Judges and burnt ends

[INmitch]

What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.

 

[Uncle Buds BBQ]

Melt in your mouth nuggets of caramelized beefy deliciousness

THAT'S what I want to see in a box!!! :-o

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

Pappy - Last week at Benton 3 of the 6 boxes that crossed my table had Burnt Ends in them. Although I really shouldn't call them that since they were no more than cubed brisket. All 3 had the same color and bark as the the slices. 2 of the 3 had a high fat content so I assume it came from the point but the other looked and tasted like it came from the flat.

In my mind Burnt Ends should be just that. Dark, crispy outside...burnt....moist, fatty inside.

So...I didn't score down for them but these teams didn't get any extra points for them.

Dave

Not everybody cooks the same way. It's going to be hard for teams to win when judges are scoring according to their own personal definition of what burnt ends should be. Did it look good? Taste good? Tender? I don't remember any bonus points for things that are or aren't in the box and I don't remember getting direction from KCBS on what exactly burnt ends should look like. I would hope somebody would tell me if theres a standard I'm being held to.

 

[Big Poppa]

I love this thread. Love it. I hate more rules but really this is such a interesting decision at EVERY comp for us...Seems like You should either have to have them or not.

But I respect the insight and Im leaving them out from now on....

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

I love this thread. Love it. I hate more rules but really this is such a interesting decision at EVERY comp for us...Seems like You should either have to have them or not.

But I respect the insight and Im leaving them out from now on....

These are our results from last year. Comp to comp brisket is our most consistent in flavor and tenderness IMO.

Benton - 10th
Liberty - 1st
Louisville - 1st
Lebanon - 1st
Jeffersonville - 10th
Jasper - 11th
Madison - 16 (ouch)
Owensboro - 1st
Springfield - 4th
Munfordville - 13th

Everyone of those comps had burnt ends in the box. I'm starting to think I was hurt by them on a few comps. I don't know If I have the guts to leave them out. Seems like you are rewarded when you hit a table with judges who like them and penalized when you hit a table with judges who don't. Maybe it is safer to leave them out and offend no one.

 

[gmholler]

I don't think thats what she meant. I believe the only part she "hates" is trying to decide how to score a box that has good slices and bad burnt ends or vice versa. Potentially you could have a sliced entry that would have scored perfect, but gets brought down because of tough gristly "burnt ends".

Yes, exactly! I think part of the problem is that a lot of new cookers don't understand that there is something specific that is meant by "burnt ends"; they see their neighbor putting what looks like chunks of their brisket in their turn-in box, and sometimes what they're putting in glistens, so that must be fat, so they'd better put it in their box, too, 'cause, well, their neighbor has cooked lots of these contests and knows what wins...

Lynn H.

 

[tdwalker]

My experience judging has been about 40% include burnt ends. I have not ever lowered a score because of them (but would if they were worse than just the sliced entry). I have increased the score when the burnt ends add to the quality of the box.

I judge in the mid-atlantic region.

Also, to agree with what Uncle Bud said, a large amount of the "burnt ends" are really just cubed brisket, sauced, with no other preparation.

 

[Q-Dat]

Yes, exactly! I think part of the problem is that a lot of new cookers don't understand that there is something specific that is meant by "burnt ends"; they see their neighbor putting what looks like chunks of their brisket in their turn-in box, and sometimes what they're putting in glistens, so that must be fat, so they'd better put it in their box, too, 'cause, well, their neighbor has cooked lots of these contests and knows what wins...

Lynn H.

Lynn, next time I see you at a comp, I'm gonna let you try our burnt ends after the judging. Haha I know you have already tried them once before, but this time I promise there won't be any Cumin in the rub!

 

[Capn Kev]

As I judge, I *HATE* when they're served because I know what's coming, but I dutifully try them...and usually, they're just chunks of gristle. When they're not, usually the sliced brisket that is served with them tastes like shoe leather and I'm stuck trying to figure out how I should score decent burnt ends and sliced brisket where the cow obviously died in vain...

Lynn H.

Plain and simple... Please stop judging BBQ contests.

 

[Capn Kev]

Out of 11 comps last year... we had 5 top three brisket finishes.

2 - 1st place (including a 180)
2 - 2nd place
1 - 3rd place

We didn't put anything but slices in the box. Burnt Ends are too risky in my opinion. I'd rather turn in perfect slices, and fill the box with 'em

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

Out of 11 comps last year... we had 5 top three brisket finishes.

2 - 1st place (including a 180)
2 - 2nd place
1 - 3rd place

We didn't put anything but slices in the box. Burnt Ends are too risky in my opinion. I'd rather turn in perfect slices, and fill the box with 'em

It certainly seems like burnt ends hurt more than help.

 

[New Pal Frank]

Last weekend in Las Vegas, the table behind me turned in a box with nothing but burnt ends and scored a lot of 8's & 9's. They handed me one and it was YUMMY.
If it's good, send it in. If you don't think it's good, keep it out.

 

[Q-Dat]

Plain and simple... Please stop judging BBQ contests.

Capn Kev, if you'll read my earlier post in this thread,(I believe its the 20th one) it will explain what Lynn meant by what she said.

Lynn is a very good judge who gives comment cards when warranted. She and her husband both do alot for the competition BBQ scene down here. And as far as I am aware they don't make anything off of it.

 

[Rich Parker]

What I learned last year. I thought my burnt ends were realy good but just wasn't getting consistant good scores. I quit putting them in the second weekend in August. Here's results for the rest of the year.

Sams regional Indy 1st
Madison Ribberfest 19th...still scratching my head on this one.
Silverlake MI 3rd behind 2 No name teams Scottie and Quau.:mrgreen:
Royal Invitational 7th
Royal Open 6th
Sams Nationals 1st (180)

Needless to say the points of my briskies go into hamburger. I love my burnt ends but the judges don't so I leave them out.

Anything else you want to add...my notepad is thin. op2:

 

[nukenight]

True Q-Day, Lynn and I usually spend more money than we ever get from BBQ. I think turning in burnt ends are risky.

 

[big matt]

I have to agree with most that have already posted..if they are great and I mean great they should go in the box..our first year we had 3 1st place brisket finishes all with ends included..we had quite a few 2nd places without them this past year..all the way to Vegas we talked about wether or not we should put them in..well they were butter soft and melt in your mouth good..put them in and took 2nd..it paid off this time but like everyone has said they are a gamble.

 

[sitnfat]

Burnt ends are over rated everyone knows pulling the point is the way to go!:shocked:

 

[daedalus]

I am not sure what a "traditional" KC area burnt end is. I think I do, I have always thought that the point was cubed after cooking and then sauced, returned to the pit for X amount of time then served. Whether that is correct or not, I don't know.

Your pretty close...Assuming that you dont separate your point from the flat before it even goes on the smoker, you would want to smoke the whole brisket until the flat is done, separate the point, re-rub it, and put it back on the smoker to finish. Then you cube it up and sauce it.
Having said that, I always separate first because I feel that the two muscles are VERY different, and require a completely different cooking method to achieve wonderfulness. I treat the point more like a pork shoulder and go low and slow. The flat is much more lean, and seems to work better on a high temp, shorter smoke. Just my two cents.

Are there different ways to do burnt ends? Do all BBQ Joints in KC area sauce them?

Yes, just like with any BBQ, and not all sauce around here, but the vast majority do.

As to the question at hand, I think it may be a bit of an acquired taste. IMO Burnt ends should have a bit more chew to them...and a bit of crispness around the edges is a good thing too. They are tricky to get just right, and I can tell you that most of the burnt ends that come across my judging plates just aren't very good. But when a really really great one does happen by, it is just about my favorite thing in the world!

 

[Pappy Q]

Thanks for all the input, it's helped my decision process.

 

[Podge]

My 1st in brisket at the Jack in 2007 was with no burnt ends. My 15th in brisket at the Jack in 2008 had burnt ends.. FWIW..