Judges doin dishes

[a075923]

My first season judging and have numerous signups requiring 3-5 hour drive time and have booked rooms for some. Trying to get 15+ done this season.

I wouldn't be happy if I drive five hours, and have a room reserved, and then told they won't need me to judge. I must have been asleep during this discussion in CBJ class.

 

[luckyduk]

Just a thought...maybe they are just protecting their rights to not allow a bad judge to judge...

 

[a075923]

Lucky, that could be a reason...however the much more honorable thing is to discuss with the offending judge and find a solution.

 

[hedge]

Define "bad judge"

 

[Jorge]

Define "bad judge"

Judges that develop and apply their own standards.
Judges that judge based on their own personal biases.
Judges that ignore clear direction, scoring lower for lack of $ muscle or burnt ends when instructed to only score what is presented.
Judges that refuse to award a 9 because nobody is that good.
Judges that refuse to award a 7 because of all the time and $ cooks have invested.

Shall I go on?

^^^^Those judges are a minority, but they exist. The issues aren't solely with judges. If/when changes are implemented to fix the complex problems, some cooks will not like the results. More than one Rep has told me that the percentage of judges scoring 8+ is above 80%. I know cooks have gotten better. There is no way that over 80% of cooks are turning in 8-9 BBQ.

 

[gettinbasted]

Don't worry, you'll be fine. KCBS has one objective, and that is feeding judges.

Yesterday in Tupelo they had 11 tables for 45 cooks. There were 4 entries on my tables.

Just show up! We'll fit you in!

 

[Scottie]

I agree with what Andrew stated above. Over booking has to happen. That is me speaking as an organizer. Fining or banning judges that don't show would basically be the same thing. It screws over the organizer, cooks and other CBJ's that wanted to sign up when judges don't show up. About the only real way to do it as an organizer is to take the first judges to sign up and they get first Crack at judging. I would bet that some judges would volunteer to do "dishes" so someone else could judge. Otherwise, if you were the last to sign up, expect to be on the volunteer table... I just truly believe that this whole feeling that BBQ comps wouldn't go on without CBJ's is ludicrous. Please, understand that is no way directed at you or anyone in particular. Unfortunately, CBJ's are replaceable in our new society. There is such a large pool of judges waiting to take a spot, CBJ's aren't really in a position to be stomping their feet down in protest. Again, that is no slam. If it's a slam, it is directed at KCBS and why they haven't put on a moratorium on new CBJ'S classes. Pure greed to get more members, that is why.

Ed, I do not disagree with your post though. I would be pissed if I was the first to sign up and I got volunteer clean up table. So I do get your point.

Scottie, you were quick to jump in...Now that you are semi-retired and occasionally judge to keep your fingers in the works, tell me your thoughts on signing up for a contest in January (they're full if you don't) then come July you find someone to watch the kids, dedicate half your weekend to judge a contest, drive an hour and a half and when you get there are told you won't be judging instead you will be dumping boxes.
What would be your response to this Rep?
Ed
P.S. Fining judges that don't show up is stupid..... they should be banned.

 

[DoctorCueNC]

Why not just go to a waitlist scenario where a contest can overbook, but those overbooked are on a waitlist and told that when they sign up. Then they can make the decision before hand as to whether to go and take the risk they may be asked to volunteer if enough of the other judges show up and they're still on the waitlist. Empty seats filled in order off waitlist of sign ups. To prevent all on waitlist spots from not showing up because they don't want to risk it, have it set so that if they've been waitlisted once they can't be waitlisted at their next judging stop so they have a guarantee of judging at that contest.

 

[Jorge]

One valid point in all of this; judges are required to be KCBS members.
Cooks are not required to be members.
Seems like the majority of KCBS members are judges.
It would be interesting to see the membership numbers.

Judges are not required to be KCBS members, or CBJs unless the organizer institutes such a policy unless something has changed that I'm not aware of. To claim that they used 100% CBJs the prior year, a contest has to exclusively use CBJs who are members.

As to cooks, my understanding is that to be a qualifier for The Royal, and Jack, contests must among other things, be "Open". At one time that meant membership in the sanctioning organization was not mandatory. With Sam's Club local contests being considered qualifiers now, I don't know if that's an exception or the rule now.

 

[fwdiii]

No need to get all bent out of shape......I would gladly help do the "dishes" if asked. Takes many hands make the event a success! Would really seem to be fair if the judges are overbooked, to let the judges who are not on the list to help out and if a spot opens up, they get it. You are still involved once you get there, but if you don't want to be a "dish doer" than say so and your name does not go on the list.

 

[QN]

Judges are not required to be KCBS members, or CBJs unless the organizer institutes such a policy unless something has changed that I'm not aware of. To claim that they used 100% CBJs the prior year, a contest has to exclusively use CBJs who are members.

As to cooks, my understanding is that to be a qualifier for The Royal, and Jack, contests must among other things, be "Open". At one time that meant membership in the sanctioning organization was not mandatory. With Sam's Club local contests being considered qualifiers now, I don't know if that's an exception or the rule now.

KCBS CERTIFIED judges are required to be KCBS members. If you do not renew your membership you are no longer "certified". Given the original post, I thought this thread was specifically about KCBS judges/dishwashers/whatever.

 

[rob g]

My wife and I drove 10 hours last year to judge at an event we were accepted at. The morning of the event we were told they had too many judges and we could work the leftover table. We weren't happy but did work the table as it was that or nothing. The organizer knew we were coming from afar. They should have had the courtesy to tell us we may not be required to judge and let us make the decision if we wanted to spend the time and money to travel so far for nothing. It really started our holiday on a sour note.

I can understand an organizers need to have enough judges to fill the event but on the other hand if they don't have the decency to let people know they may not judge then they have no right to complain if judges don't show up. Enough judges travel to events and invest 4-$500 a weekend with no other expectation than to be able to sit at the judging table.

 

[Jorge]

KCBS CERTIFIED judges are required to be KCBS members. If you do not renew your membership you are no longer "certified". Given the original post, I thought this thread was specifically about KCBS judges/dishwashers/whatever.

Mark, my point was that there is nothing forcing organizers to use certified judges. If KCBS chooses not to change their policy, and certified judges choose to not participate, there is nothing to prevent organizers from filling those seats with judges that aren't certified. It's probably not the best solution, but every Saturday in Texas, and elsewhere, it seems to work.

 

[rorkin]

My wife and I drove 10 hours last year to judge at an event we were accepted at. The morning of the event we were told they had too many judges and we could work the leftover table. We weren't happy but did work the table as it was that or nothing. The organizer knew we were coming from afar. They should have had the courtesy to tell us we may not be required to judge and let us make the decision if we wanted to spend the time and money to travel so far for nothing. It really started our holiday on a sour note.

I can understand an organizers need to have enough judges to fill the event but on the other hand if they don't have the decency to let people know they may not judge then they have no right to complain if judges don't show up. Enough judges travel to events and invest 4-$500 a weekend with no other expectation than to be able to sit at the judging table.

That is just mean.. they should at least have seated one of you

 

[GrillBillie_D]

KCBS CERTIFIED judges are required to be KCBS members. If you do not renew your membership you are no longer "certified". Given the original post, I thought this thread was specifically about KCBS judges/dishwashers/whatever.

This has been one of my pet peeves about KCBS....once you take a class, you are supposedly a certified judge....but that certification only remains as long as you pay your dues. How does that make sense?

 

[fwdiii]

This has been one of my pet peeves about KCBS....once you take a class, you are supposedly a certified judge....but that certification only remains as long as you pay your dues. How does that make sense?

Lol....pretty ironic. Judges not required to be trained further to maintain certified judge status, just pay a dues.

 

[QN]

Mark, my point was that there is nothing forcing organizers to use certified judges. If KCBS chooses not to change their policy, and certified judges choose to not participate, there is nothing to prevent organizers from filling those seats with judges that aren't certified. It's probably not the best solution, but every Saturday in Texas, and elsewhere, it seems to work.

True!

 

[Funtimebbq]

I was able to have a brief conversation earlier this year with two KCBS Board members regarding my pet issue, balance the judging tables by using the data compiled by KCBS. That conversation opened my eyes to a problem in many areas of judges signing up for several contests on the same weekend, receiving several acceptances and not letting organizers know they are not coming. This leads to contests having a huge number of no show judges. The current solution is to overbook the number of judges needed which results on the OP's complaint.
My suggestion to the Board members was to require (as part of the sanctioning contract) organizers to use the KCBS judge sign up system (or judgebbq.com perhaps) where the system can reject a judge who has already signed up for a contest on a particular weekend. Using this method will give organizers a more accurate count and they would not have to overbook by a vast amount. It would give judges some assurance that they will actually get to judge. No call/no shows can then be tracked through a national system to see if certain judges have a pattern and they can be removed (suspended) for a time. Hopefully, this could also lead to KCBS implementing a table averaging system if they know which judges will be attending a contest with some measure of accuracy.

 

[Pitmaster T]

Judges are not required to be KCBS members, or CBJs unless the organizer institutes such a policy unless something has changed that I'm not aware of. To claim that they used 100% CBJs the prior year, a contest has to exclusively use CBJs who are members.

I am not sure this is correct. Perhaps you are saying "just a judge" and not a certified one. I know if they have to, they will seat "non-CBJ." I bet that is what you mean.

As far as CERTIFIED judges you do have to be a member. One year they lost my check or some problem and my membership lapsed. I had a receipt. Anywho... my membership expired and thus my judges' certificate. I sent them a scan of the receipt which I paid at an event.

I got an email from the KCBS which could not have been nicer. They apologized, took my payment again as a credit card, and made sure I knew I did not have to "retrain" to get my certificate for judge... and... started my membership from the point I paid the second time instead of retroactively. They did not have to do that but did. Such great people that actually make me want to be less of s dickhead.

last note: I always get tickled at those that say "your check is your receipt, what do you need a receipt for?" This is an example of how much you need a receipt lol. And no... the reps that took my check did not question the need for a receipt... just some people do.

 

[Jorge]

I am not sure this is correct. Perhaps you are saying "just a judge" and not a certified one. I know if they have to, they will seat "non-CBJ." I bet that is what you mean.

As far as CERTIFIED judges you do have to be a member. One year they lost my check or some problem and my membership lapsed. I had a receipt. Anywho... my membership expired and thus my judges' certificate. I sent them a scan of the receipt which I paid at an event.

I got an email from the KCBS which could not have been nicer. They apologized, took my payment again as a credit card, and made sure I knew I did not have to "retrain" to get my certificate for judge... and... started my membership from the point I paid the second time instead of retroactively. They did not have to do that but did. Such great people that actually make me want to be less of s dickhead.

last note: I always get tickled at those that say "your check is your receipt, what do you need a receipt for?" This is an example of how much you need a receipt lol. And no... the reps that took my check did not question the need for a receipt... just some people do.

Correct, to be a CBJ the individual must be a current member. Contest Reps, will seat the judges provided by the organizer, if they meet published requirements. They can be CBJs, friends, family, VIPs, or people recruited off the street. KCBS does not mandate, and Reps can't require judges to be CBJs.