winning bbq sauce and rub

johnlewis469 said:

Hey y'all, getting ready to do my first KCBS comp in quite a few years next week. Was wondering what's hitting these days as far competition rubs and sauces. I used to use Plowboys rub, Headcountry and Blues Hog sauce. Is any of that still working? Thanks for any recommendations!

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Blues Hog still wins, but cooks that I know cut it with another sauce to thin it out. Kosmos is used a lot on the circuit from what I've seen. So is Oakridge. I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies, but my reply is based on the top 20 TOY teams, if that means anything to you.

Okie Sawbones said:

Blues Hog still wins, but cooks that I know cut it with another sauce to thin it out. Kosmos is used a lot on the circuit from what I've seen. So is Oakridge. I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies, but my reply is based on the top 20 TOY teams, if that means anything to you.

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Is that what’s working for the top 20 TOY? Good to know!

I use Blues Hog straight out of the jar on two of my meats.

gettinbasted said:

Is that what’s working for the top 20 TOY? Good to know!

I use Blues Hog straight out of the jar on two of my meats.

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Then you get knocked a point by me and several judges that I know for being over sauced. As a judge, I dislike ribs and chicken thighs with an 1/8 inch coat of Blues Hog. Nothing like picking up a rib and bringing half a pound of parsley with it.

But I am not going to argue the point, or play the cooks vs. judges game -- that is just silly. Maybe judges in your area go for it, so if so, run with it. You are obviously doing well. Other top 20 teams I know blend Blues Hog. I know. I cooked with one, and they are an up and coming team.

Good luck to you next year. Maybe you can take that Okie. :thumb:

Okie Sawbones said:

Maybe judges in your area go for it, so if so, run with it.

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His "area"? You mean the entire country?
Dude wins everywhere he goes.

No, I don't.

johnlewis469 said:

Hey y'all, getting ready to do my first KCBS comp in quite a few years next week. Was wondering what's hitting these days as far competition rubs and sauces. I used to use Plowboys rub, Headcountry and Blues Hog sauce. Is any of that still working? Thanks for any recommendations!

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It'll work if you cook it correctly. While not a top 20 team, I get a few calls using those sauces.

Okie Sawbones said:

I cooked with one, and they are an up and coming team.

Good luck to you next year. Maybe you can take that Okie. :thumb:

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I pretty sure Danny has been winning for decades?

Burnt at Both Endz said:

I pretty sure Danny has been winning for decades?

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Danny goes way back. He retired from cooking. Corey is running the show now. Danny still makes sauces and turn-in boxes.

Okie Sawbones said:

Then you get knocked a point by me and several judges that I know for being over sauced. As a judge, I dislike ribs and chicken thighs with an 1/8 inch coat of Blues Hog. Nothing like picking up a rib and bringing half a pound of parsley with it.

But I am not going to argue the point, or play the cooks vs. judges game -- that is just silly. Maybe judges in your area go for it, so if so, run with it. You are obviously doing well. Other top 20 teams I know blend Blues Hog. I know. I cooked with one, and they are an up and coming team.

Good luck to you next year. Maybe you can take that Okie. :thumb:

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Absolutely do not want to wade into the personal urinating match but there is a point I'd like to make concerning judge scoring. You stated

"Then you get knocked a point by me and several judges that I know for being over sauced. As a judge, I dislike ribs and chicken thighs with an 1/8 inch coat of Blues Hog. Nothing like picking up a rib and bringing half a pound of parsley with it."

There is no rule in KCBS scoring regarding heavy sauce application deserving a reduction in point totals. This is a personal dislike of yours and should never affect your score. I too share your dislike of thick gooey sauce but have taught myself to judge it in this manner.
For the appearance score I take into account how well did the cook use sauce to present his idea of excellent meat. Is it void of smudges, is it covered evenly, is the color appealing, etc. The amount of greenery that comes along for the ride is not a matter for judging either, it's a pain in the ass but is not judged.
Next score is for taste, if all I can taste is sweet thick sauce and it interferes with my ability to taste the meat then your going to lose points.
It's a meat contest, not a sauce contest.
Third score, tenderness, well sauce doesn't really affect that much so I just score as usual.

Maybe all of this is what you meant to share but it didn't come across that way.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Ed

ModelMaker said:

Absolutely do not want to wade into the personal urinating match but there is a point I'd like to make concerning judge scoring. You stated

"Then you get knocked a point by me and several judges that I know for being over sauced. As a judge, I dislike ribs and chicken thighs with an 1/8 inch coat of Blues Hog. Nothing like picking up a rib and bringing half a pound of parsley with it."

There is no rule in KCBS scoring regarding heavy sauce application deserving a reduction in point totals. This is a personal dislike of yours and should never affect your score. I too share your dislike of thick gooey sauce but have taught myself to judge it in this manner.
For the appearance score I take into account how well did the cook use sauce to present his idea of excellent meat. Is it void of smudges, is it covered evenly, is the color appealing, etc. The amount of greenery that comes along for the ride is not a matter for judging either, it's a pain in the ass but is not judged.
Next score is for taste, if all I can taste is sweet thick sauce and it interferes with my ability to taste the meat then your going to lose points.
It's a meat contest, not a sauce contest.
Third score, tenderness, well sauce doesn't really affect that much so I just score as usual.

Maybe all of this is what you meant to share but it didn't come across that way.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Ed

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Ed, I've discussed this ad nauseum. The comment cards used to have an appearance box to check under sauce for too little, and one for too much. Just because the boxes went away, there has been no directive from the board saying not to mark down for too much sauce. This is unlike size, where they state not to take symmetry into account. Secondly, if all I taste is Blues Hog, there goes a point. It should be more points than that, but after talking with fellow judges at contests, they all seem to ding a point for too much sauce. Again, no direction from KCBS...

Just to clear stuff up, I do cut blues hog with kosmos products, but I personally don’t feel it absolutely necessary. I cook a lot to my personal taste. Blues Hog straight still wins, plain and simple. The “staple” products still work, blues hog, head country, cimarron docs sweet rib and Smokin guns hot. BUT, I also like some of the newer products. Kosmos, hardcore Carnivore, big poppa smokers, eat bbq are all products that I use and a trust. You don’t have to make it complicated to win. Cook the flavor you know, but nail texture and tenderness and you’ll do just fine.

John, I will start by saying that it is great to see you here and I hope this helps. There are the staples and there are also some other products that are proven, have won straight out of the bottle and also work great being mixed, thinned etc.

Rubs;
Smokin Guns, Killer Hogs, 3 Eyz, Kosmos Killer B, Eat BBQ Zero to Hero are all proven and readily available, so they must still be in use!!

Sauces;
Swamp Boys is a proven winner for sure, as are Blues Hogs, Head Country, Kosmo's and Killer Hogs just to name a few.

Good luck throwing your hat back in the ring. As the old saying goes,"most things that change seem to stay the same"

johnlewis469 said:

Hey y'all, getting ready to do my first KCBS comp in quite a few years next week. Was wondering what's hitting these days as far competition rubs and sauces. I used to use Plowboys rub, Headcountry and Blues Hog sauce. Is any of that still working? Thanks for any recommendations!

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Yes, those are still being used. Many teams are using Oakridge rubs. Many teams are also using the West Coast Offense products offered by Big Poppa Smokers.

Swamp Boys sauce is also a proven winner.

Great having you here, John! I'm across the river from your restaurant in Mt. Pleasant. Keep up the great work!

PatAttack said:

Great having you here, John! I'm across the river from your restaurant in Mt. Pleasant. Keep up the great work!

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Same

Rockinar said:

John Lewis of famed Franklin/LaBBQ comes on the forum and asks a simple question about a comp sauce. Instead of "Hey! Good to have to here!" it turns into a 5th grade pissing match.

Interesting.

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I can't believe it took 26 posts for someone to acknowledge that John Lewis posted for advice on comp cooking.

John I use exactly what you described and we do ok. I'm sure that combo will work if you hit tenderness and appearance.

Looking forward to coming to Charleston and trying out your product sometime. It's on my bucket list.

John, let’s try this again. I have purchased and tried the following BBQ sauces stand alone in taste tests, and with meat. Cooks always state they need to impress a judge with one bite, so IMO this requires layers of flavors that expand in the mouth. I don’t have any sponsor to bias my opinion, and of course these are my opinions, based on many years of BBQ judging and avid backyard cooking. I am also one of those tasting your food.

Blues Hog – too thick and too strong as stand alone. Good mixed.
Swamp Boys – I really like this, and it can stand alone with pork butt.
Sweet Baby Ray’s – Too sweet for me. Needs to be toned down.
Killer Hog’s – Pretty sweet as well. Good on ribs, but needs a finishing dust for complexity.
Sweet Swine O’ Mine (Original) – I like this on ribs and chicken. I blended it.
Sucklebuster’s Honey BBQ Glaze – Great finisher for ribs.
The Shed – Good on chicken, but it doesn’t wow me.
Head Country – Not impressed stand alone, but does well with Blues Hog.
Salt Lick – pitched it in the trash.
Kosmo’s Competition – I really like this one. I use just a touch on my burnt ends too.
Frog Sauce – Really good, but I don’t think would do well in comps, due to celery seed & heat.
Several store brands not worth mentioning.

Sauces I always keep on hand are Swamp Boys, Killer Hog’s, and Kosmo’s.

The same goes with rubs, doing blind taste tests stand alone, and on meats. I've tried far too many rubs to list here, but several that I think will do well in comps are listed. Again, these are my opinions.

Killer Hogs – I have yet to see a rub that beats this for color on ribs.
Plowboy's Yardbird – Always a favorite on chicken and turkey.
Simply Marvelous Peppered Cow – Great on brisket.
Smokin’ Guns Sweet Heat – Very good all-purpose rub.
Oakridge Black Ops Brisket Rub – Self-explanatory.
Kosmo’s Cow Cover – Good on brisket.
Sucklebuster’s Hoochie Mama – good on chicken and ribs.
Cowtown The Squeal – Often overlooked, but very good on pork.
Squeal Like a Pig – A recipe by Joe Pearce that I make. Great on pork.

I keep all of these on hand for personal use and catering.

You didn't mention injections, but I have used both Butcher's and Kosmo's brisket injections. I give the nod to Kosmo's Reserve Blend, which helped deliver this:



I have used Butcher's Bird Booster, in fact, just yesterday. When I carved into this 20 lb. turkey, juices just poured out. I also have Kosmo's Original Chicken, but have not used it yet.