unofficial catering business

[IamMadMan]

In all honesty, if you operate without incorporating and insuring yourself, you are doomed as a successful business person because you will demonstrate that you are not capable of making sound business decisions.

It's not about the money you are spending, it's about the liabilities you could incur in our litigious society. You are spending a thousand dollars to prevent the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You don't have to cook bad food, but there are people who could claim they got sick from your food and you spend money in legal issues if you don't have insurance. Being incorporated limits your total liability to the assets of the corporation.

 

[teej]

In GA, as long as the event is sponsored by a non-profit or a municipality, anyone can vend food, unlicensed, uninsured, and using whatever equipment they have laying around the house. How does working an event sponsored by a non-profit make the food safer? Say what you will, the regs. are in place to protect B&M restaurants as much as they are the general public.

 

[PorkQPine]

When the buddies at work want you to cook BBQ for them for cost x 2 it is because you are cheaper than a caterer or going to a restaurant to pick up BBQ. Don't kid yourself, it isn't that your bbq is so great, it's because they can get a deal and it is a lot easier than doing it themselves. Hell, I'd let someone cook for me at cost x 2, what a bargain. Either do it for free or don't do it, when you charge you are in business and that's a fact.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

When the buddies at work want you to cook BBQ for them for cost x 2 it is because you are cheaper than a caterer or going to a restaurant to pick up BBQ. Don't kid yourself, it isn't that your bbq is so great, it's because they can get a deal and it is a lot easier than doing it themselves. Hell, I'd let someone cook for me at cost x 2, what a bargain. Either do it for free or don't do it, when you charge you are in business and that's a fact.

His bbq might be that good. :mrgreen:

 

[teej]

When the buddies at work want you to cook BBQ for them for cost x 2 it is because you are cheaper than a caterer or going to a restaurant to pick up BBQ. Don't kid yourself, it isn't that your bbq is so great, it's because they can get a deal and it is a lot easier than doing it themselves. Hell, I'd let someone cook for me at cost x 2, what a bargain. Either do it for free or don't do it, when you charge you are in business and that's a fact.

I think some of the Brethern would disagree with this.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129008

 

[expatpig]

In all honesty, if you operate without incorporating and insuring yourself, you are doomed as a successful business person because you will demonstrate that you are not capable of making sound business decisions.

It's not about the money you are spending, it's about the liabilities you could incur in our litigious society. You are spending a thousand dollars to prevent the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You don't have to cook bad food, but there are people who could claim they got sick from your food and you spend money in legal issues if you don't have insurance. Being incorporated limits your total liability to the assets of the corporation.

Especially in an S type corporation and LLC, corporate officers can be held liable in both a civil and criminal action. If you screw up, you're really not protected. Get liability insurance.

 

[PorkQPine]

I think some of the Brethern would disagree with this.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129008

Anyone can cook BBQ in the backyard and undercut the legitimate caterers but if it is that good then he should at least charge what the competition charges.

 

[Jeffc]

I didn't say someone shouldn't reduce their risk of exposure, I said you can get sued for fa**ing, basically. This conversation started out about someone catering occasionally. A LOT of people said "oh, that's illegal." Well, that's not always true. It's not illegal here. Then the conversation turned to "oh, you can get sued." Yes, you can. For anything. THAT'S my point. If I had a business, sure I would have insurance. I didn't say anything about people in business. The reason I copied your post was that you said you couldn't get sued - or weren't "at risk" - if you cooked three pork butts at your home and someone got sick. I simply disagreed with that part of your answer, and used it in my response. I'm really not sure why you were so insulted by my statement that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I apologize for whatever I said that made you feel that need.

My bad I didn't realize someone suggested serving thier mother bad chicken. Thought this was totally towards me, I am sorry for that. I mentioned high risk folks in an earlier post.

With that said there is a distinct difference in terms of liability. Some one that visits your home and eats assumes the risk of eating your food. However if you eat at an establishment you assume the food is safe. Period. For gosh sakes, common sense! If not I would have had my family sue three times over by now. For anyone to portray you are liable for serving food to family members or a party is smoking crack! You could get wrongfully sued, but no way it will hold water. Now if you have a unsafe home and someone gets hurt that is certainly a different story.
Just sayin

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

My bad I didn't realize someone suggested serving thier mother bad chicken. Thought this was totally towards me, I am sorry for that. I mentioned high risk folks in an earlier post.

With that said there is a distinct difference in terms of liability. Some one that visits your home and eats assumes the risk of eating your food. However if you eat at an establishment you assume the food is safe. Period. For gosh sakes, common sense! If not I would have had my family sue three times over by now. For anyone to portray you are liable for serving food to family members or a party is smoking crack! You could get wrongfully sued, but no way it will hold water. Now if you have a unsafe home and someone gets hurt that is certainly a different story.
Just sayin

Not a problem, Jeff! I was actually talking about "wrongfully sued," now that you mention it. It just happens, and there's not much you can do about it - which ain't right when you have folks that do their best to do things right. I kinda worried about the charity cooks I did, but one would hope that people that support animal shelters, etc, wouldn't be sue-happy! But nothing surprises me when it comes to getting money for nothing any more. Too many people just looking for that chance! :tsk:

 

[chachahut]

My 2¢...

You have far less worry about the lawyers coming to sue for bad Q than you do the tax man coming for his 85%. As far as I know, pretty much every state believes if you're taking money for a service - you are a business. No grey area there. If you are a business - you will pay taxes. That might also mean having to charge tax on the food you're selling (it does in NY). You don't pay taxes - you will get a visit from the tax man.

So - while food safety & liability are certainly things to be concerned with - they are also less likely an issue than getting popped for a massive tax bill because you consider yourself "unofficial". Unfortunately - the government does not view any business as "unofficial" - especially if it can take a cut of your income.

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

My 2¢...

You have far less worry about the lawyers coming to sue for bad Q than you do the tax man coming for his 85%. As far as I know, pretty much every state believes if you're taking money for a service - you are a business. No grey area there. If you are a business - you will pay taxes. That might also mean having to charge tax on the food you're selling (it does in NY). You don't pay taxes - you will get a visit from the tax man.

So - while food safety & liability are certainly things to be concerned with - they are also less likely an issue than getting popped for a massive tax bill because you consider yourself "unofficial". Unfortunately - the government does not view any business as "unofficial" - especially if it can take a cut of your income.

Yes, the government even gives you the opportunity to pay taxes on marijuana/illegal drug sales! Isn't that nice of them!?!?!? :heh:

 

[rockytopsmokies]

Look this is a gray area. If you read how most successful BBQ guys got started, it happened on accident. Yes the world has changed since then and you do have to protect yourself. If you honestly believe in your product and think you can make money off of it, then set up an LLC and insurance. In NC, it initially costs less than $200 bucks to get started. You can always end the business if you decide to. You really have nothing to lose if you think you can sell enough food to cover your expenses. I was in this position for a short bit but the demand was so high I went legit quicker than I thought. Too big of a risk nowadays. I faced criticism from other business owners because I now have to pay taxes, insurance, etc....but I take pride in it. So my encouragement is go for it. Don't risk it. Get you an LLC and insurance....get out there and sell something.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Look this is a gray area. If you read how most successful BBQ guys got started, it happened on accident. Yes the world has changed since then and you do have to protect yourself. If you honestly believe in your product and think you can make money off of it, then set up an LLC and insurance. In NC, it initially costs less than $200 bucks to get started. You can always end the business if you decide to. You really have nothing to lose if you think you can sell enough food to cover your expenses. I was in this position for a short bit but the demand was so high I went legit quicker than I thought. Too big of a risk nowadays. I faced criticism from other business owners because I now have to pay taxes, insurance, etc....but I take pride in it. So my encouragement is go for it. Don't risk it. Get you an LLC and insurance....get out there and sell something.

I agree. Be as legit as you can and get er done...

 

[Ferndalerunner]

Would like to add a question...I just cooked pork for over 500 for a friend's business opening for free, so what liability might I have? Thanks.

 

[rockytopsmokies]

I would think you would both be accountable. But if they aren't sick by now you should be fine. I wouldn't do it again though. Out of 500 people I'm sure there's a crazy one looking for money, especially since the lottery is over

 

[DennyDustin]

Your post is all about unofficial catering businesses. I think unofficial catering business is not good thing as they don't have illegal license. It cannot become more popular.

 

[NS Mike D]

Would like to add a question...I just cooked pork for over 500 for a friend's business opening for free, so what liability might I have? Thanks.

I can't speak of AR law, in NYS, it doesn't matter if you charge a fee or not - you need a DOH permit/license to serve for to the public - and public means people other than your family and friends in your home. Cooking for a business opening, even for free, would be considered serving food to the public. Doing it without proper permits would be used to prove "gross negligence" even before they looked at any mistakes you might have made in preparing and handling the food.


Your liability can be in two forms - fines for illegally cooking for the public if the DOH finds out, and law suits in case you injured people as a result of your cooking. Someone might choke or someone might get food poisoning. If it's the later chances are it won't be an isolated case.



When you cook for a charity, you are covered by DOH exemptions, the charity's permits and their insurance. You would still be liable for your actions, but the likely you would not be "grossly negligent" out of he box, and that the plaintiff's lawyers would be more interested in the insurance policy than your home.

 

[Colorado Brewer]

I'm a rookie to BBQ and have been browsing the forum, I stumbled across this thread and decided to comment. I know a bit about health rules and regs...been an inspector for the past 11 years.

First, as many have mentioned, rules vary quite a bit State to State. You'd be wise to investigate the specifics of your area before you take anyone's advice on what you can and can't do without a license.

As far as "drawing our attention", typically we aren't looking for the occasional caterer, if a friend asks you to do the bbq for a small backyard get-together, even if there is some sort of compensation, I'm usually not interested in bothering you unless it becomes more than a couple times a year thing.

I would however, bring out the big guns for this;

Would like to add a question...I just cooked pork for over 500 for a friend's business opening for free, so what liability might I have? Thanks.

I don't care if it's for free or not, if you served 500 people who neither you or your friend know, without a license, I'm going after you. I feel not only an obligation to the customers who assumed they were being provided food by a reputable business, but also (and usually bigger in my eyes) all the reputable businesses who you just screwed over. I understand how difficult it is to start a legit food business, and I look at it as my duty to help those already in business by throwing the book at those who do events like this illegally.

Typically, the people I shut down receive a monetary fine, $1000-10,000 depending on how severe the case or how blatant their disregard for the rules was. I am "informed" of these most often by other caterers/restaurants, or by unlicensed vendors who are dumb enough to place ads in newspapers, the internet or craig's list. Search "caterer ________ (your city)" in Google, we do, and that's how we find them. I've had unlicensed vendors come into our office parking lot and try to sell out of the back of their cars, genius!

I think in the OP's case, he is right there on the line. Sounds like this is/was a small, PRIVATE event. I would probably advise him if he has aspirations of growing any larger to have a discussion with the HD on what would be required.

I'd be happy to answer any dreaded HD questions, hopefully you all can put up with my rookie BBQ questions,

 

[jasonjax]

This has been a somewhat amusing read for sure.

Just curious, can anyone actually point to a successful lawsuit where a plaintiff proved within a preponderance of the evidence that something they ate caused them to be sick versus oh say the stomach flu etc, and was awarded a cash settlement?

I'm just wondering how much this entire liability discussion from a food-born illness is academic.

P.S. I don't professionally or illicitly cater, don't charge for any of my BBQ, and don't plan to. I do cook very occasionally for Scouts and friends, but again no charge.

 

[jasonjax]

I would however, bring out the big guns for this;



I don't care if it's for free or not, if you served 500 people who neither you or your friend know, without a license, I'm going after you. ,

So if a church with a decent sized congregation asked a member to BBQ for over ~500 and he only knew <500 you'd bring out the big guns?