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Should non KCBS members have to pay a fee for competing in a KCBS sanctioned event?

  • YES

    Votes: 44 54.3%
  • NO

    Votes: 37 45.7%

  • Total voters
    81
Well you could always join the KCBS

to get a $3 a month paper that realy only covers kc area storys. right now kcbs membership is not werth the money in this area.(yes i am a member for now)
 
(Well you could always join the KCBS)

to get a $3 a month paper that realy only covers kc area storys. right now kcbs membership is not werth the money in this area.(yes i am a member for now)[/quote]
 
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35423

Go this thread and read post #11.

You will see, I stated by 2009, but it is stated as actually 2010 you will have to be a member. That is the proposal..... In other words in my opinion, they want to be the dictatorship.

If you will look at some of the other societies, they follow the KCBS rules a lot. They may modify them to their suit themselves, they are looking to KCBS.

So my opinion again, if say you are a member in the MABA, you will not be able to compete in a KCBS without paying a premium or joining KCBS as well. Now you have multiple memberships in order to compete in say one competition say in another state. EX: if I rolled into Virginia to a comp. I am a member of MABA, but this is a KCBS event. I would have to have a KCBS membership to compete even though I am a member of MABA.

This is almost like double taxation. Is it just getting to be a money thing, or the sport of the game?

Again, just my opinion.
 
How the hell did you come to those comclusions. I think you are just trying to make trouble. If you really feel like that I think it's time for you to get a different hobby.

So others can voice their thoughts and ideas, but I can't? ? ? ? ? ?

Go read some of the other numerous threads on this site about this same topic.....

again, here is this one about it also. And read topic #11 if you didn't read my previous post about the mandatory membership in the making.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35423

Maybe you should read more.....
 
Well guys the #11 reply was mine and there are alot of what if's in it. If it is not going to be made mandatory later down the road why throw all the organizers under the bus, making us charge more for non members teams. Why pick the organizer who work really hard to make a place for the teams to cook add more to there work load. We are not employees of KCBS! It is surprising that the BOD members that are reading this will not reply. This is what the letter stated:

Our recommendation is to charge an additional $25 for a non-KCBS team to enter your contest. To avoid this fee, all they have to prove is that one of their head cooks is a KCBS member in good standing by providing to you their KCBS member number. While this is a recommended action at this time, please note that we anticipate this program to be fully implemented at all contests in 2009.

So were will this go from here? Who is going to provide the checks and balancing system to do this and at what date during your entry fee process is this done? As I see this; it is only a membership drive and who has the most contact with teams outside the KCBS office daily are the organizers who mail out, email and call the teams letting them know of there bbq cookoffs that they are running. I am all for a membership drive to get new members and to grow the Society. So with 8000+ members why not just have a all out membership drive once a year offering prizes for the person who gets the most members and or the state that gets the most members? Better ways than try and force it on the organizers. Am I wrong in stating this isnt as much about charging more for non member teams than it is as trying to give/force teams to join; really making this truly that is is, a membership drive! You could ask your self why after all these years are they now doing this? Again nothing wrong with teams having to be members and I want the KCBS to grow yearly but are there under lying issues behind this? Another thing if KCBS wants the organizers to do this then make it a rule in the rules book or sanctioning agreement and stop making it look as if the organizers are doing this!!!!!! Teams this is KCBS doing this.
 
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Without naming names, I'd like to ask everyone to
A)keep the conversation friendly
B)keep the conversation friendly
or C) take it up privately via PM or email
 
Phil,

I am glad you see the point. The idea is to give a benefit to members. The CBJ classes give benefits to members why not the contests. And rather than the grief we would hear from organizers if KCBS wanted the money, we decided to let the organizers keep the money. Again, an advantage to the organizers. The organizers wishing to participate will be listed on the website under member benefits as well. A little more free advertising. We never said this was manditory.

Linda Mullane
 
I voted YES thinking it was a no brainer and then I see it's almost split - man I am shocked. I guess a lot of folks just aren't members of very many other organizations is all I can figure.
 
Being a past member of SCCA, Sports Car Club of America, I competed in their autocross program. The SCCA has split the US into 50 or so regions and I was not only a member of SCCA, but a member of the local Kansas Region. When I competed in my local regions events, I paid a fee like $15 bucks. If a neighboring SCCA region competitor, like from The Kansas City region SCCA came to our region to compete, that person paid an additional fee of $5 bucks or $20 bucks total to compete. If a non SCCA member wanted to compete, the fee was $25 bucks. So there was an advantage to being an SCCA member and also a member of your local region. When I went to Kansas City and competed in the Kansas City Region SCCA events, I paid a bit more than their region members, but less than a non member. I can't say there were any other benifits, much like one brother wrote about only seeing the Bullsheet as a benifit of KCBS membership. In SCCA I got a monthly magazine and some stickers. But when the major competition's were held, like regional or national championships, you had to be an SCCA member to enter and you had to have competed that year in some regional events to qualify for the year end national events. Having never competed at the Royal or other huge BBQ events, I don't know if you have to be a KCBS member to enter and compete.
Having read that there are other bodies like KCBS, perhaps handling it like we did in SCCA might make it work. There were other Autocross clubs, not affiliated with SCCA, and we offered them a discount when competing in our events kinda as a courtesy discount and they did the same for us when we went to compete in theirs.
It will be interesting to see if BBQ event cooridinators start upcharging non members of what ever sanctioning body is handling the event. A KCBS membership is around $40 bucks so at $25 or $50 buck upcharge on top of the entry fee makes it a no brainer to be a member of that sanctioning body, depending on how many events you plan on entering.
 
It will be interesting to see if BBQ event cooridinators start upcharging non members of what ever sanctioning body is handling the event. A KCBS membership is around $40 bucks so at $25 or $50 buck upcharge on top of the entry fee makes it a no brainer to be a member of that sanctioning body, depending on how many events you plan on entering.


IT is that for now, but lets look down the road, this is a way they can dictate that you have to be a member to compete. The next logical step for the KCBS would to be raise the membership fee. Average competitor does 5 contest a year - 5 x $25 is $125 - so lets make membership $100. it is still a bargain.

That makes perfect business sense for me.
 
Without naming names, I'd like to ask everyone to
A)keep the conversation friendly
B)keep the conversation friendly
or C) take it up privately via PM or email

Jorge I totally agree with what you said here.

Please heed Jorges thoughts here folks.
 
As an organizer, I can say that KCBS does let me have access to the updated membership list...if I pay $75 rental fee. I've 'rented' the list the last couple of years for direct mail purposes to help promote the event I was organizing. If they mandate that we have to verify members on our own, I certainly hope they will not charge us for the list. Otherwise, I would be more than happy to let them take the time to verify all the teams for me.
 
Ok I did not read every post so hope this has not already be said.

Why not charge the non members the current membership fee for the first contest they do in a year, which would include the KCBS Bullsheet and what ever perceived privileges come with it and allow them to enter as many contest as they wish for that year, just like any other member. This I would think would help up membership for the KCBS and put everyone on a level playing field.

The entry form could carry a place for putting the KCBS member number on it with the entry fee for them and a second place for non members with the added amount of the membership fee, made payable to the KCBS for the membership. The organizer would hand that portion over to the KCBS. It would be up to the KCBS to monitor the membership numbers and a bill sent to the teams that clam to be but are not members. These teams would not be allowed to compete again without paying the owed fee.

Having said that I would like to see the KCBS work a little harder to get members discounts on food, supplies or anything else to help entice new membership. I can only recall a discount being offered on meat in the KC area a long time ago and some hotel discounts but other than that nada.
Dave
 
Ok I did not read every post so hope this has not already be said.

Why not charge the non members the current membership fee for the first contest they do in a year, which would include the KCBS Bullsheet and what ever perceived privileges come with it and allow them to enter as many contest as they wish for that year, just like any other member. This I would think would help up membership for the KCBS and put everyone on a level playing field.

The entry form could carry a place for putting the KCBS member number on it with the entry fee for them and a second place for non members with the added amount of the membership fee, made payable to the KCBS for the membership. The organizer would hand that portion over to the KCBS. It would be up to the KCBS to monitor the membership numbers and a bill sent to the teams that clam to be but are not members. These teams would not be allowed to compete again without paying the owed fee.

Having said that I would like to see the KCBS work a little harder to get members discounts on food, supplies or anything else to help entice new membership. I can only recall a discount being offered on meat in the KC area a long time ago and some hotel discounts but other than that nada.
Dave


I have done it that way for the CBBQA
No one complained to me
 
Phil,

I am glad you see the point. The idea is to give a benefit to members. The CBJ classes give benefits to members why not the contests. And rather than the grief we would hear from organizers if KCBS wanted the money, we decided to let the organizers keep the money. Again, an advantage to the organizers. The organizers wishing to participate will be listed on the website under member benefits as well. A little more free advertising. We never said this was manditory.

Linda Mullane

Linda - I think most of us see the point. And yes there is a value in the idea. But you have to remember that the goal of most events isn't tied to KCBS. KCBS does not fund these events. Many events existed before KCBS did... Most organizers work all year and are trying to do the best they can for thier cause (or to earn money as professional event coordinator). Each event would have to weigh the goals of the event and determine if increasing thier entry is what they want to do. It wouldnt matter to any of us KCBS members, if we get a "discount" - but there are usually alot of other issues that come into play.

KCBS is a service provider to these events - they charge to sanction them, and also charge a fee for each team entered.

Rather than ask Organizers to raise entry fees arbitararily so that KCBS can then offer a discount - why not take another track: Why doesnt KCBS use thier own marketing dollars to fund the Per team charges, saving organizers $12 /team Then the organizers could pass that savings along. Other non-kcbs teams wanting the benefit of membership... would then join. KCBS gets increased membership, the organizers get to keep the entry fees they set for their events, and all the other teams benefit as well.

If KCBS is going to use other organizers events, they need to have some $$ in the game. Give a tangible benefit to the organizers, and everything else will fall into line. Again, Linda -- your point is great, and well taken. Most of us feel that the flaw is in how you are wanting to execute the idea.

Why not allot KCBS marketing funds to support this membership drive, rather than assume organizers are going to want the additional workload .

Or take some of the real benefits the KCBS provides, and make them only available to members -- that would drive people to join as well, if they are competitors.
It's hard to do that however if the goal of the organization is to spread the art of BBQ to everyone. (not just members) Tough situation -- and one that needs more discussion before programs are implemented.
 
Ok. Let me try this one.

If I am reading this right, what is being proposed, and not yet concrete, is that every team will have to be a member of KCBS in order to compete. Right or wrong????

If right, then this will basically be a closed bbq society to the public. If you are not a member, you are out, go somewhere else. Right or wrong????

What a way for a membership drive......
 
Ok. Let me try this one.

If I am reading this right, what is being proposed, and not yet concrete, is that every team will have to be a member of KCBS in order to compete. Right or wrong????

If right, then this will basically be a closed bbq society to the public. If you are not a member, you are out, go somewhere else. Right or wrong????

What a way for a membership drive......

Nope, that's not the way I read it. (from the original message posted in another thread) You will have to PAY MORE to compete, not you CAN'T compete. :icon_cool

Chief
 
Nope, that's not the way I read it. (from the original message posted in another thread) You will have to PAY MORE to compete, not you CAN'T compete. :icon_cool

Chief

back to post #11
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35423

Direct quote from Arlie to Merl:

"If KCBS id directing this nonmember charge in 2008 and telling us they are going to make it mandatory in 2009 that we charge more for non member teams is this headed toward in 2010 that it will be mandatory that all teams be KCBS member teams in good standing to cook in a KCBS sanctioned conetst?"


Again, this is not in concrete, but it sounds like it is the direction they will be taking.


So am I still misreading what it is looking like it very likely will be?????
 
I have been watching this tread and Pondering a lot.
I can see both sides of the equation here- both KCBS and the competitors.

But, KCBS is not the "only game in town" any more!
Lots of sanctioning bodies are growing and are putting on outstanding events.

I becomes a practical matter if each and every one of them requires membership to compete! :twisted:

I pay my $$ to KCBS and FBA now for total of about $70/year.
I now have a real trailer to cook with, so what if I want to drag it to TX or the NE?
Both trips are real possibilities.
Do I have to shell out $35 or so to each to compete in an event or two before I come back to FL????
Do I get 3 copies of the National BBQ news (much better than Bullsheet, IMHO) as the only benefit since I am not competeting for TOTY or whatever?

I just do not know where this is all going.

TIM
 
Tim - Good points...

While each organization is trying to do a good thing, what I see happening longer term is much like what I've seen & experienced in other activities with organized bodies etc...

FRACTIONALIZATION !!!!

While we might consider it "regional" today and all in good fun etc. to have KCBS, FBA, NEBS, TX, CA etc. & and all the other state societies with smaller objectives/missions that I don't know all the initials for what will ulitmately happen is that as the money gets bigger for societies, organizers, teams etc. egos get bigger and so does the greed.

Every organization will think they can do it better because of how they treat the members, how they determine the rules, how they keep records etc. We'll then have numerous teams claiming to be state, regional and world champions etc based on organizations.

Some of you may laugh and think I'm way off base here, but I've experienced it with my own eyes elsewhere after being involved for many years in competitive athletics. I see the same writing on the wall as the popularity grows.

Whatever it is, it is.. but I'm not gonna complain.. I'll just make a decision in the end about where I think the best interests lie.
 
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