Help me select a Q

[Fillmore Farmer]

Good F'in grief Charlie Brown, yet ANOTHER thread on helping someone figure out which BBQ to buy. :tsk:

New to the forum, found it while doing searching for custom grills, no surprise there.

My name is Steve, I love BBQ'ing, live in the L.A. area and about a year ago bought a 10-acre ranch out near Fillmore. We just planted 850 avocado trees, have 250 of the original valencia orange trees, remodeled the house (built in 1890's) and just finished building a 3,300 sq/ft 2-story wood barn. Guys, there's no BBQ on this ranch...that's like a stripper bar without alcohol, dollar bills and women! :shock:

I well imagine you need a bit of info about what I'm trying to do in order to help me figure out which way to go...and I'm married with 3 daughters all entering adolesence so telling me to go to hell is a been-there/doing-that experience! :becky:

I don't do compeitions, I'm a hack Q'er. I currently have a 48" DCS gas grill, I do chicken, beef ribs, hamburgers and occassionally some salmon. We also like to throw fresh corn on the grill and a few other meats.

Now this is important: I modified the grill by using a piano-hinge across the entire back/top and put a flap across it so I can essentially seal the lid and better smoke the meat. I just put wood chips in the little box with it's own burner and place a large tray of ice above it...this way I can expose meat to about an hour of smoke with relatively little heat. My point is, I do try to incorporate smoking into the process.

Now, that said...I'm of the impression that a man is judged by the size of his BBQ and so I'm looking to go big, this is a ranch and I'm clearly looking to sport a Q that will impress visitors. I'm budgeting between $4k to $7k and the unit is stationary and likely to be mounted into a brick enclosure...no trailer, no cart, no wheels please! Admittedly, I'm also looking for something that looks the part, I keep visualizing the Santa Maria style that has the axle running across the stop and large wheels on each end.

My search has brought me to a tried & true name: Klose and I've already spoken to the guy. Dave told me about recently getting his boat captain license, about a motorcycle-style BBQ that was sold back to him so it could live on in eternity and I accidently stumbled onto the topic of hand guns...over the course of his dissertation, some 45+ minutes, and after he reminded me repeatedly that he's built hundreds of thousands of grills...he may have discussed his grill for a few minutes. Great guy but he either drank too much or not enough...LOL, but I'm leaning in his direction...the man and his work is legendary.

Here's the grill I'm looking at:
I hope that pic came out, it's his 24"x72" dual hooded deluxe grill which has adjustable meat racks that raise/lower in 16 positions. I can also have an optional firebox attached and I'm figuring this can smoke my meats. I love the look of this unit.

I then stumbled upon a unit made by Arizona BBQ Grills, a relatively obscure manufacturer. I'm already concerned about his 3/16" construction but it's the design that has me fascinated...on the side is a large box which is used to smoke meats, and it got me wondering what this is all about. I'm guessing meat is placed in there and left to slow-cook and smoke for hours...and then finsihed on the grill??? Here's (hopefully) a pic:

The guy said he could extend the grill to 5-6-7 feet as an option, so this gives me the above axle/wheel, a large grill and a big smoking box. Also, I'm sure Klose has some backyard smokers of similar like but I didn't see any with the overhead axle/wheels...but he can do anything custom.

Oh, as far as fuel...I've never really done charcoal. At home I do natural gas but the ranch only has propane and I'd like that to be a good standby. I'd also like to burn wood as an option and for flavor.

I mean, I'm just guessing what I want. I'll still have a 36"-48" standard BBQ for family and cooking for a few guest....but for big parties and possibly events, I'm turning to this big gun for culinary support. I subscribe to the notions that "you get what you pay for" and "buy it once, buy it right"....and to be forthright about it, I just blew upwards of $220k on this barn so whatever it takes to get a killer Q for the ranch, I'm in....but let's try to keep it under $10k

Did I mention my neighbor keeps 170 head of cattle directly next door? :grin: :becky:

Thanks for your help and advice, the fate of my BBQ is in your hands! (No pressure though)

 

[SmittyJonz]

I'd get a Large Santa Maria Style Grill AND a Large Insulated Cabinet Smoker like a Humphreys Down East Beast or their Cubed Beast or their Monster - B.A.S -Big Azz Smoker, but that's just me Dreaming........:shock:

http://www.humphreysbbq.squarespace.com/smokers/the-big-ass-smoker-bas

http://www.norcalovenworks.com/Extreme-Duty-Grills-s/83.htm#.UxKpo8uYYdU

or a PitMaker BBQ Vault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5WAJAzJG5Q

 

[Diesel Dave]

I know shipping may be a bit much, but check out ShirleyFabrication.com Paul is a member here and he and Ty could build you a custom high quality pit to your specifications.

Welcome and good luck! :thumb:

 

[biker.chef]

You live in LA and got 170 head of cattle next door?

Is that like this?

Or like this?

 

[bwram1]

Did I mention my neighbor keeps 170 head of cattle directly next door? :grin: :becky:

What is the penalty for rustling in this century? All that "on the hoof" brisket right next door... :twisted:

 

[Bludawg]

What is the penalty for rustling in this century? All that "on the hoof" brisket right next door... :twisted:

In Tx if the sherrif catches you it's 20 years with Big Bubba the 300 lb Love Machine as a roomy. If I catch you I'll toss a 20 ' catch rope over a post oak limb and you get to fertilize the pasture.



OP check this out http://bbquepits.com/portable_bbq_grills.htm

 

[bbqgeekess]

Welcome Steve to the forum! Thanks for the introduction. I remember seeing lots of fruit trees driving on 126 from Santa Paula to Interstate 5.

I don't know anything about big cookers, but as you know you've come to the right place! People are very nice and helpful here.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

Here's another Klose version that has the vertical smoker box but lacks the adjustable meat rack (axle/wheel), I'm asking him if he can custom make one.

I'm not certain I understand the vertical smoker. For instance, with chicken you'd marinate overnight and then slowly cook it on the grill. How would things work with the vertical smoker? I'm guessing it spends hours in the vertical smoker and then is finished-off on the grill?

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

You live in LA and got 170 head of cattle next door?

LOL, I should have been more specific but didn't want to get epic-long with the post. I actually live in L.A. (San Fernando Valley)...but my ranch is about 40 minutes North in Ventura County in the agricultural belt of Fillmore. The plots are 10-20-40 acre parcels. The guy next door has cattle and on the weekends ranchero's are over there practicing "roping"; bunch of guys drinking beer, large belt buckles, cowboy hats, lasso's and if your truck ain't raised at least a foot off the ground something's not right.

I know shipping may be a bit much, but check out ShirleyFabrication.com Paul is a member here and he and Ty could build you a custom high quality pit to your specifications.

Sweet, thanks!!

http://www.humphreysbbq.squarespace.com/smokers/the-big-ass-smoker-bas

http://www.norcalovenworks.com/Extreme-Duty-Grills-s/83.htm#.UxKpo8uYYdU

or a PitMaker BBQ Vault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5WAJAzJG5Q

Thanks for the leads, I'll check 'em out!

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Sounds to me like you need both a grill for hot and fast cooking for things like burgers, steaks etc, and a smoker for the low-n-slow stuff. For that kind of budget, these are what I would get. I am actually hoping to add one of these myself next year and then the other the year after.

For hot and fast, a santa maria like you said from these guys,
http://www.grillery.com/khxc/index....g+Grills&sid=qqfs9164uwv73e88x68jea37kf1ytr15
I absolutely love the stuff these guys are making and need to have one myself.

And a real deal offset stick burner from yoder,
www.yodersmokers.com

Now, you mentioned not wanting anything trailer mounted. And everyone likes what they like, but if I had a ranch, I'd like the idea of a trailer mounted smoker. Say I wanted to keep it by the house for regular week night cooking, and maybe I have dinner parties out by the barn or in the orchard and want to have it over there. That yoder Frontiersman in the competition section of the site would be mighty nice with some custom branding for my ranch. Just a thought.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

TG-Joe,

I think you're right, I'm looking for something that does both: slow smoke meat for hours and then finish it off on the grill....or maybe just fire up the grill for some burgers. Versatility for sure.

The last unit I posted has that....large grill and vertical smoker. I hear ya about having it on a trailer but there's just something nice about having a large built-in unit, we'll be put behind the house and have about 4-6 picnic tables and benches all set up.

 

[LongTong]

BBQ Comp in Fillmore

Check out the KCBS BBQ Comp this June In Fillmore. It will be in conjunction with the Honey Harvest Festival. You'll be able to see many different types of cookers and I'm sure the Pitmasters would love to talk to you after 1:30 PM Saturday when they've finished turning in their entries.

http://www.cbbqa.org/wiki/index.php?title=2nd_Annual_California_Honey_Festival_and_BBQ_Championship

 

[TailGateJoecom]

TG-Joe,

I think you're right, I'm looking for something that does both: slow smoke meat for hours and then finish it off on the grill....or maybe just fire up the grill for some burgers. Versatility for sure.

The last unit I posted has that....large grill and vertical smoker. I hear ya about having it on a trailer but there's just something nice about having a large built-in unit, we'll be put behind the house and have about 4-6 picnic tables and benches all set up.

I'd rather have 2 more specialized units than just the one. With smoking, once you get into that and start a long smoke, you are kind of committed to that for a few hours. I frequently have stuff going in both my fec120 smoker and one of my crown verity grills. Of course, everyone's needs are different. With the budget you have, I'd be looking at all the marquee names and having fun deciding.

 

[muidaq]

You've mentioned low and slow then finishing on the grill a couple times. That's not often done with your traditional smoked meats (brisket, pork shoulder) but is a good technique for steaks to easily get to the desired temp with less chance of overshooting.

 

[smoke ninja]

In Tx if the sherrif catches you it's 20 years with Big Bubba the 300 lb Love Machine as a roomy. If I catch you I'll toss a 20 ' catch rope over a post oak limb and you get to fertilize the pasture.



OP check this out http://bbquepits.com/portable_bbq_grills.htm

If i remember right Texas law states a property owner is allowed to use deadly force to stop a night time robbery. I read a story last year where a man shot a hooker who took his money but didn't perform. He shot her dead and walk on the charges.

Don't mess with Texas.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

Check out the KCBS BBQ Comp this June In Fillmore. It will be in conjunction with the Honey Harvest Festival. You'll be able to see many different types of cookers and I'm sure the Pitmasters would love to talk to you after 1:30 PM Saturday when they've finished turning in their entries.

http://www.cbbqa.org/wiki/index.php?title=2nd_Annual_California_Honey_Festival_and_BBQ_Championship

Whoa, GREAT find....THANK YOU!!!!

Ironically, I'm not sure I can stand to hold-off until June to buy a unit.

With the budget you have, I'd be looking at all the marquee names and having fun deciding.

I've spoken with a few guys and everyone is telling me slightly different things. I'm also learning a lot. The "fun" of finding the right unit is there....but a lot of frustration comes with it.

Turns out I've not been BBQ'ing all this time. When I fire-up my 48" DCS I'm evidently just cooking on a BBQ. I was told that true BBQ is done using either charcoal or (almost preferably) wood. So I'm thinking about having gas burners added to the grill of the unit I want to buy but the guy said they'd only do it over half the grill and it'll cause the grill to lose heat and smoke on account of the ventilation required for the burners...so he recommends no gas at all, just charcoal and/or wood.

I dunno, my head is spinning and some of these guys are very difficult to talk to; they don't listen, they tangent on all sorts of stuff (dogs, guns, trucks, ex wives, beer, boats) and they'll explain it poorly and then re-explain it differently...and then the next guy tells me different.

I'm about ready to go vegetarian!

....kidding

 

[LI Pig Congress]

Having a fancy grill is great but, it not about the grill. I know of a few teams / people who turn out amazing food with grills $200 and under. That being said, I just got a pitmaker safe and couldn't be happier. I am personally a fan of vertical insulated smokers. They require the least amount of attention, low Fule consumption, small foot print and large capacity.

 

[TailGateJoecom]

Whoa, GREAT find....THANK YOU!!!!

Ironically, I'm not sure I can stand to hold-off until June to buy a unit.




I've spoken with a few guys and everyone is telling me slightly different things. I'm also learning a lot. The "fun" of finding the right unit is there....but a lot of frustration comes with it.

Turns out I've not been BBQ'ing all this time. When I fire-up my 48" DCS I'm evidently just cooking on a BBQ. I was told that true BBQ is done using either charcoal or (almost preferably) wood. So I'm thinking about having gas burners added to the grill of the unit I want to buy but the guy said they'd only do it over half the grill and it'll cause the grill to lose heat and smoke on account of the ventilation required for the burners...so he recommends no gas at all, just charcoal and/or wood.

I dunno, my head is spinning and some of these guys are very difficult to talk to; they don't listen, they tangent on all sorts of stuff (dogs, guns, trucks, ex wives, beer, boats) and they'll explain it poorly and then re-explain it differently...and then the next guy tells me different.

I'm about ready to go vegetarian!

....kidding

Lol, I am from NYC, so I am not a born-n-bred southerner raised on low and slow bbq, so I understand where you are coming from as a beginner.

Basically, some food cooks (relatively) fast, using high heat. This is GRILLING. You either cook the food right over the heat source, or in an indirect area off to the side of the heat source, depending on what you are cooking, but you are not slow cooking or smoking it. Think burgers, dogs, grilled chicken breast, veggies, pizza, and steaks. You are living in the 400-800 degree cooking zone here.

Then there is BBQ, what this board is mostly about, where you cook the given meat at a lower temp for an extended period of time. This is for two reasons. FIRST, BBQ cuts like brisket and pork shoulder are poor cuts of meat full of collagen, connective tissue. They are tough and if cooked like a pork tenderloin or ribeye steak they will be too tough and chewy to eat.Where you would cook a ribeye steak to medium rare at about 130-135 degrees internal temp, a pork butt or brisket needs to get to around 200 degrees internal temp, well past well done, for the magic to happen.Tha magic is allowing the collagen to melt and render, basting the inside of the meat and forming a moist gelatin that coats the meat fibers, giving the texture and mouth feel of tenderness. SECOND, cooking low and slow also allows the cook to introduce wood smoke to flavor the meat.
You are living in the 200-300 degree cooking zone here. Where you are generally cooking over the flame in grilling, you are cooking away from the actual heat source in bbq, with the fire either in an offset firebox or with a water pan between the fire and food.

The smoke part leads to the great debate in BBQ, fuel sources!

That info above is all pretty much the way it is, no real debating there. When it comes to fuel sources, things get crazy as there are plenty of options and plenty of people with strong opinions, whether or not they have actually used the different types of sources on quality equipment. Here is the basic list.

1)Propane or LP, otherwise referred pejoratively as a gasser in BBQ circles. There is a debate about the type of heat propane puts off and its suitability to bbq. There are also people who swear "they can taste the gas." But in my opinion, if the greatest steakhouses in the world have no problem with a "gas taste," then why would I? Besides, does the food that comes out of your oven taste like gas too? More objectively, the problems with gas are 1) most backyard grills are too small and not really laid out or equipped to deal with cooking big meats low and slow and 2) there is always safety concerns with propane. Now, having said that, it can be done, and I have had good results on my big commercial grade Crown Verity grills using either wood chips or the amazen pellet tube smoke device for wood flavor. This is how I started, using the tools I had available to me at the time.

2) Wood fired or "stick burner." This is bbq at its traditional roots, cooking with just logs, no gas and no charcoal. Most stickburners are the horizontal offsets. Most people will say this is how you get the absolute best bbq. The tradeoff though is a lot of work. A stick burner needs constant attention and active management of the fire, adding wood every hour or so for up to 10-12 hours or however long the cook takes. It also means having access to and storing a good sized supply of wood. Also, this probably has the highest learning curve and while it can produce the best bbq, it can also ruin the cook if you don't know how to manage the fire and type of smoke needed. Too much billowey smoke and your food is ruined with creosote. Some high end and custom stickburners do have a gas assist for lighting your logs to begin the smoke session.

3) wood pellets, or "pellet pooper." Generally second on the disdain and contempt list after propane for some in bbq circles. Food grade 100% wood pellets are fed by a control unit into a firepot, where they burn providing both the heat source and smoke flavoring. No charcoal or gas is used. Generally, these are very easy to use as you can usually set the temp you want to cook at and the amount of time you want to cook for. The biggest knock on here is some say the smoke flavor is a little light. First of all, that is subjective as some people don't like a heavier smoke flavor. Second, that can be mitigated to one degree or another through cooking temps used and adding supplemental smoke through gadgets like the amazen tube. Also, the better quality high end pellet smokers do a better job with smoke flavor. Pellet smoking is my preferred cooker of choice and I have a Cookshack FEC120 which is at the high end. I find the cookshack allows me to cook more regularly day to day since I don't have to deal with building or maintaining a fire.

4) charcoal. This is where most of the brethren live, so no real negative name calling for these guys, lol. Two types of fuel here, charcoal briquettes and lump hardwood. There are all types of charcoal cookers, from the cheapest weber kettle grills and home made UDS (ugly drum smoker), up to the more custom high end like the pitmaker vault. When cooking with charcoal, you add wood chunks to the coals for smoke flavor. With coals, you don't need to use nearly as much wood as with a stick burner as you are not relying on the wood for a heat source, just flavoring. Ask anyone what kind of charcoal cooker to get and you will get a million suggestions, half of them being "build a UDS" regardless of the type of smoker you state you are interested in which may be nothing like what a uds is! I have a Weber Smokey Mountain, or WSM, and I really think that is the best bang for the buck entry level smoker that you can use forever. Once you learn the principles of fire management, a well made charcoal pit is easy to use. Not as easy as a pellet smoker, but much easier than a stick burner. Also, a large percentage of guys have electronic draft controllers. You hook up a small fan to the air intake. The fan has a controller, and stokes the fire as needed to keep a certain temp. Look at the BBQ Guru, probably the most widely used.

5) Electric smokers. Umm, yeah, even I am not going to consider this. If you are thinking electric just go play with your daughters easy bake oven, lol. j/k. Bradley is probably the better of the cheap stuff, and cookshack has some higher end electrics going all the way up to large scale restaurant grade stuff.

So there are the basic principles of low and slow bbq vs grilling, and the different types of smokers at the most basic. Once you know the difference between grilling and bbq, and the basic types of fuel sources out there, you can think about what works for you. The photos you posted where all offset stick burners, but maybe a stick burner and the time commitment and learning curve isn't what you want. That is what you have to think about. This site is a great resource, and the more you learn, the more questions you will have, which is why we are all here!

 

[Jayson]

I loved your post and welcome! The search is the fun part. Then you have to cook and wash dishes. You have a lot of options. Shipping is expensive on these large cookers, so you may want to see what is available in your area. Nothing wrong with used either. Good luck on the hunt and you came to the right place for advice. Most any cooker you come up with will do a good job when the nuances of the pit are learned.

Jsn

 

[Beentown]

Great post TailGateJoe!

I wouldn't call ours a ranch as we only have 177 acres and 32 head left but it is nice to give folks the feel of a ranch so I get where you are coming from. What I am starting this spring is to build an actual pit at that location. Really old school and see how I do with actual wood cooks.

If I had a $10k budget I would get separate but matching units. You should be able to get a large grill and a large smoker for that kind of money with just about any option you want. We are searching for a commercial unit and the one we have in mind has rotating racks and convection...under $9k (buddy is opening a carry out BBQ joint).

The suggestion of going to the comp too see what everyone is running and what you do/don't like is a GREAT idea. If you go the route of custom it will be after June until you get your unit anyway in most cases.