Brisket holding time

[bigdogphin]

would you ever use a low temp wsm as a holding cabinet. if so what temp would you need to keep it at to keep briskets from overcooking once done?

I think he means just add another cooker for your chix or ribs rather than buying or using a cambros.... If someone was worried about space to get all their meats cooked.....

 

[djqualls]

I like to cambro for around 4 hours before turn in time. THE KEY TO THIS..... after you pull it let it vent and stall the cooking process. i.e. if you pull at 205 pull it and let it drop to 195 then close the wrap and put back in the cambro. Just remember in KCBS, Bark is over rated so if it gets soft, consider it a gift when slicing in my opinion.

Good Luck.

 

[Cayman1]

It would be nice to know if there is an optimum holding time for briskets and butts. I like to get them done and resting just so things aren't quite so hectic at turn in.

 

[Kave Dweller]

Got two calls in last three comps on brisket, one rested for 5 hours, one rested for maybe 30 minutes (it was not cooperating). I am for 4 hours so I can use that smoker for chicken (time to get temp up), doesn't always work out as planned, but puzzled us that rest didn't seem to make a huge difference.

 

[Jason TQ]

What are folks theories on Venting vs Not Venting before it goes into the cambro? Are you basing it on time like if it come off 4hrs before turn in you vent "x" amount of time and if it cooks longer and comes 2hrs before turn in you vent less? Or do you vent to a specific temp?

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

There is no benefit to using a cambro in a BBQ comp, thats why I wonder why so many teams use them. I talk to teams that actually use it as part of their process thinking that it actually makes the meat better. Its not possible. When I go to a comp I always make a joke that every team must have a catering job and they are going to fill their cambro and send it on the road for delivery. If my pork is done at 7am or 11am it never touches a cambro, same as brisket. A pork butt will not cool down in the summer wrapped up in foil that was brought up to 205 or whatever temp you cook until. Not only that there are ways to get it hotter that would benefit your product rather than holding hot. Once again this is just my opinion, If you have to make a choice buy a cambro or a wsm or a cooker comparable in price, buy the cooker and start your big meats much later. You will be happier. Think of it like this, would you cook a steak and throw it in a cambro for a few hours? A cambro is holding not resting, resting involves temps going down not maintaining.

 

[gettinbasted]

There is no benefit to using a cambro in a BBQ comp, thats why I wonder why so many teams use them. I talk to teams that actually use it as part of their process thinking that it actually makes the meat better. Its not possible. When I go to a comp I always make a joke that every team must have a catering job and they are going to fill their cambro and send it on the road for delivery. If my pork is done at 7am or 11am it never touches a cambro, same as brisket. A pork butt will not cool down in the summer wrapped up in foil that was brought up to 205 or whatever temp you cook until. Not only that there are ways to get it hotter that would benefit your product rather than holding hot. Once again this is just my opinion, If you have to make a choice buy a cambro or a wsm or a cooker comparable in price, buy the cooker and start your big meats much later. You will be happier. Think of it like this, would you cook a steak and throw it in a cambro for a few hours? A cambro is holding not resting, resting involves temps going down not maintaining.

To each their own, but comparing a brisket to a steak doesn't make a lot of sense. The goal in cooking a brisket is to break down collagen and connective tissue. This breakdown process can be accomplished in its entirety on the smoker, or be finished in a cambro. The longer you can hold meat in this breakdown zone without over cooking it, the more moist your brisket will be. I agree that a cambro is not resting, but it can be more than just holding.

A steak is already a relatively tender product, but some chefs will sous vide a steak for the exact same reasons.

 

[Know Bull]

I like to cambro for around 4 hours before turn in time. THE KEY TO THIS..... after you pull it let it vent and stall the cooking process. i.e. if you pull at 205 pull it and let it drop to 195 then close the wrap and put back in the cambro. Just remember in KCBS, Bark is over rated so if it gets soft, consider it a gift when slicing in my opinion.

Good Luck.

I agree with David regarding the bark. I believe that the only people that are obsessed with bark are the people that are cooking. The people that are eating do not focus on bark, and will often believe that the meat is overcooked if there is too much crunchy bark. All you really need is just enough 'bark' that your seasoning is stuck to the meat. Now think about how many people were cooking and how many were eating at your last event - I think I will choose to appease the masses.

My opinion on holding time is to not set a goal on a specific amount of time to hold. I believe that you need a BARE MINIMUM of 30 minutes, just to let the meat achieve equilibrium and re-absorb (or redistribute) some of the juices. Any holding time beyond that is just a function of your specific situation on that cook. Big meats may have different cooking times even when the cuts are the same size. And there can be big variances, especially at contests where you have to deal with weather, power failures, falling asleep on your fire management, etc, etc. So your goal (at home or in a contest) is to: (a) have the meat ready to go at the appropriate time; and/or (b) free up space in your cooker for small meats. Longer holding periods do not necessarily have a negative impact on big meats - PROVIDED that you follow David's advice and stop the cooking process before putting the meat in your holding container. But an excessive hold period will hurt you on small meats. So you build your timing variances into the big meats, and micro-manage the small meats to be ready at the last possible moment. Just a juggling act - keeping all the balls in the air.

 

[Q-Dat]

What are folks theories on Venting vs Not Venting before it goes into the cambro? Are you basing it on time like if it come off 4hrs before turn in you vent "x" amount of time and if it cooks longer and comes 2hrs before turn in you vent less? Or do you vent to a specific temp?

I think it depends on how you determine doneness. If you cook more by internal temp, then I don't think its a good idea to vent. At 200* a brisket's connective tissue may or may not have broken down completely and probably will benefit from going straight into the cambro and continuing to cook very slowly for the next few hours. If you cool it before it goes into holding, the tissues may tighten back up again giving you an end product that's not as tender as it was when it came off the cooker.

If you cook by feel, and pull your brisket when it probes like "buttah" then the connective tissue has most likely broken down all the way. In this case if you don't let that internal temp come down to about 175 or so, then that probe tender brisket which is probably over 200* is going to take a LONG time to get down to holding temp, and as a result the neat fibers will begin to break down resulting in overcooked brisket that will be difficult if not impossible to slice

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

To each their own, but comparing a brisket to a steak doesn't make a lot of sense. The goal in cooking a brisket is to break down collagen and connective tissue. This breakdown process can be accomplished in its entirety on the smoker, or be finished in a cambro. The longer you can hold meat in this breakdown zone without over cooking it, the more moist your brisket will be. I agree that a cambro is not resting, but it can be more than just holding.

A steak is already a relatively tender product, but some chefs will sous vide a steak for the exact same reasons.

Sous Vide and holding in a cambro is totally two different ends of the spectrum. So you are telling me you pull your brisket off and put it into a cambro to continue breaking down collagen and connective tissue? Thats whats cooking it is for. If you are going to to tell me you are going to continue cooking in an uncontrolled atmosphere like a cambro to give you better results that is silly. I am a professionally trained chef with an education also in culinary arts and you can argue with me until you are blue in the face, there is no benefit of a cambro for any meat, anytime.

 

[gettinbasted]

Sous Vide and holding in a cambro is totally two different ends of the spectrum. So you are telling me you pull your brisket off and put it into a cambro to continue breaking down collagen and connective tissue? Thats whats cooking it is for. If you are going to to tell me you are going to continue cooking in an uncontrolled atmosphere like a cambro to give you better results that is silly. I am a professionally trained chef with an education also in culinary arts and you can argue with me until you are blue in the face, there is no benefit of a cambro for any meat, anytime.

Congrats on your pedigree, that is very impressive. And yes, that is what I am telling you. I cambro my big meats for a period of time because they are cooked to a temperature where the muscle fibers will start to squeeze out the juice if they go to a higher temperature, but more collagen and connective tissue will still break down.

Your way is very valid so keep on doing it. I just disagree that "there is no benefit of a cambro for any meat, anytime". There is certainly no benefit to a closed mind and a blanket statement against other cooker's techniques.

 

[gettinbasted]

Sous Vide and holding in a cambro is totally two different ends of the spectrum.

So are cooking a brisket and cooking a steak.

 

[INmitch]

Sous Vide and holding in a cambro is totally two different ends of the spectrum. So you are telling me you pull your brisket off and put it into a cambro to continue breaking down collagen and connective tissue? Thats whats cooking it is for. If you are going to to tell me you are going to continue cooking in an uncontrolled atmosphere like a cambro to give you better results that is silly. I am a professionally trained chef with an education also in culinary arts and you can argue with me until you are blue in the face, there is no benefit of a cambro for any meat, anytime.

So I take it that your putting your meat back on the heat before turnins. I'm just not getting your point. If your big meats are done 2-4 hours before turnins, your just leaving them set out wrapped on a table? That or there is more to your process than your letting us know. Which is confusing me and I'm sure some others not as seasoned as me.
It's got me thinking I should go throw away all my 1st place brisket trophies n 180 pins because I've been doing it wrong.

 

[INmitch]

I guess my point is apparently your doing far different than the norm. Which is fine. But there are quite a few people on here new to comps, and I think your steering them in the wrong direction.

Off my soapbox now.:icon_blush:

 

[roksmith]

For me, the biggest advantage to using a cambro for competitions is mostly about timing. Not completely, but mostly. Having a process that allows for every one of my meats to live in a cambro for some period of time allows me to have zero timing issues. I also happpen to believe that all of the meats.. not just the large meats benefit from some time in the warm box.

 

[Q-Dat]

Think the great thing about the Cambro is that there is no heat source inside it. They hold heat so well that you don't need one. You can accurately predict how long a cooked mass of meat is going to hold its temp.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

You can cook your brisket how ever you would like. Hot holding is fine if it works for you. My "pedigree" has nothing to do with this other than you talking like you have the entire science of a cambro figured out when in fact saying it makes a piece of meat more moist is completely an opinion not a fact. As far as all of your first place finishes and 180 pins congrats to you, if you feel a cambro is a necessity to cook a brisket thats your opinion. Mine is that it is completely not needed and there is no reason to teach or "steer" all the new people on here to believe a cambo is a need for a bbq comp because it is not. Keep camboing if it works for you, I will continue to not cambro because it works for me on pork and brisket. My original point was to purchase more cooking room, there are good cookers that are cheaper than a good cambro.

 

[Dex]

This thread became interesting. Never thought it would turn into this op2:

 

[Cayman1]

Got two calls in last three comps on brisket, one rested for 5 hours, one rested for maybe 30 minutes (it was not cooperating).

We have had exactly the same thing happen with the same result, calls for both. That's why I wonder if there is any benefit to resting more than 30 minutes other than timing.

We use a cooler, not a cambro and do so just to keep the meat above the danger zone prior to turn in. Don't really try to cook it more although I think that happens occasionally when we don't vent and cool quite enough before the cooler. Come to think of it, the last time that happened, I thought the brisket was overcooked but we got a call anyway, but heck, what do I know about it. I feel good if I don't drop it on the floor of the trailer. By that time of the day, I'm pretty wiped.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

Dex - to answer your question in my opinion, you can keep a brisket hot in a pan wrapped tight in foil for hours, you will also have the availability to reheat more towards turn in time if you need to. You can throw them in a cambro if it makes you feel comfortable about keeping it hot and breaking down more collagen. But coming from me and "my opinion" you dont need to.