Night Train Brisket-FAIL..UTTER FAIL

I did the night train a while back but I was not sure how big the flat was. It might have been more than 5 pounds, probably was. I still followed the instructions to a T and I adjusted my oven to be the correct temp since my oven runs about 15* low. It came out really good and gave me a good baseline to aim for when doing them on the BBQ. Try it again.
 
Thank you guys for the encouragement. I think my problem was....well....ME...ME trying to be to "smart" about. I think I will try it again!!!!
 
The timing is no linear in a braise. In the Nightrain experiment, you are braising and the amount of time it takes to get done will not track in a strict mathematical ratio due to the vagaries of how mass takes and transfers heat as well as the moisture content and shape of said mass. Oddly, the amount of time cooking the 8lb brisket roast would have been very close to the time for the 5lb roast. As you heat the moist environment in the foil, you are actually raising the temperature of the liquids inside of the roast at the same time. Given that the larger flatter shape is going to heat from all sides at the same time, and given the flat shape, the interior moisture is heating at about the same rate despite the weight difference. This means that the actual rendering of the connective tissue will begin to occur at about the same time, and the stall as connective tissue renders will be about the same. The primary difference being the total amount of connective tissue rendering.

In a smoker, this actually also applies. Hence, the mystery of how a 10lb packer and a 14lb packer can both take 12 hours to cook. Part of the problem with using time, versus feel, is that the individual composition of meat varies widely (hence the 22 hour pork butt). Heat penetration is influenced by mass and shape of meat. Oddly, mass of a given roast is determined by both density of tissue and amount of internal moisture.

The major difference in timing is actually in the composition of the meat, not the weight alone. You're more likely to have succeeded with a 5.5 hour cook time over an 7 hour cook time. I would give it another shot. This time with the shorter cook time. And a smaller cut of brisket to save a little money.



Overcooked.... and ^^^^^^^^ thats why. :clap2:
 
OK, I'm not familiar with "Night Train Brisket", but is there something against the rules of said technique where you can't stick a remote thermo through the foil and then just keep an eye on it.....just in case?

Just sayin.
Maybe that doesn't make it "Night Train Brisket" but at least it wouldn't have to be chopped brisket.


.....?
 
OK, I'm not familiar with "Night Train Brisket", but is there something against the rules of said technique where you can't stick a remote thermo through the foil and then just keep an eye on it.....just in case?

Just sayin.
Maybe that doesn't make it "Night Train Brisket" but at least it wouldn't have to be chopped brisket.


.....?

Exactly! Someone with common sense...I love it! :clap2:
 
OK, I'm not familiar with "Night Train Brisket", but is there something against the rules of said technique where you can't stick a remote thermo through the foil and then just keep an eye on it.....just in case?

Just sayin.
Maybe that doesn't make it "Night Train Brisket" but at least it wouldn't have to be chopped brisket.


.....?

I do not have one. Also, I've been told that one can be fooled going by temp alone. That ultimately "its done when it's done" comes from feel and not necessarily a reading on a thermo. I guess that is why you get a lot of people that say "But I pulled it when the thermo read 190 or 200 yet it was still a bit tough".

But yeah, if I would have had a thermo I could at least monitored it better but I didn't have one. And could have still been susceptible to going the other way with it and pulling it too early. I think that is the intent of the "Night Train" brisket experiment. Going by feel is more accurate than by a number on a screen. But you have to know what "that feel" is to be able to reference to it when cooking brisket. :boxing:
 
You are correct about feel, but you have been going by time.

Not temp or feel. Temp gets you in the ball park, feel then gets your around the bases. (hmmm, in more ways that one I might add.)
 
By the way, use an electric knife to slice it unless you have a VERY good slicing knife. A buddy of mine complained about his brisket breaking up when slicing and then he went to the electric knife with no problems.
 
I do not have one. Also, I've been told that one can be fooled going by temp alone. That ultimately "its done when it's done" comes from feel and not necessarily a reading on a thermo. I guess that is why you get a lot of people that say "But I pulled it when the thermo read 190 or 200 yet it was still a bit tough".

But yeah, if I would have had a thermo I could at least monitored it better but I didn't have one. And could have still been susceptible to going the other way with it and pulling it too early. I think that is the intent of the "Night Train" brisket experiment. Going by feel is more accurate than by a number on a screen. But you have to know what "that feel" is to be able to reference to it when cooking brisket. :boxing:

Yes, I get that. I absolutely agree that you can't JUST go by temp. But What I'm trying to say is what VVVVV HE VVVVV said..

You are correct about feel, but you have been going by time.

Not temp or feel. Temp gets you in the ball park, feel then gets your around the bases. (hmmm, in more ways that one I might add.)

I only use thermos to tell when I need to start "feeling". No need to even lift the lid if the temp is below 170. When it hits 185-190, THEN I'll start sticking it. Then I just watch it and if it's close, wait another 5 degrees, poke it....nope not yet....another 5 degrees.....poke it again....Oooooo ALMOST......another 5 degrees.....and then BOOM! PERFECT!!!

I've not experienced this problem yet, but as I understand brisket...there's a pretty narrow window. Once you miss it, it's just overcooked.
 
Yes, I get that. I absolutely agree that you can't JUST go by temp. But What I'm trying to say is what VVVVV HE VVVVV said..



I only use thermos to tell when I need to start "feeling". No need to even lift the lid if the temp is below 170. When it hits 185-190, THEN I'll start sticking it. Then I just watch it and if it's close, wait another 5 degrees, poke it....nope not yet....another 5 degrees.....poke it again....Oooooo ALMOST......another 5 degrees.....and then BOOM! PERFECT!!!

I've not experienced this problem yet, but as I understand brisket...there's a pretty narrow window. Once you miss it, it's just overcooked.

If I had a thermo probe I'd agree. But I don't have one. Also with the exception of me thinking I had to estimate on the cooking time (due to the weight difference) I wanted to follow the directions to a tee. So i did.

Either way I've learned a lot in this thread so I'll try it again and see what happens. :thumb:
 
If I had a thermo probe I'd agree. But I don't have one. Also with the exception of me thinking I had to estimate on the cooking time (due to the weight difference) I wanted to follow the directions to a tee. So i did.

Either way I've learned a lot in this thread so I'll try it again and see what happens. :thumb:

That's the right attitude and I'm sure the next one you do will give you exactly what you are looking for :thumb:
 
That's the right attitude and I'm sure the next one you do will give you exactly what you are looking for :thumb:

I think you'r right especially since I've now learned that an eight lb brisket will be done relatively about the same time as a five pounder when doing this experiment. I love this forum. :clap2:
 
Shread the brisket up into little peices and then mix with your choice of BBQ sauce. It makes for an awsome sandwich. I have screwed up brisket in a similar way but never let it go to waste.
 
Exactly! Someone with common sense...I love it! :clap2:

The purpose for this exersize is to be able to feel the probe go into the meat like butter. There is no mention of using a temp probe in this experiment, ASFAIK. It's a training op for probe tenderness testing.

You are missing the point of the whole (nice) training opportunity.

It's all about being able to tell when a brisket is done without using a friggin' thermometer!
 
If I had a thermo probe I'd agree. But I don't have one. Also with the exception of me thinking I had to estimate on the cooking time (due to the weight difference) I wanted to follow the directions to a tee. So i did.

Either way I've learned a lot in this thread so I'll try it again and see what happens. :thumb:


even if the coin isnt there for a thermopen, stop at target or where ever and grab one of those $10 digital ones or an even cheaper dial type meat thermo. you will have to wait and additional 6.7 seconds for your reading, but you will have a reading as well as a sharp pointy object for probing your meat.:shocked:
 
The purpose for this exersize is to be able to feel the probe go into the meat like butter. There is no mention of using a temp probe in this experiment, ASFAIK. It's a training op for probe tenderness testing.

You are missing the point of the whole (nice) training opportunity.

It's all about being able to tell when a brisket is done without using a friggin' thermometer!

I'll be honest...I have no idea what you're talking about. :thumb:
 
The purpose for this exercise is to be able to feel the probe go into the meat like butter. There is no mention of using a temp probe in this experiment, ASFAIK. It's a training op for probe tenderness testing.

You are missing the point of the whole (nice) training opportunity.

It's all about being able to tell when a brisket is done without using a friggin' thermometer!
El Ropo is right! No disrespect to any brethren out there. All responses are great! Sticking a probe is a great way to tell what going on inside while cooking! But the purpose of Donnie's Night Train thread, was to teach how a brisket should feel when is probe tender. A great tasting brisket is a result! I would try it again. Buy a temp gauge, check your oven temp. Don't sway from the experiment, trim the briskie down to 5# as stated. Use the 3# for stew meat or chili!:thumb:
 
El Ropo, I sort of read that Night Train OP...hard read so I just scanned over it. I get the "experiment" part...steam a brisket in foil for a certain amount of time and let a probe (for me that's always my thermometer) slide in and feel no resistance. Got it.

Now...I use my thermo as a probe because I feel it's one of my best tools for the job. If you have a problem with the friggin' thermometer, then that's your issue.

The OP of this thread way overcooked a brisket. Keeping an eye on the actual temperature would have helped him...along with checking tenderness. I guess everyone has different ways of teaching and learning.

Have a wonderful friggin' day!
 
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