Joe,
This is all REALLY great information, I think I'm getting a solid grasp on how everything works and how I could apply it to my own needs...or at least I think I'm finding clarity and direction in the information.
Allow me to delve into some of your info:
Ok, what you are looking at with that cooker is just a smoker that combines 2 smoking units in 1. You have the standard horizontal offset pit, and a vertical pit as well. Both are smokers, and neither is suited for grilling.
You would NOT be putting charcoal in that main horizontal cook chamber. The fire goes in the firebox, and from there the heat is distributed to both the horizontal and vertical cooking chambers. So regardless of whichever cooking chamber you are using, the fire and heat source is in the firebox.
Got it, neither smoker is for grilling. It's just that a horizontal smoker looks like a grill and in some units the horizontal chamber is a grill (such as the Tombstone).
Up until this moment I had erroneously thought the horizontal unit could also be grilled on by placing coals directly underneath the grid. This was my gross misunderstanding.
So to be clear, the Tombstone is a vertical smoker with an attached grill. The owner of the shop told me the firebox is beneath the vertical smoker and it does not vent or do anything for the grill. The grill is a Santa Maria style grill with the lifting/lowering rack operated by the big wheel on the side (which I feel is a classic BBQ look for a ranch). So, just to confirm: some vertical smokers have GRILLS attached while other vertical smokers have a horizontal smoker attached.
A benefit of having this unit with both the vertical and horizontal units is capacity and flexibility. Verticals are great for large capacity in a small footprint, but horizontals allow you to do big stuff like whole hogs. Also, some people use the vertical section as a warming/holding cabinet.
Now this is something I'd really like to focus on and learn about; the difference between the horizontal smoker and vertical smoker. I'm hearing everything you're saying about capacity, footprint and using the vertical section as a warmer/holding cabinet...but Joe, how do they differ in terms of their performance? Would you cook differently on one versus the other?
I may be wrong here but the vertical smoker would seem to be an even slower cooker using lower temperatures?
Then again, I've now seen 2 different styles of vertical smoker: units that have the firebox beneath the smoke chamber (as would a dedicted vertical smoker, like the BBQ Vault)
OR units that have the horizontal chamber between the vertical smoker and firebox...such as the Klose or Pitt's unit....these units put the vertical smoker all the way on the opposite side of the horizontal chamber (some 72" away)...this configuration would seem to make the vertical smoker more so ideal for warming/holding but in so far as cooking I'd imagine we're talking temps around 135-170...and I'm guessing the in-between horizontal chamber is upwards of the 200's??
I'm asking the same question in a different format, but what is the difference between a guy using a dedicated vertical smoker and the guy using a horizontal smoker with an offset firebox...or for that matter the firebox centered and beneath the main chamber vs. offset? I'd love some clarification on this....thanks!!
You would NOT be putting charcoal in that main horizontal cook chamber. The fire goes in the firebox, and from there the heat is distributed to both the horizontal and vertical cooking chambers. So regardless of whichever cooking chamber you are using, the fire and heat source is in the firebox. If somebody is telling you that you could just load up the main cooking area with coal, I am thinking they are just trying to sell a unit and not really explaining how the pit operates and if it is right for you.
Here again, my gross misunderstanding. In the case of the tombstone or Santa Maria the grill does get charcoal...but with a horizontal smoker there is no charcoal or heat source in the main chamer....as you explain, it's offset to the side or perhaps below the chamer in a seperate firebox. Got it! :biggrin1:
Your talk about charcoal. Most here would advise against lighter fluid, but then there are pros like Myron Mixon who use it all the time. What you want to use is a chimney starter or a propane weed burner. If you build a good base of ashy white coals, the fire should last a while. You increase or decrease temps by playing with the air vents. With a little practice it gets easy. That said, nothing beats the convenience of gas. It's all about tradeoffs and what works for you.
What's become evident to me is that my very limited experience with charcoal was loading some into an open grill and setting it ablaze...because it got a lot of air, it got really hot and burned-out quickly. I now understand that regulating the air entirely affects the rate of burn and temperature.
Santa Maria is the style of grilling which has its roots in South America. I was introduced to this on a trip to Argentina. It is traditionally wood but charcoal can be used. You raise and lower the grates to control the cooking temp.
My repeated reference to Santa Maria is entirely based on the long horizontal axle that runs over the grill and has large wheels that go on each side, IMO it has a classic large BBQ look...it's merely a visual feature that I envision as being part of the Ultimate BBQ set-up.
Tell me if I am wrong here but I think this is your list of needs from what I have read,
Something large and impressive for guests.
Something relatively easy to use and not requiring constant attention.
Larger capacity.
Grilling area optional.
Large & impressive...yes, because we'll occassionally use the place for location use (movies, commercials, videos, etc)...and a large unit has the quinessential ranch look...it's not just another Weber on the porch. I don't mean to sound superficial but I'm shooting for something that prompts my fellow buddies to say to each other "Dude, you gotta checkout that BBQ"...I want it to be a prominent feature of the place. We can also substitute 'large & impressive' with functional, well made, professional and "makes amazing food".
Something relatively easy to use and not requiring constant attention. Yes and no, I'm not looking for something extremely involved and requiring a lot of time and learning curve...but I'm not scared by having to do some work; anything worth having doesn't come easy! Seems like the Guru-device could make things a lot easier and take an otherwise high-maintenance unit into the realm of something more practical.
Larger capacity. Hells yes!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'm looking for something where envious people will accuse me of compensating for something or having a mid-life crisis. I'm thinking about a sign over the BBQ that reads "You can crash my truck, beat my dog, smack my wife and even steal my money...but do NOT touch my BBQ". I suspect you see where I'm going with this. :loco:
Grilling area optional. Uh, no...having given it some thought, I'm definitely going to need a super-large grilling area. When we harvest a lot of corn and want to serve it up....or have to serve hamburgers and hot dogs for some 180 people, I'm gonna need me a big-ass grill....and I'm even thinking a big gasser would be the most simple way to go.
Joe, all things considered and much based on your input and info, here is what I'm thinking at this point:
The Daily Driver...on the porch directly outside the kitchen...a 36" Crown Verity, this unit is something the wife, kids and anyone can use. It'll be a gasser and serve for weekday cooking, grilling and what-not. Simple, easy and everything I'm familiar with.
The Big Bad Boy....(what we're talking about here). I'm thinking TWO components set in the same brick enclosure. First unit, a really nice vertical smoker, the Pitmaker BBQ Vault you showed me looks AMAZING, it has 5 racks that each measure 22"x25", sealed door and a stainless steel water reservoir to keep things moist/flavorful. I'm thinking this will be my smoker. This is where I'll take it old-school authentic and have a bit of a learning curve to get it right. The size, appearance, performance...everything adds-up. Seems to me I could smoke some chicken for several hours and perhaps finish it off on a high-temp grill for some sear lines and then move to a low-temp section of the grill to finish it with basted layers of rich BBQ sauce. So this is my smoker. Even though the Klose or Pitt's unit looks great,
I don't see why I'd need both a vertical smoker and a horizontal smoker with offset firebox...seems to me I have the capacity and everything with the BBQ Vault, please advise if I'm missing anything.
Next component, instead of a large horizontal chamber with an offset firebox, I'd instead opt for a huge grill...and why not go with a gasser? I might be able to get funky with a wood-chip tray to get some smoke action going...but for the most part I'm looking for that large (or HUGE) grill that can do the burgers, dogs, corn and even chicken. Don't laugh but I'm back to another Crown Verity
So there you go.....I've got the smoking cover with an awesome stunning beautiful impressive Pitts BBQ Vault that should be able to churn-out smoked meats after doing some learning...and then next to it a massive 72" grill for the corn, burgers, etc.
I don't need a deep fryer, I don't want a large wok, I don't think I need any other cooking accessories/appliances beyond the smoker and grill. Okay, maybe a stove top for a pot or two...but this would all fall into the area where I'll put a sink, small microwave or other stuff. Focusing on the BBQ needs I think we got this figured out....but, is there ANY reason I might want to get a horizontal smoker in addition to the BBQ Vault??? I don't see it....I think the Vault has me covered.
I think the guys over at Pitmaker.com have some stuff you may dig. Their vertical vault smokers are definitely among the most eye catching with their insulated walls that they can paint in any color with automotive paint and graphics. Your ranch logo would look great on one. They are charcoal cookers and can be ordered with a bbq guru digital draft control unit. This gives you a quality cooker that you can get cooking on quickly, and if you want to really teach yourself fire management you can just disconnect the guru controller. The capacity is pretty decent as well.
And this is exactly what sold me on the BBQ Vault, I think you're bang-on correct!! :biggrin1:
Or, you could go for their really loaded configurations that have a vault smoker, the grill, and an offset horizontal sniper smoker.
If I have a Vault...why would I want/need a sniper smoker?? Either way I'll give them a call
I know you mentioned not wanting a trailer, but the trailers they make are very badass, with all the custom options and colors.
A trailer? I dunno, it says "temporary" or even rented. I realize it means I could take the whole unit places (like if I got into competitions) but there's just something about a permanent install that speaks to me. It's almost like comparing a dough-boy above ground pool to a custom in-ground pool. I don't want people to think I rented the thing or worry about someone perhaps stealing it...I want something in brick and looking like it's an integral part of the ranch.
Here is a video of one of their rigs with that vault/grill configuration:
Ultimate BBQ Showdown Trailer! - YouTube
Yeah, I think you really nailed it on the head with this call Joe!! Just looking at that unit gives me goosebumps and something else the wife will have to help me with later.
Hmmm....interesting, but we're talking about charcoal again. Keep plenty in stock, wait for it to get hot, hope you cook everything before the heat runs out....definitely working with an operable window of cooking time...and then a lot of dust to clean up. I hate to wuss-out but given the awesome smoker on hand, I think I can roll with the propane for the grill...just too easy. Please let me know if my logic is bad. :loco:
I'd carefully peruse the pitmaker site as they have options for grilling and smoking, both vertical and horizontal, and their stuff is definitely the most eye catching in bbq fabrication.
Calling them tomorrow! :biggrin1: I'll be sure to tell them I'm interested in their Vault but would also like a large (5-foot plus) grill next to the vault...see what they offer. I bet they can build anything!
You could also call the guys at yoder smokers. They are another quality shop that does a lot of custom stuff. On their site or facebook page I saw where they even did a propane pit.
Joe, I think it's safe to say that I've safely divorced myself from the notion of having to have an all-in-one unit; I don't need the vault to have a grill attached. May as well get the best Vault with the best grill...the Pitts Vault is awesome and that 72" Crown-V also looks stunning. Don't roll your eyes too hard but I just may have a local shop fabricate a 7-foot axle and wheel to run over the 72" grill...it'll do nothing but look cool but tell me those stupid little 'wings' on the back of cars really serve a purpose beyond looking cool.
But yeah, since I'm open to individual units I'm willing to look at any vertical smoker and any grill....and combination units as well.
We're narrowing it down buddy! Can't thank you enough....any other suggestions, thoughts, commentary is VERY welcome! I'll start making calls and see what's out there. I'm sure there's some other options and revisions to the plan...but that BBQ Vault seems amazing, especially with the Guru option!
- Steve
