KCBS TOY Standings

[Muzzlebrake]

wait you're saying you can't justify having paid(by us mind you)employees to do what "1 dude" did for free?

c'mon man!

btw, IMHO, paul is one of the haulmarks of modern comp bbq.

is there another BOD member who won't just speak for themself but for the board weigh in here?

or will YOU weigh in as a board member with what YOU think and will do???

stop hiding behind that disclaimer. we voted you in.

Brother, I don't know if you what kind of bear you just kicked. While IMHO Jorge is not nearly as fierce as his reputation, I can assure you he doesn't run from anything and hides from less.

If tracking this info is such an easy thing to do why isn't everyone doing it? Sounds like there are lots of IT guys out there, somebody step up and fill in the gap.

I work for an organization that struggles to get standard information from a group of less than 100 people who have been trained in what we need. I can only imagine the headaches involved with trying to compile accurate data from from as many as dozens of different sources that are being compiled be a mostly volunteer workforce that is completely decentralized from the parent organization

 

[quarters69]

I guess im a little confused. the kcbs has the top 25 listed for every category and overall. how do they keep track of it? dont they have all the info already.

 

[djqualls]

Brother, I don't know if you what kind of bear you just kicked. While IMHO Jorge is not nearly as fierce as his reputation, I can assure you he doesn't run from anything and hides from less.

I just looked at the KCBS Website and don't see a Board member named Jorge. Is he a member of the KCBS Board?

 

[boogiesnap]

Speaking solely for myself...everybody knows the rest at this point

No offense taken, and the clarification is appreciated.:mrgreen:

I'm not saying that we shouldn't do it, nor am I saying that we won't do it. I'm saying that right now we are not in a position to do it efficiently or economically with the resources that are currently available.

If we task staff with the project, it will be at the expense of existing duties. There are only so many hours in the work day. Published errors will lead to calls and emails to the office for corrections. Absolutely understandable, but another drain on office resources.

My point is that we have a more efficient option available to use when we have some things in place, and it will yield more accurate results. Accuracy is important, and arguably more important to KCBS than other third parties that have published results in the past. That's not criticism. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for what Paul accomplished and shared, especially after talking to him about the process. KCBS has a duty, and obligation to provide the most accurate results possible because it is OUR ToY.

I also agree with you that it should be a benefit to membership and it is one that we want to provide, and I believe that we will when we can do it properly. Like many members, I wish we had that in place yesterday. That's not where we are right now, but we are working on it.

Thank you again, for taking the time to make it clear that you weren't addressing me individually. I recognized when I chose to run for the board that there would be times when there would be questions. That comes with the territory.

directly @ jorge...now THATS a good response to the issue. i knew you personally had it. i don't think you need the disclaimer on that one though, it is certainly quality representation of the members by a BOD for sure. thank you.

i apologize to you personally for trying to illicit that type of answer the way i did. i knew you could handle it, but neglected to consider it may be inappropriate; who the fark am i to address you that way? sorry, again.

steve, wouldn't be the first time i was an ass. :biggrin1: was that post the first time you were? :twisted:

i'll personally donate to a charity of your choice winnings from my first call in a category this year if i see that motion in next months bullsheet. that would be just too funny!

:yield:

 

[boogiesnap]

I just looked at the KCBS Website and don't see a Board member named Jorge. Is he a member of the KCBS Board?

yes.

 

[Jorge]

directly @ jorge...now THATS a good response to the issue. i knew you personally had it. i don't think you need the disclaimer on that one though, it is certainly quality representation of the members by a BOD for sure. thank you.

i apologize to you personally for trying to illicit that type of answer the way i did. i knew you could handle it, but neglected to consider it may be inappropriate; who the fark am i to address you that way? sorry, again.

steve, wouldn't be the first time i was an ass. :biggrin1: was that post the first time you were? :twisted:

i'll personally donate to a charity of your choice winnings from my first call in a category this year if i see that motion in next months bullsheet. that would be just too funny!

:yield:

Apology accepted, and appreciated.

I appreciate the interest and passion shown within this thread. It demonstrates that members do care about what is happening within KCBS, and that IS healthy for the organization.

I can tell you that the number of emails I've received at (gmullins at kcbs dot us) is one and that was directly related to this thread. If work, family, and KCBS obligations consume a couple of consecutive days I may have missed this thread. If you are a member and have concerns or questions, shoot me some email. I may not get back to right away, but it does go to my phone and every computer I use...and gets checked frequently. I'm not suggesting that you abandon discussion here, but if the issue is that important to many of you I'd have expected to have been contacted directly.

The reason for the disclaimer is simple, and I do apologize to those that find it irritating or believe that I'm tap dancing around issues. The fact is that I'm on member of a board of directors. About the only authority I have is serve as the chair of a couple of committees and the ability to make motions, and cast votes once a month. I AM NOT authorized to represent or speak for KCBS, nor should I be. Assume the BoD agrees on virtually nothing and every member is running around sharing their view of what should be done and campaigning in public. That's pretty close to anarchy. As far as I'm willing to go is sharing pertinent facts, and my opinion or understanding of an issue. I believe that I'm acting responsibly, and NOT overstepping reasonable boundaries.

To be as forthcoming as possible, I'll also tell you that there will be times where I won't touch an issue. The fact is that I have a business to run, a family to take care of, all while trying to preserve some measure of a life. If it's an issue that I know will not be resolved, and the information I have to offer is already available and will make no difference my time is better spent focusing on work, family, or issues that can make a difference to KCBS and membership. Sometimes it's a judgement call, and I can't promise that I'll always make the right one.

My email is included in this post, and I'd encourage anyone that thinks they may need it in the future to hold on to it or visit kcbs.us where it can be found. I do appreciate the interest, and passion for BBQ.

EDIT: If Steve makes the motion, it won't die for lack of a second:razz::mrgreen:

 

[dmprantz]

If tracking this info is such an easy thing to do why isn't everyone doing it? Sounds like there are lots of IT guys out there, somebody step up and fill in the gap.

I'll tell you right now, point blank and 100%, tracking what is being asked really is "such an easy thing to do...." as long as the right information system(s) are in place to support it. An issue up until now has been that the KCBS hasn't had those systems. That's what I think Jorge has been trying to say. Will it show up in the future? Time will tell.

I personally appealed to the KCBS BOD to listen to IT professionals when it comes to IT matters. They appeared to dismiss me without a second thought, and then their response (news to me as of this thread) was to fire the IT profressionals who worked for them and replace them with a marketing company with a proven track racord of IT failures. You wanna argue, try registering for Sam's Club 2012.

Something is missing.....

dmp

 

[quarters69]

I guess im a little confused. the kcbs has the top 25 listed for every category and overall. how do they keep track of it? dont they have all the info already.

Ok, I'm really confused now. I was looking on the kcbs points page from previous years. They have all the numbers right there. What teams finished where in all categories. So kcbs has all this info during the year, right?? Please explain. Seems like this should be on they site after event.

 

[djqualls]

I would be happy to see a top 200. Even if the information is some what accurate, The KCBS can add a disclaimer that the standings are un-audited. until the end of the season.

I can be reasonably confident that the top 10-20 teams know if their information is accurate and track it themselves.

Teams like me who want to be contenders in the sport, even though we don't have a chance at being top 20 would like to know where we are in the pack. The Top 200 raw results would be encouraging to know.

I also believe that if you are going to be tracked, you must be an active KCBS Member.

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the BOD comments about resources and workload. If member servcies aren't the first priority of the organization then what is?

I say this as a 6th term Chairman of an association that represents an industry that has a $5 Billion dollar impact on my states economy. As well as being a former Mayor, School Board Member and current Board Member of a Rual Water Authority.

My Handle is My Name (David J Qualls). My City is Where I Live. I'm in the Phonebook.

 

[Candy Sue]

There's now 1/4 of the board following this thread. Jorge is George Mullins. YankeeBBQ is Steve Farrin. I've not been creative enough to come up with a snappy name so I use my own.

The idea to make the entire ToY list a member benefit is a good one, IMO. KCBS needs to have incentives for cooks to join. More cooks join, more cooks vote. More cook votes means more changes that are cook-directed.

You've really got to understand the inertia that is the KCBS board. Making changes is sort of like spooning out cold molasses. It ain't happening fast.

Candy Sue -- with usual disclaimer stuff -- I'm an opinionated person and this one is mine all mine!

 

[Candy Sue]

I would be happy to see a top 200. Even if the information is some what accurate, The KCBS can add a disclaimer that the standings are un-audited. until the end of the season.

I can be reasonably confident that the top 10-20 teams know if their information is accurate and track it themselves.

Teams like me who want to be contenders in the sport, even though we don't have a chance at being top 20 would like to know where we are in the pack. The Top 200 raw results would be encouraging to know.

I also believe that if you are going to be tracked, you must be an active KCBS Member.

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the BOD comments about resources and workload. If member servcies aren't the first priority of the organization then what is?

I say this as a 6th term Chairman of an association that represents an industry that has a $5 Billion dollar impact on my states economy. As well as being a former Mayor, School Board Member and current Board Member of a Rual Water Authority.

My Handle is My Name (David J Qualls). My City is Where I Live. I'm in the Phonebook.

David,

With your experience, I'm sure you are aware that it takes people to get work done. When the people you have are already working to the max to get current work load done, how do you justify adding more work to the pile? If this is truly something that can be added simply as a membber resource without major staff efforts, I believe it's a worthy endeavor.

There are a number of great ideas in the works for KCBS and its web page. Guarantee that this ToY idea will make it to the agenda and get a vote of the board.

Regards,

Candy

PS -- hate that Tecumseh cancelled. It was a pleasure to be your neighbor.

 

[Jorge]

I would be happy to see a top 200. Even if the information is some what accurate, The KCBS can add a disclaimer that the standings are un-audited. until the end of the season.

I can be reasonably confident that the top 10-20 teams know if their information is accurate and track it themselves.

Teams like me who want to be contenders in the sport, even though we don't have a chance at being top 20 would like to know where we are in the pack. The Top 200 raw results would be encouraging to know.

I also believe that if you are going to be tracked, you must be an active KCBS Member.

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the BOD comments about resources and workload. If member servcies aren't the first priority of the organization then what is?

I say this as a 6th term Chairman of an association that represents an industry that has a $5 Billion dollar impact on my states economy. As well as being a former Mayor, School Board Member and current Board Member of a Rual Water Authority.

My Handle is My Name (David J Qualls). My City is Where I Live. I'm in the Phonebook.

Mr. Qualls, I used several online phone books and found no listing in Tecumseh. If you'd like to email me at gmullins at kcbs dot us I'd be more than happy to provide my cell # or give you a call on a number you'd be willing to provide.

 

[musicmanryann]

This is an interesting discussion. While not necessarily commenting on behalf of the entire BOD, I appreciate the board members that are on this forum and in this thread, providing a great amount more honesty and transparency than I have seen previously during the past four years as a KCBS member. Perhaps that molasses is starting to warm up a bit. :wink:

 

[djqualls]

Scratch delete.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

When the people you have are already working to the max to get current work load done, how do you justify adding more work to the pile?

I find this argument a little specious when you have a financially secure organization and a membership that has expressed a desire to get involved and help on numerous occasions. Hire more people. Every contract for services doesn't have to go to MMA.

 

[dmprantz]

I write this knowing that it's not going to be the most popular opinion, but I'm used to not being populare around here, so....

There have been several comments about how team tracking should be a KCBS member bennefit. The way some have worded it, I take issue with that concept and would like to explain why:

Every time I compete in a KCBS competition, I pay money to the KCBS for the priviledge, both directly and indirectly. My team pays $12 to the KCBS to be in the competition, and we have to pay our share of the sanctioning fee, which could be anywhere between $7 and $20 per team. There's also the rep expenses which have to be paid, the KCBS required insurance policy, and who knows what other fees. When you add it all up, this money exceeds what my team pays for our chicken entry in each competition and rivals our beverage expenses. It's not peanuts. I would expect that my $20+ gets me something when I pay it at every competition.

That money used to go toward some form of prize payment guarentee, but that has proven to be useless, to the point where the KCBS no longer publishes prize pools. It used to go toward a form state championship tracking and team tracking so that the process of qualifying for some invitationals was streamlined. That too has gone away, increasing the burden on teams and organizers, and KCBS has taken away the publishing functionality of state championships.

It appears that about all the money gets now is a rules framework, a judging system, and entry into the scoring software. Since the tracking of teams is a based on output of the scoring software, I would think that the money I already pay to the organization would cover that, and that they would not be pocketing money I already paid with one hand while asking for money with the other, all the while reducing the services that they provide.

Please don't misunderstand me: I believe that the KCBS should strive to provide bennefits to members that would entice cooks to keep and maintain memberships in the organization. I just don't think that inclusion in competition related features should be one of those features when you already charge teams money to be in those competitions. I know some people say that if you compete you should support the organization, and others are life-time members who feel that their membership should get them something. All valid points, but every competing team already financially supports the organization every time that an entry fee is paid. Let's please not forget that. Let's try to make that money pay for something please.

dmp

 

[Smoke Ring]

David,

With your experience, I'm sure you are aware that it takes people to get work done. When the people you have are already working to the max to get current work load done, how do you justify adding more work to the pile?

Really? If they are so overworked how does throwing out the software they use to manage everything help that? Are they more efficient now? Is their job easier?

 

[sitnfat]

Daniel that 20+ dollars gets us 5 pieces of paper at the end of awards

 

[deez butts]

I just thought I'd add my two cents for what it's worth.

Why not have KCBS issue each team a unique UID? You would continue to have individual member numbers for judging, member benefits and the like but each team would have a team ID and when registering for a comp you use the team ID. New teams that do not have a team ID could either request one or be assigned one when signing up for a comp.

The scores are tallied and uploaded to the KCBS database at the comp already, so if you did this under the team’s UID there would be no mistake
in team name. If it’s misspelled when entered at the comp it wouldn’t matter because you would be using the name associated with the team’s UID.

The results should be sandboxed before being posted on the website or added to any TOY calculations. (We’ve all seen results posted on KCBS before awards) This way after awards the KCBS rep or whomever can do a quick check of the comp results and TOY points for the comp, just to be safe.
Then after this check, release the results, posting the comp results and TOY points.

You would have the points and placings listed under the comp posting but the points and placing along with the comp name and etc would then be listed under that team UID and all the calculations can be done and listings of TOY points can be updated.

You could probably ask a university or university professor, especially since you are a non-profit, to have some students in Comp Sci or whatever to implement this as a project for credit. Like a capstone project or something.

Just a few quick thoughts on this.

 

[QueNivorous]

I know there is a new scoring software in the works or at least being discussed. Possibly, what we are looking for falls out from that.

I think for now the teams just need to be aware that they should keep track of their points if they are in highly ranked positions in the standings to confirm the numbers. For now it's a bit of a partnership with KCBS as far as keeping the standings goes.

Jorge (George) has indicated the resources are not in place presently to post complete TOY standings but also indicated it's something that should be considered. Candy seems to echo that. So, we've been told the BOD is aware and will consider the TOY standings issue we've addressed. So as far as I'm concerned we take that at face value. I'm very happy to see that we have BOD members looking at these posts. As someone else said, maybe the molasses is starting to flow!