Parsley Beds

[HoDeDo]

I have to say Tim is spot on...

Well, if this is the case then I don't see how they could mark you down. Can they mark you down on taste or texture for parsley sticking to the food? My guess is that they shouldn't, but you never know. I am going to approach the rest of my team about trying all parsley either way.

Yes, you can get marked down on taste. KCBS states you should judge the meat as presented. You cannot take stuff off of it, pull it apart from another piece, etc. If two pieces stick together, that is how you get it... if it is salad covered, that is how you eat it - etc.

I judged a couple comps and heard complaints from others around the tables about having to pick the Parsley off before tasting, I literally had to wipe it off a couple entries. But we were reminded not to score it down because of it. I think it looks nice.

Wow. Not sure what they were thinking... The people at those judging tables were lucky :wink:

Garnish is optional. You can't be scored down because a judge gets a little salad with his/her chicken. I have never scored down because of it and don't know anyone that has. It's just one of those things that happen.

We've always been told to judge it as it arrives. In our CBJ class examples, we had an entry where two ribs were stuck together. We could not pull them apart. We also had chopped brisket on a chopped wilted lettuce bed - the sauced brisket, kept the lettuce... we were told to judge it as it was presented.

 

[BBQchef33]

my nickles worth. My long winded mindset.

theres 2 thing in the box. meat and garnish.

What if you find a hair in the box.?? Are you going to eat it and judge that based on taste. No, in my judging class, I was taught to remove the hair, and its at your discretion to DQ/downscore the entry or not.

According to the rules, your not suppose to score the garnish, but human nature makes you do it. A well garnished box looks prettier. Thats all there is to it. But that is on an appearance score.

The rules differentiate between garnish and meat. Garnish must consist of green leafy, parlsey, cilantro, etc... Meat must be ribs, chicken, pork, brisket. There is a HARD and FAST line between the 2.

With the meat, if you include slices and chunks and chopped, all are fair game for sampling, but the garnish is in the same box. Yet we all know the garnish IS NOT there for sampling. No where in the rules does it say to EAT THE GARNISH and score it. If it comes out with a piece of meat, I would not eat it and not score the garnish.

The meat is allowed to have sauce, thats it, NOT Salad. If someone want to get real picky, they can claim that a piece of parsley is in the sauce and its bigger than a "fine dice" as stated in rule 10 and must be downed to a score of 1. I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a table captain that would agree with that, or a rep that would uphold it.

Having a piece of garnish stuck to the meat is exactly that.. a piece of garnish.... I know what the garnish is and I know that is not what the cook intended to do. I would not eat the garnish and move on with the MEAT as intended and presented. I would not downscore it.

 

[HoDeDo]

Thanks Bob. I can't wait to see what Mike comes back with. I'd be happy to change my judging style if he comes back with something different than I was told in class. He's the top dog in my book on this topic. As it is, I judge it as I get it. 9 times out of 10 if something is stuck to it, it is not where I am going to bite... so a non issue anyway.

OK, I went above and beyond and sent Mike Lake an email. (below) I'll let everyone know his response.

Some other competitors and I got into a discussion that lead to a judging question.

If garnish gets stuck to a piece of chicken while the judge is taking her/his piece out of the turn in box, should the judge:

a: eat the sample with the garnish on and score based on the taste with the garnish taste
b: eat the sample with the garnish on and score based on the taste without the garnish taste
c: discard the garnish without point reduction and sample
d: discard the garnish with point reduction and sample

 

[Plowboy]

Yes, you can get marked down on taste. KCBS states you should judge the meat as presented. You cannot take stuff off of it, pull it apart from another piece, etc. If two pieces stick together, that is how you get it... if it is salad covered, that is how you eat it - etc.

Wow, that's taking things pretty literally on the garnish piece. The two ribs (or only having five for those who can't count) or brisket not being fully sliced (Beam Boys Mod) is a pretty established and well known situation. I gotta say that this is the first time I've ever heard about eating parsley if its stuck to your piece of chicken.

Who taught your CBJ class? I know it was recent. I haven't judged in almost three years, but I have been a judge since 2000 and competing since 2001. Never heard of that garnish/taste rule.

 

[Plowboy]

Phil's hair example would have to be a DQ. If a tiny piece of foil found in the box or part of a tooth pick can get you DQ'd, then certainly a hair can.

Mmmmm DQ. Now I want ice cream.

 

[swamprb]

OK- Now think this over.
The Parsley beds that I have noticed and judged were just that, meticulously snipped and trimmed bottom layers, upon which HEAVILY sauced Chicken Thighs were laid and filled in with more Parsley. Of course when they were judged on Appearance you could sense the OOHHS and AHHHS, then as they are being passed around, picked out and set on the placemat, you notice or feel people trying to shake it off as its sticking all over each piece by now and you end up with what looks like a "CHIA" thigh!!! Nothing I saw resembled the parsley pics above. It wasn't just "a" piece, it was a matt of it. I watched a guy trimming a flat of parsley on a Saturday and the way he was going at it made me think he'd trimmed his share of bud back in the day, Sunday he got a RGC. I talked to other cooks that said they had tried parsley and tanked that weekend and hadn't used it since.
I still think it looks nice.

 

[slat]

If you DQ for a hair then if a piece of garnish comes out then would that not make it a foreign object. It's not supposed to be on the meat. I believe the pulling thing off is meant for like if you see a minced onion and you don't like onions or a pepper or the skin off of chicken.

 

[slat]

As Swamprb said above you see people trying to shake off the parsley. The Table Captains and Reps see judges doing this and they don't try to stop them from doing it. So are the Table Captains and Reps not doing their jobs or is it something that is understood not to be judged?

 

[BBQchef33]

Pull the skin off the chicken.?? Thats another peeve.. IMO, It should be sampled. Its got all the goodness on it.

But the point i was trying to make is that there are things in the box we just deal with accordingly.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Andy, are you chittin' me???? If a piece of parsley stuck to a meat sample, in your opinion, it stays on and contributes to the flavor, good or bad??? That's just wrong! It is completely obvious that this is not what cooks intended to do. Dude, I think you need to get a CBJ refresher! :lol:

Is it obvious that this is January in the midwest by the threads? SHEESH!

 

[Plowboy]

Pull the skin off the chicken.?? Thats another peeve.. IMO, It should be sampled. Its got all the goodness on it.

But the point i was trying to make is that there are things in the box we just deal with accordingly.

If you DQ for a hair then if a piece of garnish comes out then would that not make it a foreign object. It's not supposed to be on the meat. I believe the pulling thing off is meant for like if you see a minced onion and you don't like onions or a pepper or the skin off of chicken.

The hair is a foreign object in the box. The only thing allowed in the box are meat and garnish defined as leafy green lettuce, curly/flat leaf parsley, or cilantro. Its a DQ to me.

That would be my ruling if I was a rep. Oops, a hair. Just pick it off. Oops, a toothpick. Just pull it out. That doesn't work for me. Its a foreign object. Keep your hair outta your box.

Oh, and its just plain gross. :wink:

 

[Ford]

Hair is not a DQ

The hair is a foreign object in the box. The only thing allowed in the box are meat and garnish defined as leafy green lettuce, curly/flat leaf parsley, or cilantro. Its a DQ to me.

That would be my ruling if I was a rep. Oops, a hair. Just pick it off. Oops, a toothpick. Just pull it out. That doesn't work for me. Its a foreign object. Keep your hair outta your box.

Oh, and its just plain gross. :wink:

The KCBS has stated that a hair in the box is not grounds for a DQ. The reason is that once that box is habded over to the volunteers it is opened and it's possible for a hair to get in the box at that time. This is a fact people. Foil or a toothpick would have been put in by the team so it is a DQ.

The judging class now should be teaching that a hair is not a DQ and all the Reps know this. However it may influence the judge in his/her taste score. And I believe if a judge refuses to sample an entry for any reason other than raw meat, then it is given a 9 as the score.

And I'm really surprised that a judge would be foolish enough to eat a piece of garnish stuck to the meat. You have a chance to taste some of the best Q ever cooked and you choose to eat parsley instead.

 

[tonto1117]

I took my judding class from Mike Lake. This very issue came up in the class....asked by myself. I was told it was fine to pull the piece of parsley off, and then sample the piece of chicken.

 

[scottyd]

The Hair could be from a pastry brush? from putting on your sauce or glaze. This is not a DQ area.

 

[YankeeBBQ]

Are you talking to me?
If so--serious as a heart attack.

There are folks out there that think garnish is not "scorable" since it is "optional".
Simply wrong.

Those same folks (one of which is a vocal member here) will tell ya that "garnish makes the meat look better", or stuff to that effect.

So, I should give credit for a great looing garnish box, but ignore one that is poorly done??? I think not!

You simply can not have it both ways.

If you elect to use it, it can and will be used in the scoring.

Great garnish should help the scoring somewhere.
Crappy garnish should result in deducts for being crappy.

And, if it sticks to the meat, the cook obviously felt that was fine and it should be judged accordingly.

Simple. Not rocket science.

TIM

You shouldn't be a judge

 

[YankeeBBQ]

I have to say Tim is spot on...


Yes, you can get marked down on taste. KCBS states you should judge the meat as presented. You cannot take stuff off of it, pull it apart from another piece, etc. If two pieces stick together, that is how you get it... if it is salad covered, that is how you eat it - etc.



Wow. Not sure what they were thinking... The people at those judging tables were lucky :wink:



We've always been told to judge it as it arrives. In our CBJ class examples, we had an entry where two ribs were stuck together. We could not pull them apart. We also had chopped brisket on a chopped wilted lettuce bed - the sauced brisket, kept the lettuce... we were told to judge it as it was presented.

I think your taking the instructions a little too literally. Once you get the sample on your plate you can do with it what you want. You can seperate those two ribs or two pieces of brisket, if not you would have to shove the whole sample in your mouth. You don't do that do you ?

 

[Plowboy]

Thanks for clarifying the hair.

Wow, we need get cooking instead of splitting hairs. I know I'm ready.

 

[Plowboy]

The Hair could be from a pastry brush? from putting on your sauce or glaze. This is not a DQ area.

I'm kinda surprised that Phil's brisket pants haven't made it into this conversation yet.

 

[BBQchef33]

I'm kinda surprised that Phil's brisket pants haven't made it into this conversation yet.

For the record. Brisket pants were a DQ. We were late because of it. (Actually, we were just farking around to much in general).

RE: the hair.

If I remember correctly, We were told in our class its our choice how to handle it( a hair), but its 'encouraged' to just remove it and move on because it can come from anywhere after the box is opened. Personally, i would just remove it and not slam the cook for it. So to me its a non issue.

Basting brush is a different issue. Its pretty easy to differentiate a hair from a pastry brush bristle(most of the time). Personally, i would be able to overlook the hair more so than the pastry brush. A brush bristle is obviously the fault of the cook. The hair can come from anywhere, and face it, as gross as it is, they are a fact of life. As long as people are preparing the food, a hair may wind up in there. Someone somewhere right now has a hair in their breakfast, but not a brush bristle.

I would need to look up again how to handle a bristle officially, because after all this chatter, i'm not 100% sure what they said to do. I thought(pretty sure) a hair was was discretionary. But for a bristle, right now if i was sitting at a table, i would bring it to the attention of the table captain and maybe down score the appearance unless i was told to ignore it or DQ(or give a 1). I need to ask jerry about this one.

BTW.. If anyone every got a hair in one of my boxes, keep in mind it DEFINATLEY did not come from ME, I got as much hair as this thing-> :mrgreen:

Back on topic. Parlsey is garnish and ya don't eat garnish unless your a vegan. :tongue:

 

[KC_Bobby]

Yeah, what's this hair thing? I kind of remember having it in high school.