KCBS CBJ Class in FL Oct. 17

[wsm]

When I took the class (spring 05) they seemed to concentrate on the rules - what is / is not allowed. Boxes were DQed for numerous reasons - but in the short time that I have been judging I have never seen a box DQed.

I had hoped for instruction in how to judge taste, texture and appearance but those are a biotch to teach and it is easy to teach that you must have 6 visible pieces.

What were the BASICS that the Florida class stessed?

I am looking forward to attending a CBJ class from Ed Roith in Jan 06.

 

[smokincracker]

Me & Ed

Giving Dr. Death the Squeeze

 

[chad]

Yes the basics were stressed - Ed gave a few tips. Things about skin/no skin, preference vs. what you're really there to do, filling out the forms, etc. All this is BASIC because, normally, if you're taking the class you've never judged before. A lot of new judges haven't ever read the KCBS (or other association's) rules.

I've seen and been involved with a few DQs - wrong meat turned in, bloody chicken (one time valid and another marginal but the rep upheld it), parted out sliced pork (think about it - you can't have bark or smoke ring around the "loin" part of the butt if it's cooked legally!), I know of a couple of "less than 6 portions"...it happens and often to really good teams.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

Greg and I had a really good instructor (Mike Lake) who not only went over the rules, but tried to put a subjective basis for texture. His wife was out doing all the boxes so some presentations where great, and some intentionally used wrong lettuce to test us.

Brisket, pulling apart, slight tug then break away. Greg did that, and had a perfect tug, I did that, and it was like a rubber band. Just refused to break.

On ribs, he was trying to set up a framework in our minds about 1 bite, slight tug, leaving a bite mark and a white bone. Some where perfect, some the whole rib came out.

They showed a chicken breast in the chicken category. Presentation was dead on, but score all over based on dryness. Set this up against moist thigh and drummies.

They also tried to set up a framework for the very wide open taste portion. They did this by have some sauces hotter, some little vinegary, some very sauced, and some very salty.

So we had the rules and the "basics" where all about setting up a framework to base a judges decision.

 

[wsm]

Sounds like a good class, but I have a small problem with the brisket pull test - since meat can be presented chopped, pulled, chunked or sliced, you cannot be sure that you will get a slice, especially not a slice the thickness of a pencil - but the pull test is a good way to start

I have not seen any DQ'ed boxes, but I have heard about them - less than 6 SEPERATE ribs (not completely cut), or foreign mattter (lettuce core) in the box.

The CBJ class that I took was also taught by Mike Lake, with Theresa assisting Smokin' Ts on the boxes - I don't remember some of the stuff that you mention.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Sounds like a great class, Bill... I'm hoping the St. Louis class is as good.

Greg and I had a really good instructor (Mike Lake) who not only went over the rules, but tried to put a subjective basis for texture. His wife was out doing all the boxes so some presentations where great, and some intentionally used wrong lettuce to test us.

Brisket, pulling apart, slight tug then break away. Greg did that, and had a perfect tug, I did that, and it was like a rubber band. Just refused to break.

On ribs, he was trying to set up a framework in our minds about 1 bite, slight tug, leaving a bite mark and a white bone. Some where perfect, some the whole rib came out.

They showed a chicken breast in the chicken category. Presentation was dead on, but score all over based on dryness. Set this up against moist thigh and drummies.

They also tried to set up a framework for the very wide open taste portion. They did this by have some sauces hotter, some little vinegary, some very sauced, and some very salty.

So we had the rules and the "basics" where all about setting up a framework to base a judges decision.

 

[smokincracker]

Brisket!! You better slice it.

WSM

Dr. Death emphasized the fact that chopped or pulled brisket indicated potentially overcooked meat. He went on to explain that thicker cuts of meat would also indicate that the product was overcooked. Then some discussion followed concerning a potential rule that would force competitors to turn in a slice no thicker than a pencil. Death said that he him-self has lobbied KCBS to implement that rule with no success. (Thankfully) He said it would make it easier for the judges to identify properly cooked brisket. He explained that a good way to determine if a meat is overcooked or has no texture. Hold the bite of meat on the roof of your mouth with your tongue and if the meat dissolves it is overcooked or has no TEXTURE. I am anxious to see how long it will take brisket to actually dissolve in your mouth no mater how over cooked it is? Gives new meaning to melt in your mouth good!!! Huh

 

[wsm]

Well, I gotta agree about "mouthfeel" but I don't think that chunks (burnt ends) pulled or thick slices necessarily mean overcooked.

Put it in your mouth and check the texture.

But if you have suitable slices, the pull test is a good way to START

 

[chad]

Rich,

As a competitor - believe me - if a box of brisket comes around with thick or very thin slices or no slices at all - it's overcooked.

Thick slices are an indication that "perhaps" the meat won't hold together in a pencil thick slice (that's the IBCA-Texas rule) and very thin slices indicated that "perhaps" the meat is still tough.

Now, you as the judge use whatever method is comfortable for you to do the initial check.

Pulling the ends is a "standard" test.

I always use it and then bite and taste the brisket. I also check out any bark or pulled meat in the box, too. Usually (not always), the burnt ends or pulled/chopped meat will have more flavor than the slices - I use every element they present to arrive at a fair scoring.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

The CBJ class that I took was also taught by Mike Lake, with Theresa assisting Smokin' Ts on the boxes - I don't remember some of the stuff that you mention.

I'm not surprised. We might have received two totally different classes.

The audience definitely made the class what it was. Mike seemed to be going by a general outline, but he's done it so many times, that he just followed a "game plan". Plenty of times, he would get interupted by some very eager people and he would delve into the small things thats make something what it is.

We had one lady that just wouldn't shut up. But some of her comments brought up different subjects of discussion. I recall about 3.5-4 hours of rules and discussion, followed by 2.5 hours of tasting.

Best part, he went around the room and had people explain high or low scores. It was interesting to see visual "hands up" that the majority of the time, you were in the "area" of others on certain boxes (all 7 tables got the same "entry" box, so we could compare as a group)

Most of us nailed the salty, the hot, the sauced, etc.

I would actually take it again, with another instructor, just to get a more rounded perspective.