KCBS "lower level" ToY contest

[Smokin' Gnome BBQ]

us little guys just have to face it, it shouldnt happen. it would be a nitemare to keep track of , people would cheat etc.. If you want to be in that race you really need to have the money and commitment, I personally like watching the standings and seeing the who's who..

 

[Fat Woody]

As one of those guys who only gets to cook a handful of contests a year, I would like to see some alternative, be it TOY or something else.

I think an "Over/Under" approach might work; set the number of contests somewhere between 10 and 15 (12?) and take the best five results for Under and the best ten for Over. Heck, you could do three categories: 5-10, 11-20, 21+ if you wanted. Right now it seems the only way to win TOY is to cook 30+ contests a year and for those who do, their accomplishments should not be diminished. These teams are the some of the best ambassadors for BBQ & KCBS; the time, money and dedication they invest should be rewarded! The majority of prize money and accolades should go to them. So maybe if you want to compete in the "Under" class, you declare so at each KCBS contest and pony up a few extra dollars to the "Under" trophy fund.

I feel that for those of us who compete less for whatever reason (I happen to work weekends in the warmer months) there should be something to shoot for. While I enjoy competing whenever I can now, I would definitely compete more (or at least try to) if I had a shot at a title. I don't see how creating an "Under" class would be anything but a positive for competitive BBQ.

I don't think it would attract a lot of new teams. Frankly I didn't know (or care) that there was a TOY competition for several years, but as teams get a bit more serious about competing, I think most would try to extend their season to win a title. It doesn't have to be like Scouts or soccer where everyone gets a prize, we are talking about awarding ONE (maybe two?) additional TOY title or calling it something completely different. State or regional titles would be cool too as an option. Looking forward to the continued debate!

 

[Q-Dat]

How about if we allow teams to cook as many contests as they want, but only use the scores from 15 or 20 of them towards T.O.Y. If you cook more than that you are allowed to submit your highest scores and leave out the lower ones. This could be a priviledge for the teams willing to cook more.

Then for the teams that cook less contests you could do the same thing, and only use the top 5 or 10 scores.

This will never happen, but as I typed this idea out the more I liked it!

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

How about if we allow teams to cook as many contests as they want, but only use the scores from 15 or 20 of them towards T.O.Y. If you cook more than that you are allowed to submit your highest scores and leave out the lower ones. This could be a priviledge for the teams willing to cook more.

Then for the teams that cook less contests you could do the same thing, and only use the top 5 or 10 scores.

This will never happen, but as I typed this idea out the more I liked it!

That's how it works now.

 

[boogiesnap]

just call it something else.

TOY is more than just how well you can cook, and the team that earns it deserves THAT title.

 

[Todd Ras]

First, I’m a huge opponent of the “giving everyone a trophy” mentality. A participation award only breeds mediocrity. I just don’t see how that plays into this at all. If this was about giving out awards for DAL in categories then I see the point.

As a team who only cooks 5 contests a year I love the idea behind this. I know going into the season we won’t be competing for the TOY and that is OUR choice. We don’t blame anyone for that. We are a younger team who all have little kids. We choose not to do more contests and respect the sacrifice and skill it takes to compete for the TOY.

So, if we are stuck on the title of “TOY” why not make this a different thing all together like others have said. Maybe it could be called Class B Champion or Small Class Champion. We can leave TOY out of it all together. My question to you guys who do 15+ comps a year would be if there was a separate title for this that didn’t affect the TOY standings would that work? Would that diminish the accomplishment of TOY?

Even though we suck, I remember checking the rankings all the time after contests. We know we won’t be at the top, but we still check! It’s a little hard to find a true rating on how you’re doing overall when you’re up against teams competing 4 times as much as you. Great, I’m ranked 492nd in Brisket after 5 contest. I would rather know I’m ranked 44th out of 200 teams who have cooked 5 contests.

I think if they did a separate small division class champion it would help teams like ours and others judge how we’re doing and give us another chance to compete for a yearlong goal. That way we can still go toe-to-toe with the big guys at all the contests, but it would give us little teams something else to shoot for overall.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Please don't get Mike fired up. I'm the one that has to cook against him every friggin week :laugh:

now you know how I feel when I see your rig pull in!ray:

Me too

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

us little guys just have to face it, it shouldnt happen. it would be a nitemare to keep track of , people would cheat etc.. If you want to be in that race you really need to have the money and commitment, I personally like watching the standings and seeing the who's who..

The scores are already published and logged for every contest.
Imput them into a database program and hola! team rankings...

You just assign another simple bit of code to make a new column that lists every team that cooks below x number of contests.

The team at the top of the list wins.

Probably a bit more to it than that, but not much.


As far as a name...

KCBS Intermediate Champion -

i.e. middle of the road...not in skills but in competition. They are not backyard, but not TOY competitors yet...does this meet approval?

 

[Q-Dat]

That's how it works now.

So as of right now, KCBS Team of the year is decided exactly the way I said it?

Because I was under the impression that it was a simple points total.

 

[sitnfat]

I think instead of doing a series of 5 or less comps which there are tons of teams that dont cook so much and if you set those guidelines there will be a lot that make their 5 comps then you will have tons of ties. Why doesnt KCBS focus on establishing state championships. I cooked 6 contests my first year 10 last year in several differant states now if TN had a championship I would make a run at being state champion and cook primaral here.

 

[Coz]

Again speaking for myself. I guess I dont have an idea to make something for those who cook less contests . We are one of the teams who cook 10 or less. But to me TOY means january to december coast to coast regardless of contests cooked. I would imagine on a good year we could give a dern good run in a 5 contest count but some how to me it just doesnt seem to be a TOY kinda effort. Perhaps some kinda regional deal?

 

[G$]

If it was called the "BBQ Sprint" award, would that make everyone happy instead of "Team of the Year"?

The point wasn't to make it a "participation trophy", the point was to recognize the best teams that compete far less frequently than the true Team of the Year road warriors.

I don't get the enmity. (I do get the challenges related to how easy it would be to even pull off tracking one of these)

 

[Rich Parker]

Is the current ToY program really made for the road warriors if it is only the top 10 comps?

Teams that cook 30+ comps a year are being penalized to use only their top 10.

 

[drbbq]

Lets make it like kids soccer and give everyone a trophy.

I'm against both of these things for the same reason. Sometimes in life you have to accept that you aren't the winner and it's nobody's fault. Maybe the other kids(cooks) are better than you and maybe t's because their parents have the money for a private coach (or they can afford to cook 30 contests) but either way you don't get to be the champion if you didn't win and that's the way that the world goes around.

 

[Q-Dat]

That's how it works now.

So as of right now, KCBS Team of the year is decided exactly the way I said it?

Because I was under the impression that it was a simple points total.

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

So as of right now, KCBS Team of the year is decided exactly the way I said it?

Because I was under the impression that it was a simple points total.

Best 10 scores no matter how many you cook drop the lowest scores.

 

[Q-Dat]

Best 10 scores no matter how many you cook drop the lowest scores.

Haha wow! Ok so the great idea I had is whats already in place! I feel like a tool! :screwy:

Oh well I still have my idea of cooking chicken thighs in a pan of butter! I gotta get movin on that before someone else thinks of it!

 

[Fat Woody]

Is the current ToY program really made for the road warriors if it is only the top 10 comps?

Teams that cook 30+ comps a year are being penalized to use only their top 10.

I'm not sure I follow your logic RP; if I have a pool of 30 to pick from to make my 10 best, isn't that better than only having a pool of 10? I mean, isn't that why we cook more than six pieces of chicken for a comp, so we have more choices to make our best box? I don't see how that is a penalty, but then, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the drawer either!

I'm a little surprised at how much opposition there is from some of the more accomplished brethren to even discussing some alternative title or program for teams that will never contend for TOY. I understand that TOY is extremely difficult to achieve and nobody wants to dilute the TOY program here. I think the concept should be different from TOY altogether, using another name for the program if it is instituted by KCBS. Maybe what we're talking about is more like a Pro/Am division or something. I'm just thinking out loud here and this may not be what Candy had in mind at all, but why be so quick to throw the concept under the bus?

I seriously doubt that any of us part-timers have the illusion that we're the next QUAU, Pellet Envy, Dr. BBQ, etc., but according to the minutes from the last board meeting, over 14,000 teams cooked at KCBS comps last year. As stated previously, it seems like there might be a way to encourage the 98% that will never make a run at TOY to compete more without having to resort to handing out trophies for participation (I HATE that as much as anybody!). Most sports find a way to divide when they reach numbers that become unwieldy, and frankly who really cares who the 2011th ranked team is (well alright, I do, cuz it was us!)? Maybe a KCBS divisional system is needed, then you could even have a playoff scenario. Sounds like fun to me and it doesn't have to affect TOY. The objective should be to foster more participation in a way that does not detract from TOY and I think it can be done.

This seems to have really struck a nerve with some of you; I value the input from you guys that have been there and done it more than anyone, so can't we at least have a friendly discussion about some options?

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

I'm against both of these things for the same reason. Sometimes in life you have to accept that you aren't the winner and it's nobody's fault. Maybe the other kids(cooks) are better than you and maybe t's because their parents have the money for a private coach (or they can afford to cook 30 contests) but either way you don't get to be the champion if you didn't win and that's the way that the world goes around.

Maybe you have an amazing kid (cook) who has a special needs child and can only cook a few contests a year, not due to private coaching (affording to cook 30 contests) but because they choose the love of their child over their love of BBQ...

I met one such cook last year...some of the best Q I have ever tasted, and I have tasted ALOT. He could do maybe 4 contests a year, thats it. This is the kind of person I think of when I think of this program.

No one has given a real valid reason to not do this program... It has just been opinions along the lines of "thats the way it is, deal with it"

 

[Ford]

Is the current ToY program really made for the road warriors if it is only the top 10 comps?

Teams that cook 30+ comps a year are being penalized to use only their top 10.

In the FBA all contests count. And category results add into overall. You need to cook most to win but can cook 10-15 and win if you pull enough gc and first place calls.