KCBS "lower level" ToY contest

[Ford]

How about a playoff instead. 5 regions based on where you live. All gc's invited to regional, top 5 from regional invited to national. KCBS runs regionals and national and uses the current TOY money for prizes. Make it July 1 to June 30 for qualifying.

Apparently they already have regional info available based on population.

 

[Mike - CSBBBQ]

Please don't get Mike fired up. I'm the one that has to cook against him every friggin week :laugh:

Dan, you Sal and Mike are toooo funny we gotta cook against you guys every week! Besides our Diva was pointing out you only need to have good results at 10 comps. Of course easier said than done.

 

[Mike - CSBBBQ]

How about a playoff instead. 5 regions based on where you live. All gc's invited to regional, top 5 from regional invited to national. KCBS runs regionals and national and uses the current TOY money for prizes. Make it July 1 to June 30 for qualifying.

Apparently they already have regional info available based on population.

We are going to regional reps aren't we? Sounds like an idea to be explored Ford. Maybe an additional deal in additiona to Sam's and current TOY.

 

[Rich Parker]

I'm not sure I follow your logic RP; if I have a pool of 30 to pick from to make my 10 best, isn't that better than only having a pool of 10? I mean, isn't that why we cook more than six pieces of chicken for a comp, so we have more choices to make our best box? I don't see how that is a penalty, but then, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the drawer either!

I'm a little surprised at how much opposition there is from some of the more accomplished brethren to even discussing some alternative title or program for teams that will never contend for TOY. I understand that TOY is extremely difficult to achieve and nobody wants to dilute the TOY program here. I think the concept should be different from TOY altogether, using another name for the program if it is instituted by KCBS. Maybe what we're talking about is more like a Pro/Am division or something. I'm just thinking out loud here and this may not be what Candy had in mind at all, but why be so quick to throw the concept under the bus?

I seriously doubt that any of us part-timers have the illusion that we're the next QUAU, Pellet Envy, Dr. BBQ, etc., but according to the minutes from the last board meeting, over 14,000 teams cooked at KCBS comps last year. As stated previously, it seems like there might be a way to encourage the 98% that will never make a run at TOY to compete more without having to resort to handing out trophies for participation (I HATE that as much as anybody!). Most sports find a way to divide when they reach numbers that become unwieldy, and frankly who really cares who the 2011th ranked team is (well alright, I do, cuz it was us!)? Maybe a KCBS divisional system is needed, then you could even have a playoff scenario. Sounds like fun to me and it doesn't have to affect TOY. The objective should be to foster more participation in a way that does not detract from TOY and I think it can be done.

This seems to have really struck a nerve with some of you; I value the input from you guys that have been there and done it more than anyone, so can't we at least have a friendly discussion about some options?

Your correct that they use there top comps which is an advantage to just cooking 10 but the disadvantage is that they should be able to count comp 11 - 30 if it was a true points race.

 

[Alexa RnQ]

And so it used to be, but then the cry went up that the "little teams" were getting hosed, so it was changed to best 10. Which I think is a very accessible midpoint across an incredibly broad range of endeavor.

 

[drbbq]

I wonder how many golfers think there should be a US Open for guys who aren't able to make it to the real one? Surely there are plenty of low handicappers that could make it if they could play golf every week, but that's not how it works. Sorry but I just don't see the point of any kind of second tier TOY.

 

[Brew-B-Q]

I think the whole concept of only counting 10 competitions is ridiculous. Does the Cy Young winner get judged on his 10 best starts? Every competition should count. Either as a true points race where it is cumulative, or as an average per competition (with a minimum # of at bats).

10 seems like a reasonable minimum.

If someone cooks 10 times and wins 4 GC, is that better or worse than someone that cooks 30 times and wins 6 GC? Under the current system, it would most likely benefit the person that cooks the most. And maybe that's the point...

So why not have a "Top Performer" award and an "Ironman" award. Former is an average of all comps with 10 comp minimum, latter is a true cumulative points race. If someone can win them both in the same year, there is no doubt who the best cook is.

 

[Pappy Q]

Every sport has a "minor" or "developmental" league/division. Those leagues/divisions have winners and awards, this would seem to be the same concept.

 

[Q-Dat]

Nascar uses the overall points total. However most of them are in the same number of races.

I'm a long way from ever doing 10+ KCBS events in a year, so for my own sake, I don't really care how they do it, but would you really want to be the team that won Team of the Year simply because you were able to cook more contests? What does that prove other than you have the time, and resources to travel more?



Edit: This is not a dig at the teams who cook 30+ contests a year. I know that all of the guys thatvare doing that are top notch cooks. If I had the freedom to do it, I probably would too!

 

[Brew-B-Q]

How many bad teams cook 10+ contests per year? Consistently in the bottom third of every competition. Does being a good cook lead to cooking more frequently, or do you become a good cook by cooking frequently.

 

[Capn Kev]

How many bad teams cook 10+ contests per year? Consistently in the bottom third of every competition. Does being a good cook lead to cooking more frequently, or do you become a good cook by cooking frequently.

From my perspective (I cook 10-12 contests a year)...

There are a ton of teams that cook 10 or so comps a year and are middle of the pack, always. There are also a lot of teams that cook that same amount, that can come out and beat any team on any given day. Their resources to cook more than 10 comps a year may be limited, and therefore they cannot (and may not want to) aspire to TOY level.

Frankly, I do not see the need to change the TOY program to meet the needs of the "10-a-year" competition teams. As mentioned, I do 10-12 a year, and if I do well I have some opportunities for recognition via the American Royal invitational, or (if really lucky) the Jack Daniel's Invitational.

That's just my 2 cents

Kevin

 

[RangerJ]

Lets make it like kids soccer and give everyone a trophy.

Not sure what soccer league this is, but surely not the ones my kids played in.

If they give me a chance to compete for some lesser title I will until I have the time and resources to do 10 KCBS per year.

If not, I'll keep cooking and having fun. After all, it's only BBQ.

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

I saw the US Open and NASCAR used as a reference

The US Open is 1 of the big four golf tournaments, much like we have The Royal, the Jack, MIM, and the Texas Rodeo in BBQ

The US Open is just 1 contest the the USGA organizes...It would be the Jack Invitational of golf as it brings in winners of different golf divisions, much like the winner of MIM, MBN, KCBS...etc are invited to the Jack

The USGA organization runs 10 Championships under its umbrella. The US Amateur Championship, the Seniors Championship, the Junior Amateur, and the Public Links are 4 of the 10 different divisions within the USGA...

So applying KCBS to this model, TOY would actually be the PGA's Player of the Year Award, BUT, the PGA runs 3 different divisions inside of its organization...including:

The Nationwide Tour is the developmental tour for the U.S.-based PGA Tour, and features professional golfers who have either failed to score well enough at that level's Qualifying School (the main tour's qualifying tournament, popularly referred to as "Q-School") to earn their PGA Tour card, or who have done so but then failed to win enough money to stay at that level. Those who are on the top 25 of the money list at year's end are given PGA Tour memberships for the next season.

So Golf does have a program much like the one we are discussing here.

You have these types of awards in almost every organization:

The Grammys, ACM'S, CMA's, etc. awards "Best Radio Station of the Year" according to market size...
small, mid, large market or...
1-5 contests a year, 6-10 contests a year, 10+ contests a year...

ALL Major US sports added together have fewer than 5% of the number of teams that KCBS has...

NASCAR has 38
Baseball has 30
Football has 32
Basketball has 30
Hockey has 30
Soccer has 20

We have an organization of over 5000 teams...

And all we do in KCBS is a Team of the Year award, that is always won by teams that can cook over 20 contests a year.

Sounds ALOT like the "GOOD OLE BOYS CLUB" that I have seen many of you preach against.

So why not "Amateur Champion" if you enter 1-5 contests
and "Intermediate Champion" if you enter 6-10 contests

And of course the PRESTIGIOUS, COVETED, ULTRA-EXCLUSIVE Team of the Year - 10+ contests

This would include the entire KCBS organization (not just the rich kids), and its not an "everybody gets an award" like kindergarten...only 3 awards are given out of 5000 teams, and it doesn't demean the TOY in any way.

 

[SHBBQ]

I would love to see an actual average of of all contests cooked with a minimum of 10 to qualify. if u only cook 10 you have no margin of error as it stands right now, where as you can tank 20 and cook good in 10 of 30 and still win TOY. what makes the team that nails it 33% of the time better than a team who nails it 100% of the time? that being said, the guys that compete for TOY every year, never only nail it 33% of the time! but my thought would, in theory, even things out a little.

Now I consider myself on a "little team" who can compete with the big boys. I know the "big teams" were "little teams" once. so we will work my butt off, pay our dues, try to grow in every way possible, so 20 years from now, we will be considered a "big team" at which point we will not care what system is put in front of us, we're just gonna cook, and love every minute of it!

 

[82's BBQ]

I chuckled when I saw this post because my wife and I were discussing this very same idea a few days ago. My thinking was take the top 100 teams from the year before and have them compete against each other as a "tour", much like NASCAR. Each state can host an event and thereby requires each team to have to compete in a different region, with different styles/tastes. The rest of the teams continue to compete in the same events that we are used to competing in. If we are good enough to place in the top 100 then we would get the honor to compete on the "tour".

 

[kihrer]

Since most small teams most likely cook within the same region, why not have a regional ToY for the five regions? So Small Team BBQ could compete in say Region 5, and his top 5 contests would count toward Region 5 ToY. Big Team BBQ, on the other hand, could compete in Region 5's ToY using his top 5 contests in that region and may also compete in Region 4's ToY using his top 5 results in that region - and so on and so on for any other region that Big Team BBQ competes in. In addition to the regions, Big Team BBQ would compete for National ToY in the same manner he does today.

With this system, In all likelihood, the best teams will still take the regional ToY honors but it gives us a chance to see if some of the small teams are actually competitive with the big guys over more than just one cook. It also lets a small team, that doesn't compete out of his region, know how he compares against others within the region.

This method wouldn't hand out trophies to anyone other than the best cooks within a region and the best cook nationally. I think it encourages small teams to compete at least 5 times within their region and maybe even more. For the big teams, it gives you an opportunity to win even more. For those teams that place say 3rd or 4th in the current ToY, you may be able to claim bragging rights for your region with a first place trophy and prize money.

One other thing this might do is take the 30 plus cooks a year team and spread them out over more regions. Someone may want to go for the grand slam and try to win all five regions plus the National ToY!

 

[Scottie]

Don't we already have a championship for teams that cook a few? It's called Sams Club Series. Only takes 3 contests to be the best. No confusion and everyone can play. Then those that only cook 3 contests can get there shot... To me everything else is just the same as NCAA college football.

 

[sitnfat]

A team that is only cooking a couple contests a year is not going to Bentonville.

 

[Scottie]

There were 7 teams that cooked less than 10 contests in Bentonville. RC cooked 10 last year. So I'd argue against that point.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Since most small teams most likely cook within the same region, why not have a regional ToY for the five regions?

We (MABA) already have a ToY and I believe NEBS and the FBA have them as well.