horizontal chamber is a grill (such as the Tombstone).

Up until this moment I had erroneously thought the horizontal unit could also be grilled on by placing coals directly underneath the grid. This was my gross misunderstanding.

So to be clear, the Tombstone is a vertical smoker with an attached grill. The owner of the shop told me the firebox is beneath the vertical smoker and it does not vent or do anything for the grill. The grill is a Santa Maria style grill with the lifting/lowering rack operated by the big wheel on the side (which I feel is a classic BBQ look for a ranch). So, just to confirm: some vertical smokers have GRILLS attached while other vertical smokers have a horizontal smoker attached.

Ok, I just looked over that tombstone cooker. I would say that is a unique setup, not the norm. Most of the vertical/horizontal combos I have seen are both smokers, this is a santa maria/smoker combo.





Now this is something I'd really like to focus on and learn about; the difference between the horizontal smoker and vertical smoker. I'm hearing everything you're saying about capacity, footprint and using the vertical section as a warmer/holding cabinet...but Joe, how do they differ in terms of their performance? Would you cook differently on one versus the other?

I may be wrong here but the vertical smoker would seem to be an even slower cooker using lower temperatures? Then again, I've now seen 2 different styles of vertical smoker: units that have the firebox beneath the smoke chamber (as would a dedicted vertical smoker, like the BBQ Vault) OR units that have the horizontal chamber between the vertical smoker and firebox...such as the Klose or Pitt's unit....these units put the vertical smoker all the way on the opposite side of the horizontal chamber (some 72" away)...this configuration would seem to make the vertical smoker more so ideal for warming/holding but in so far as cooking I'd imagine we're talking temps around 135-170...and I'm guessing the in-between horizontal chamber is upwards of the 200's??

I'm asking the same question in a different format, but what is the difference between a guy using a dedicated vertical smoker and the guy using a horizontal smoker with an offset firebox...or for that matter the firebox centered and beneath the main chamber vs. offset? I'd love some clarification on this....thanks!!

Well, every cooker cooks differently. The offsets are all about using wood logs and the airflow of the unit. Some people feel this provides the best final product. Of course, tastes are subjective, and some people genuinely do not want the stronger smoke flavor. Verticals mainly use charcoal, but can use pellets, propane, or electric. A lot of times there is a water pan as well. Benefits to the verticals are mostly efficiency and easier operation vs horizontal stick burners. Most of them are fully insulated and can hold temps very well. You can get 6-8 or more hours from a load of charcoal.


Here again, my gross misunderstanding. In the case of the tombstone or Santa Maria the grill does get charcoal...but with a horizontal smoker there is no charcoal or heat source in the main chamer....as you explain, it's offset to the side or perhaps below the chamer in a seperate firebox. Got it! :biggrin1:

Yup, usually off to the side.


What's become evident to me is that my very limited experience with charcoal was loading some into an open grill and setting it ablaze...because it got a lot of air, it got really hot and burned-out quickly. I now understand that regulating the air entirely affects the rate of burn and temperature.



My repeated reference to Santa Maria is entirely based on the long horizontal axle that runs over the grill and has large wheels that go on each side, IMO it has a classic large BBQ look...it's merely a visual feature that I envision as being part of the Ultimate BBQ set-up.

And that is why there are tons of choices out there, everyone has their thoughts on what is ideal for them.

Large & impressive...yes, because we'll occassionally use the place for location use (movies, commercials, videos, etc)...and a large unit has the quinessential ranch look...it's not just another Weber on the porch. I don't mean to sound superficial but I'm shooting for something that prompts my fellow buddies to say to each other "Dude, you gotta checkout that BBQ"...I want it to be a prominent feature of the place. We can also substitute 'large & impressive' with functional, well made, professional and "makes amazing food".

Something relatively easy to use and not requiring constant attention. Yes and no, I'm not looking for something extremely involved and requiring a lot of time and learning curve...but I'm not scared by having to do some work; anything worth having doesn't come easy! Seems like the Guru-device could make things a lot easier and take an otherwise high-maintenance unit into the realm of something more practical.

Larger capacity. Hells yes!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I'm looking for something where envious people will accuse me of compensating for something or having a mid-life crisis. I'm thinking about a sign over the BBQ that reads "You can crash my truck, beat my dog, smack my wife and even steal my money...but do NOT touch my BBQ". I suspect you see where I'm going with this. :loco:

Grilling area optional. Uh, no...having given it some thought, I'm definitely going to need a super-large grilling area. When we harvest a lot of corn and want to serve it up....or have to serve hamburgers and hot dogs for some 180 people, I'm gonna need me a big-ass grill....and I'm even thinking a big gasser would be the most simple way to go.


Joe, all things considered and much based on your input and info, here is what I'm thinking at this point:

The Daily Driver...on the porch directly outside the kitchen...a 36" Crown Verity, this unit is something the wife, kids and anyone can use. It'll be a gasser and serve for weekday cooking, grilling and what-not. Simple, easy and everything I'm familiar with.

The Big Bad Boy....(what we're talking about here). I'm thinking TWO components set in the same brick enclosure. First unit, a really nice vertical smoker, the Pitmaker BBQ Vault you showed me looks AMAZING, it has 5 racks that each measure 22"x25", sealed door and a stainless steel water reservoir to keep things moist/flavorful. I'm thinking this will be my smoker. This is where I'll take it old-school authentic and have a bit of a learning curve to get it right. The size, appearance, performance...everything adds-up. Seems to me I could smoke some chicken for several hours and perhaps finish it off on a high-temp grill for some sear lines and then move to a low-temp section of the grill to finish it with basted layers of rich BBQ sauce. So this is my smoker. Even though the Klose or Pitt's unit looks great, I don't see why I'd need both a vertical smoker and a horizontal smoker with offset firebox...seems to me I have the capacity and everything with the BBQ Vault, please advise if I'm missing anything.

Next component, instead of a large horizontal chamber with an offset firebox, I'd instead opt for a huge grill...and why not go with a gasser? I might be able to get funky with a wood-chip tray to get some smoke action going...but for the most part I'm looking for that large (or HUGE) grill that can do the burgers, dogs, corn and even chicken. Don't laugh but I'm back to another Crown Verity

Those sound like pretty solid choices based on what you want to do.

View attachment 92654

So there you go.....I've got the smoking cover with an awesome stunning beautiful impressive Pitts BBQ Vault that should be able to churn-out smoked meats after doing some learning...and then next to it a massive 72" grill for the corn, burgers, etc.

I don't need a deep fryer, I don't want a large wok, I don't think I need any other cooking accessories/appliances beyond the smoker and grill. Okay, maybe a stove top for a pot or two...but this would all fall into the area where I'll put a sink, small microwave or other stuff. Focusing on the BBQ needs I think we got this figured out....but, is there ANY reason I might want to get a horizontal smoker in addition to the BBQ Vault??? I don't see it....I think the Vault has me covered.




And this is exactly what sold me on the BBQ Vault, I think you're bang-on correct!! :biggrin1:



If I have a Vault...why would I want/need a sniper smoker?? Either way I'll give them a call



A trailer? I dunno, it says "temporary" or even rented. I realize it means I could take the whole unit places (like if I got into competitions) but there's just something about a permanent install that speaks to me. It's almost like comparing a dough-boy above ground pool to a custom in-ground pool. I don't want people to think I rented the thing or worry about someone perhaps stealing it...I want something in brick and looking like it's an integral part of the ranch.



Yeah, I think you really nailed it on the head with this call Joe!! Just looking at that unit gives me goosebumps and something else the wife will have to help me with later.



Hmmm....interesting, but we're talking about charcoal again. Keep plenty in stock, wait for it to get hot, hope you cook everything before the heat runs out....definitely working with an operable window of cooking time...and then a lot of dust to clean up. I hate to wuss-out but given the awesome smoker on hand, I think I can roll with the propane for the grill...just too easy. Please let me know if my logic is bad. :loco:





Calling them tomorrow! :biggrin1: I'll be sure to tell them I'm interested in their Vault but would also like a large (5-foot plus) grill next to the vault...see what they offer. I bet they can build anything!



Joe, I think it's safe to say that I've safely divorced myself from the notion of having to have an all-in-one unit; I don't need the vault to have a grill attached. May as well get the best Vault with the best grill...the Pitts Vault is awesome and that 72" Crown-V also looks stunning. Don't roll your eyes too hard but I just may have a local shop fabricate a 7-foot axle and wheel to run over the 72" grill...it'll do nothing but look cool but tell me those stupid little 'wings' on the back of cars really serve a purpose beyond looking cool.

But yeah, since I'm open to individual units I'm willing to look at any vertical smoker and any grill....and combination units as well.

We're narrowing it down buddy! Can't thank you enough....any other suggestions, thoughts, commentary is VERY welcome! I'll start making calls and see what's out there. I'm sure there's some other options and revisions to the plan...but that BBQ Vault seems amazing, especially with the Guru option!

- Steve

check out my comments in red above.

 

[Volsfan846]

Don't want to really confuse you, but if you are looking for something that is a great smoker and grill combo, check out the Meat Monster from Peoria. Seems to be very easy to control temps and is convertible to a direct grill for cooking large quantities of meat. One of the most flexible systems on the market. Just Google Meat Monster and it will take right to their web site.

 

[BBQ_MAFIA]

Do yourself a favor and call Jay at Spice Ironworks. He is a long time member here and makes amazing cookers. Beyond his standard models Jay can do all the custom work you may want.

The Large Spicewine is a beast of a smoker that holds a ton of meat. It has a very short learning curve and is as close to set it and forget it as you can get. You can have the unit painted any way you want and as it is highly insulated the paint never burns or flakes off. If you want, I can send you a few pics of my Spicewine in action.

Do yourself a big favor and call Jay. You will be happy you did.

 

[Demosthenes9]

Might also take a look at Cadillac Cookers for a rotisserie smoker with fully automatic gas system.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-iTtkZ1q5s"]Cadillac Cookers - Seasoning Your Rotisserie BBQ Smoker - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

Don't want to really confuse you, but if you are looking for something that is a great smoker and grill combo, check out the Meat Monster from Peoria. Seems to be very easy to control temps and is convertible to a direct grill for cooking large quantities of meat. One of the most flexible systems on the market. Just Google Meat Monster and it will take right to their web site.

I appreciate the lead and that certainly is a great unit, but I'm not seeing a sealed door, water tray or what I feel is even close to being equal to the Pitmaker Vault...I gotta go with seperates but as a single unit goes, that things looks awesome.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

Do yourself a favor and call Jay at Spice Ironworks. He is a long time member here and makes amazing cookers. If you want, I can send you a few pics of my Spicewine in action.

I'll look to call Jay towards Wednesday and I'll be sure to mention you referred him. As for the pics, I'd love to see them, pls send to [email protected]

Thanks!

Might also take a look at Cadillac Cookers for a rotisserie smoker with fully automatic gas system.

WOW, that's production...but a tad bit too industrious for what I'm looking to achieve. Thanks for the link though! :thumb:

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

I have one of those MCB72's myself and I love it. I'd say having both a pitmaker vault and a MCB72 in your outdoor kitchen would give you plenty of capacity for both smoking classic BBQ and also high heat grilling from quality equipment that will last you a long time.

Joe,

I think I've pretty much landed on where and what I'm looking for...and I have you to much thank for it! :thumb:

I spoke with the guys at Pitmaker and their unit sounds AMAZING. The sealed doors, insulated cabinet, water tray, Guru controller, build quality....this thing absolutely should crank-out some awesome BBQ.

I researched other vertical's and pretty much all of them neglect to include the water tray. From personal experience I have a little portable gasser grill that has a cute little water basin that I thought was mostly to make it easier to clean...but at the RV park it churned-out some great chicken and steak. The lid is very low over the food and when you open the lid a fog of smoke and moisture surround the meat, the result was super-juicy and flavorful meat....from this I gleaned that moisture is good!! So any vertical smoker I want would have this feature.

Yeah, a Vault is the way to go...and I'm okay with it not being propane. The guy told me I could use wood, charcoal or even a combination of both. For the smoked meat, I want it to be authentic BBQ and for that I'll need to delve into the learning curve of wood/charcoal....but I really don't mind, it's part of the fun. In short, I'm there! :becky:

Next, the grill...the 72" of two 36" Crown-V's seem like an astounding choice, they too have a water basin underneath and along with looking sharp and a good deal of versatility with griddles, warming containers, steamers, rotiserie, etc. It's a big gasser grill...turn it on, heat it up, toss anything and everything on it.

You did it, you found me a killer smoker unit and a huge grill...put it all in a brick enclosure and add some storage drawers, sink, stove top and I'm ready to host some huge parties in what should be a dream BBQ area.

I can not find a better smoker or grill that meets my needs better! I'm still researching a few alternatives but at this point I know enough to realize when something doesn't stack-up...still, I want to see options just so I don't do one of these :doh: later

Can't thank you enough....if this forum helped you, you've indeed "paid it forward" :-D

 

[Demosthenes9]

WOW, that's production...but a tad bit too industrious for what I'm looking to achieve. Thanks for the link though! :thumb:

Yeah, it's a bit much with the trailer, diamond plate and all. Here's a pic of just a smoker itself, without the trailer or the other add-ons. They also have one that's smaller with a single door, as well as without casters.

Whatever you end up with, we're all going to want to see some finished pics

 

[1buckie]

Whatever you end up with, we're all going to want to see some finished pics

Yep......and when you're most of the way set up, git in here & ask questions.....

There's a bunch of people that have these cookers that can help you fire it correctly & get some great food done up !!!!!!

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Joe,

I think I've pretty much landed on where and what I'm looking for...and I have you to much thank for it! :thumb:

I spoke with the guys at Pitmaker and their unit sounds AMAZING. The sealed doors, insulated cabinet, water tray, Guru controller, build quality....this thing absolutely should crank-out some awesome BBQ.

I researched other vertical's and pretty much all of them neglect to include the water tray. From personal experience I have a little portable gasser grill that has a cute little water basin that I thought was mostly to make it easier to clean...but at the RV park it churned-out some great chicken and steak. The lid is very low over the food and when you open the lid a fog of smoke and moisture surround the meat, the result was super-juicy and flavorful meat....from this I gleaned that moisture is good!! So any vertical smoker I want would have this feature.

Yeah, a Vault is the way to go...and I'm okay with it not being propane. The guy told me I could use wood, charcoal or even a combination of both. For the smoked meat, I want it to be authentic BBQ and for that I'll need to delve into the learning curve of wood/charcoal....but I really don't mind, it's part of the fun. In short, I'm there! :becky:

Next, the grill...the 72" of two 36" Crown-V's seem like an astounding choice, they too have a water basin underneath and along with looking sharp and a good deal of versatility with griddles, warming containers, steamers, rotiserie, etc. It's a big gasser grill...turn it on, heat it up, toss anything and everything on it.

You did it, you found me a killer smoker unit and a huge grill...put it all in a brick enclosure and add some storage drawers, sink, stove top and I'm ready to host some huge parties in what should be a dream BBQ area.

I can not find a better smoker or grill that meets my needs better! I'm still researching a few alternatives but at this point I know enough to realize when something doesn't stack-up...still, I want to see options just so I don't do one of these :doh: later

Can't thank you enough....if this forum helped you, you've indeed "paid it forward" :-D

Glad to help man, you are gonna have some serious toys there.

PM me your contact info and I'll forwad it on to CV to make sure my guy takes care of you and you get my discount.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

Yep......and when you're most of the way set up, git in here & ask questions.....

There's a bunch of people that have these cookers that can help you fire it correctly & get some great food done up !!!!!!

I'll definitely post some pics, this forum has been a wonderful resource and it's amazing how fast threads move and topics are discussed.

Glad to help man, you are gonna have some serious toys there.

PM me your contact info and I'll forwad it on to CV to make sure my guy takes care of you and you get my discount.

I tried PM'ing you and the system wouldn't let it go through. I have some friends who own a BBQ and fireplace store, they carry several top name brands and I'm going to try to see if they'd care to pick up and carry the Crown Verity line as well. You may have found Crown-V more then a customer, with luck another vendor! :biggrin1:

 

[TailGateJoecom]

I'll definitely post some pics, this forum has been a wonderful resource and it's amazing how fast threads move and topics are discussed.



I tried PM'ing you and the system wouldn't let it go through. I have some friends who own a BBQ and fireplace store, they carry several top name brands and I'm going to try to see if they'd care to pick up and carry the Crown Verity line as well. You may have found Crown-V more then a customer, with luck another vendor! :biggrin1:

You can email me at [email protected] , and have your friend do the same. My guy is the US Director of Sales.

 

[wagge]

I have the Vault and love this pit. There is a small learning curve getting the pit to the correct temp but once this is mastered its a set it and forget it. Yesterday I cooked a couple of Pork butts for about 9 hours on one small load of charcoal and some pecan chunks. I use the guru and have a phone app to watch the pit temp. It gives me the ability to go and do other things while cooking. It is built like a tank and will last forever.

The owner Edward ran Pitts and Spitts for years until they would not offer him a part ownership so he started his own gig, and he is just down the road from them on us59. I had a P&S offset on a trailer and while its a great pit I sold it a few years back. It does require wood management but not terrible hard just adding a couple of logs every hour or so.

Pittmaker can build anything period and their workmanship is 1st class. I have not needed to use the guru fan as the temp stay so perfect, its just a matter of learning where to set the intake air valve. For me its about a 1" and it will just sit at 250 all day. The option of custom paint and graphics is a nice touch.

Good luck in your journey

 

[luke duke]

You can't go wrong with a Klose. With your budget you have enough to get just about whatever you want. The quality is second to none and with very minimal care they will last a lifetime.

 

[BBQ_MAFIA]

I wasn't able to send the pics by email so I posted them here for you. As you can see the smoker has a lot more room for more butts.
Good luck with your decision.

I'll look to call Jay towards Wednesday and I'll be sure to mention you referred him. As for the pics, I'd love to see them, pls send to [email protected]

Thanks!

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

You can't go wrong with a Klose. With your budget you have enough to get just about whatever you want. The quality is second to none and with very minimal care they will last a lifetime.

You know what...I'll be straight with you on this. When you email Dave, he just hits reply and attaches a portion of his website to the email; he doesn't respond to questions nor does he address anything. I'm guessing he doesn't type much.

When I spoke with him, it was almost like speaking to a drunk...he REPEATEDLY rambled about getting his boating license, his wife getting her license, taking the test and missing one question, guns, how he's built thousands of BBQ's (must have said that 4-5x), how he makes them the right way and how he'll make sure I'll get the right BBQ for what I need.

Well...tell me this: how the F*#@ am I supposed to get the "right BBQ" when the guy doesn't stop rambling incessantly long enough for me to even get a word in??

Oh, did I forget...he repeatedly told me about some motorcycle BBQ that the owner put in his will that it had to be sold back to Dave for a set price so he could keep it and it'd live for eternity in the right hands of someone who could appreciate...I had to hear that story 3x.

For 30 minutes I listened to this man ramble and gloat and may have gleaned 4 minutes of attention to what I was asking for. When I followed-up with an email asking of the Master Chef unit might be better for my needs, he responded by pasting the unit (as featured on his website) to the email...that's it.

When I called, twice, and asked to speak with him....the call was never returned.

You know what...as a business owner I'm glad he's so successful that he can run a business in such a manner...or maybe that's how they roll over in the Lone Star State....but I'll take my money elsewhere. His vertical smokers don't have water trays and none of his grills can match the features of the Crown Verity. Maybe he can build it, maybe he can't....but he doesn't respond to emails, phone calls and when you do speak with him it's 90% off-topic rambling and maybe 10% real-deal focus on the matter at hand. I think he's just a bit too legendary for my taste.....



OR maybe I should just say "Thanks, I'll keep that in mind" :thumb:

Lots of pics

That's quite a unit. I'm fairly stuck on the Vault but what make is that? Is that what Jay makes??

 

[BBQ_MAFIA]

Yes, that is what Jay makes. It's a Large Spicewine.
You should give him a call at Spicewine Ironworks. You will be happy you did.