Taste? Texture? Taste? Texture?

[G$]

I think that taste and tenderness are so intertwined that they should be one score:boxing:

Me too.

 

[Q-Dat]

Ya don't need Blues hog to win a contest ! :thumb:

And even if you do, and win alot, you can never get into selling your rub or sauce because you will be using someone else's stuff.

 

[Pitmaster T]

This could be a regional problem that has no real answer. I thought about this some more.

"Who cares if you nailed texture if the rib tastes like lighter fluid?"

Respectfully, this makes a great point but not really applicable the way its worded.

Let me illustrate by reversing the entire sentence above so that it logically makes the same argument that texture and tenderness is premiere.

Who cares if the ribs taste great if you pop them in your mouth and they are actually make of latex and silicone with stainless steel bolts that pop out and pierce both cheeks. I mean if you place a nice saucy salty rib in your mouth you don't expect to get your cheeks pierced? Monty Python Mod.

That was a little funny joke there.


In areas where the regional litmus test for decades (before our new century) was "zest" then I would agree. These areas I used to live in and even when I left New England and I would say I did BBQ people would always want to comment about their sauce or mine. Which from a Texan standpoint is kinda a weird thing to have a conversation about. As far as 2007 I distinctly remember conversations where people would talk about how they make great bbq in the oven.

Now I am going to be REAL careful to be SURE to indicate this is not how I feel about our CHAMPION brethren from the North. Especially not Icue who has championed at the Jack. Its a commentary on the region's tasters - the New Englander BEFORE 2000, who sought to judge came from a different stock than someone from the south.

Don't agree? How many conversations you have heard when speaking with a Northerner about BBQ have some indication of a southern exposure as a hint of credibility? I never will forget Clint and I got into it once about him defending northern bbq and he defended his skill brilliantly by mentioning he was FROM Texas and I think he lived in Memphis a while. I may be wrong.

NOW THE BRETHREN WEBSITE SINCE 2004 HAS HELPED LEVEL THAT PLAYING FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!

But in areas where salt and pepper and maybe two or three other ingredients were used but championships were won or lost on the smoke, the ring, the texture, bark then the role of taste is different.

Perhaps I should realign. Making an argument that you are not going to win if you don't master one or the other does not mean that mastering BOTH are not necessary to win (in most cases). Icue for instance, I bet never won one contest (including the jack I think) without putting the hammer down in BOTH segments.

More thought could be - and I have seen this happen - and perhaps this may uphold Icue's point, that since JUDGING often is by the cubic inch.... some guys whacked out rub - albeit on a tougher piece (and in the north at times slathered with sauce) might actually awake the Judge's palette enough to do better than a superior counterpart (one that would probably please the judge if he were in fact to eat maybe a 1/4 of each). But alas that does not happen.

The question I think Phil posed was not intended for extremes like really bad taste or really bad texture. But since the elements of texture intertwine with taste... and taste can be "purchased and sprinkled" on.... well then.... I say texture and tenderness (and even moistness) may have the edge.

Someone here mentioned that everyone should get the same meat. That is taking things too far. My plan is better. Have all judges surgically altered so that they can eat 1/4 pound of every entry, swallowing each bite but it being emptied into a huge pit at the bottom of the judges table... a kind of pre-duodenal poop bag.

 

[Pitmaster T]

To be prudent - the questions were:

BUT what is the real challenge in cooking in competition?

So, what is our real challenge???

And what hits the judges first in that first bite?

Whats the challenge.. taste?? or texture?

Soooo...what has more of an influence on the judges?

When the judge bites that thigh, what do they notice first. Juicy, tender, dry or chewy?

Can perfection in texture mentally influence the judge and over shadow mediocre flavors. ??

Why is the texture weight the lowest? Or is THAT WHY the texture weight is lower(to balance the scoring?)

You cooked it perfectly, but the judged hated your profile.. why get nailed.. ??

What if..... the weights were reversed, giving texture more weight than flavor???

 

[Pitmaster T]

Okay I did a quick regional poll. I read each post to 43 and through out all that did not answer (and that's okay) and those that commented twice. I divided them into regions. North South and West (there was one west)

North

13 opinions 7 for Texture/Tenderness 5 for Taste

Although Sled's post was indeed dripping with tasty and saucy sarcasm, I counted as a vote for Texture/tenderness

South

10 Opinions, 6 for Texture.Tenderness, 4 for Taste but I reserve Ranger's opinion until I can "get at him" and show him he really does not believe what he is saying. He is near me.

West

One opinion Texture/tenderness

So overall that's 14 for Texture/Tenderness, 10 for taste. I also did not count opinions that (although I think are credible) claimed the two were intertwined. I agree with this partly but just wanted to get a count of taste versus whatever.

Of course this does not take into account if the person is from the south and living in the North.

 

[Q-Dat]

I just know that every time friends of mine visit up north somewhere they say it was nice but the food was really bland. I do realise though, that Louisiana is definitely on the high end of the flavor spectrum. I have no doubt that the food in Wisconsin tastes fine to the folks up there. And many of them would no doubt call our food over seasoned.

Texture seems to be pretty universal.

 

[Dale P]

Our last contest we cooked at we tanked. I know why too, because everything we turned in was either tough or mushy. The taste was "i thought" excellent but we failed on texture. We got what we deserved, nothing.

 

[boogiesnap]

here's a question.

what would the raw scores need to be BEFORE weighting for there to be a tie in 2 entries.

1 that nailed tenderness, but not taste. and 1 that nailed taste and not tenderness. appearance being equal.

how bad can tenderness score and still have taste overcome and vice versa to creat 2 equal final scores?

i don't know the numbers/can't do the math

 

[Pitmaster T]

dance with the boogie get downnnnnn cuz boogie snap is always the best in town.

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

We don't change flavor profiles event to event. We know our combination of rub and sauce can win. The biggest factor for us is whether or not the foods texture is correct. I think that they are both linked together but after you find a flavor profile that doesn't taste like dirt the challenge is still making sure it's cooked correctly. I imagine there aren't many entries in a contest that want to make a judge want to gag. I'd be willing to bet there are several entries that are tough as leather.