unofficial catering business

[Jeff Hughes]

It is not too big of a deal to get legit as a private chef in most markets. You cook onsite(no drop offs), that eliminates the need for a commissary and dealing with the HD. Most caterers I know start out this way.

Insurance is the main requirement.

 

[Bbq Bubba]

It is not too big of a deal to get legit as a private chef in most markets. You cook onsite(no drop offs), that eliminates the need for a commissary and dealing with the HD. Most caterers I know start out this way.

Insurance is the main requirement.

I agree. Nothing to hide, i was insured but didnt need any "certification" to be a caterer.
If you know basic food safety, cook on-site and can make money, your legal. :thumb:

 

[Bearbonez]

In Navajo county, AZ I had insurance and got my temp food permit as needed. Requirements were very loose, but I did what I needed to, to cover my backside. I am now starting up a food trailer business and aside from preliminary steps for the business plan and thinking things through for several years, my first stop was the health dept and fire marshal. I see people selling food out of the back of a pickup with a camper and an unplugged oven for a holding box, year round...I think to myself...would be easy to do the same thing and I also think that it would be just as easy to poison a lot of people using the same method. It makes more sense for myself to just do everything up to par and utilize the chamber of commerce and be a contributing member of the business community. Aside from doing my part in being resposible, I believe it will be to my advantage to be recognized as running a reputable business in order to grow and will contribute to marketing a product line and moving into a brick and mortar joint in following years. I am only speaking for myself, but that's how I see it.

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

I'm not sure why everyone is so afraid of poisoning people? I'm not going to cook one iota safer if I'm licensed or not. By the same token, if you're a nasty or unsanitary person it's not going to matter how many licenses you have; you're going to serve nasty food. I don't plan on selling a single thing unlawfully, but I've served many, many people to help several charities. What's stopping one of them from suing me if they get sick? Being "legal" also doesn't make you immune to a lawsuit. Innocent people get sued every day. I just don't understand the obsession with making people sick, unless you're actually doing something unsanitary which I have never done. And I was a "legal" caterer at one time, so I know what's expected by the health department. I'm sorry, I just "ain't skeered," guys.

 

[Big A]

I'm not sure why everyone is so afraid of poisoning people? I'm not going to cook one iota safer if I'm licensed or not. By the same token, if you're a nasty or unsanitary person it's not going to matter how many licenses you have; you're going to serve nasty food. I don't plan on selling a single thing unlawfully, but I've served many, many people to help several charities. What's stopping one of them from suing me if they get sick? Being "legal" also doesn't make you immune to a lawsuit. Innocent people get sued every day. I just don't understand the obsession with making people sick, unless you're actually doing something unsanitary which I have never done. And I was a "legal" caterer at one time, so I know what's expected by the health department. I'm sorry, I just "ain't skeered," guys.

Well said.

 

[thinbluebbq]

So here is my two cents. Not as a BBQ competitor, but from my day job where I am looking at people who deal with huge liability exposures for a wide range of reasons.

Whether or not you are risking tax evasion, Health Dept. fines, etc. the biggest risk is the liability exposure to you for not having insurance. It has been said before on this thread, but even one person feeling sick can bankrupt you permanently because you aren't organized as a formal business entity to put the liability on the entity instead of you.

Even occasionally, it is the risk you run. I wouldn't do anything uninsured and I honestly wouldn't be looking for ways to accept gift cards instead of cash. The tax man only cares if you were compensated for your time in some form. If so then you owe.

Whatever any decides to do, just remember that everyone loves your BBQ and is your best friend until they get sick. Then it matters not. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Hozman]

With all that said then we should all have insurance for our next neighborhood get together if someone is going to eat a hamburger I cooked? That make no sense at all to me. I understand the need to have insurance to cover the liabilities if you are constantly seeking business. If a friend asks you if you have enough room on your smoker for an extra butt do you say no in case he gets sick?

I cook my friends food the same way I cook my food. I am not trying to get his family or mine sick. Could it happen sure but I see if it did that the circumstances are different from hey bud can you cook this vs. look me up in the phone book cause I am running a business.

 

[thinbluebbq]

My point was that there is no difference between the two. If you formalize a catering business and make an LLC or a corporation, then the liability could shift from the individual (You) to the business entity.

The issue is that the "hey bud can you cook this for me guy" is you bud until he gets sick and then all bets are off. Insurance is what protects you from the liability of getting someone sick. You are free to do as you wish man and I am not into the whole "it's not fair cause I did it right" deal. I am just saying that you definitely run a risk.

Your original post talked about how you've been cooking for folks here and there and at church for free, but you are getting more and more people asking you to do it. It's the friend who says, "hey dude can you smoke me two turkeys this year?" and then gives one to a buddy, etc. The friend of the friend doesn't care about you if he gets sick and in all honesty I have seen people who were actual friends forget all about that friendship when they got sick.

So do as you wish, but if you want the honest opinion of people to your original question then consider all people say even if it isn't the answer you may be seeking. Doing it right or not doing it may save you from a big issue. Indiana had a big issue last summer at a small county fair where a vendor got a lot of people sick and the health departments across the state were really cracking down because it was a bad deal.

 

[Jeffc]

but would you have me believe that every person who ever started out in the biz went all out and completely licensed, permitted, inspected, certified and all for THOUSANDS of bucks before they ever sold their first pulled pork sandwich?

Can't speak for "everyone" but I am. And it isn't thousands it's tens and tens and tens of thousands. And I still haven't sold my first darn sandwich! But I made a decision to open a BBQ catering and vending business, no different than any other biz. You invest, reduce your risk exposure to protect your investment. The rest is upto running a profitable business.

Get a high risk person sick, someone's kid or grandma, and see how strong the friendship is. Just a risk I am not willing to take.

On a different note, Miron Mixon told me once if you really want to know how good your Que is start charging for it! But I digress
Cheers and good luck whatever you choose!

 

[Wampus]

OK, so just to clarify.....

If a guy cooks a pork butt and sells it to someone, he's at risk.
If the same guy cooks 3 pork butts and has a party and people come and eat, is he still at risk?
What about if he cooks PP & sells sammies where all proceeds go to a church? Since he cooked it, risk or is the church at risk?



Seriously....just asking for clarification.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

OK, so just to clarify.....

*If a guy cooks a pork butt and sells it to someone, he's at risk.

**If the same guy cooks 3 pork butts and has a party and people come and eat, is he still at risk?

***What about if he cooks PP & sells sammies where all proceeds go to a church? Since he cooked it, risk or is the church at risk?



Seriously....just asking for clarification.

*Yes

**No

***Yes, he and/or the church is at risk. More than likely the church would be at risk. If "he" is cooking as if he is representing THE CHURCH.

When services or goods are exchanged for money most municipalities/taxing agencies consider that as "doing business"/"in business". You do have exceptions and caveats from state to state.

 

[thinbluebbq]

He is at risk either way. If your mother comes over for dinner and you serve her undercooked chicken you could be at risk of a lawsuit.

If you cook for a church, you as the cook and the church could be liable. You could be liable for preparing the food incorrectly and not being sufficiently licensed or certified (i.e. Servsafe) to prepare the food. The church could be liable for not verifying that you were licensed or certified or negligent for knowing you weren't and selling the food.

And the having people over for a party analogy is bunk. You are at risk when anyone is at your home. If you own your home or have renters insurance, you have a policy limit in that coverage to protect you for injuries to others in case a neighbor comes over for a BBQ and falls off your deck and breaks their leg. Or a kid slips on the icy sidewalk out front of your house after a snow storm.

The church reference brings up a good point that many people have tried to use as a tool before. Some states have food safety or vending exemptions for non-profit organizations that do not require them to obtain temporary food permits. This does NOT apply to someone who cooks food on behalf of an organization. For example, if you are a regular attending member of a church and you volunteer to cook a church dinner in their kitchen, etc then you may be covered under that exemption if your particular area does have an exemption. But you cannot cook food off premises or for a church you have no affiliation with and circumvent the rules.

The contest we organize in Franklin is run by a non-profit organization and the county health department in our county requires us to pay $30 per team that participates in the People's Choice competition to obtain a temporary health permit because even though the event is run by the non-profit, all proceeds go to the non-profit, the food is cooked by people not in the non-profit so the exemption doesn't apply.

I'm not saying that's how it is everywhere, but spending hours and hours trying to find a loophole isn't the right way to go about it. Doing it the right way protects you and promotes a professional image to your patrons. In this day and age where everyone sues everyone anyway, it is even more important to be insured and formally organized to protect your own behind.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I agree with everything you're saying but I think Wampus' context of "risk" was would he be at "risk" of being sued for not having business license, permits, etc. Or I think that's where he was coming from with it.

But you're right. Anyone at your home you are at risk of them suing you if they fall, get sick, whatever. :shock:

He is at risk either way. If your mother comes over for dinner and you serve her undercooked chicken you could be at risk of a lawsuit.

If you cook for a church, you as the cook and the church could be liable. You could be liable for preparing the food incorrectly and not being sufficiently licensed or certified (i.e. Servsafe) to prepare the food. The church could be liable for not verifying that you were licensed or certified or negligent for knowing you weren't and selling the food.

And the having people over for a party analogy is bunk. You are at risk when anyone is at your home. If you own your home or have renters insurance, you have a policy limit in that coverage to protect you for injuries to others in case a neighbor comes over for a BBQ and falls off your deck and breaks their leg. Or a kid slips on the icy sidewalk out front of your house after a snow storm.

The church reference brings up a good point that many people have tried to use as a tool before. Some states have food safety or vending exemptions for non-profit organizations that do not require them to obtain temporary food permits. This does NOT apply to someone who cooks food on behalf of an organization. For example, if you are a regular attending member of a church and you volunteer to cook a church dinner in their kitchen, etc then you may be covered under that exemption if your particular area does have an exemption. But you cannot cook food off premises or for a church you have no affiliation with and circumvent the rules.

The contest we organize in Franklin is run by a non-profit organization and the county health department in our county requires us to pay $30 per team that participates in the People's Choice competition to obtain a temporary health permit because even though the event is run by the non-profit, all proceeds go to the non-profit, the food is cooked by people not in the non-profit so the exemption doesn't apply.

I'm not saying that's how it is everywhere, but spending hours and hours trying to find a loophole isn't the right way to go about it. Doing it the right way protects you and promotes a professional image to your patrons. In this day and age where everyone sues everyone anyway, it is even more important to be insured and formally organized to protect your own behind.

 

[Jeffc]

OK, so just to clarify.....

If a guy cooks a pork butt and sells it to someone, he's at risk.
If the same guy cooks 3 pork butts and has a party and people come and eat, is he still at risk?
What about if he cooks PP & sells sammies where all proceeds go to a church? Since he cooked it, risk or is the church at risk?



Seriously....just asking for clarification.

Yep
Nope
I would say the church unless there is a held harmless agreement. Assuming food was made on the premises.

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

Yep
Nope
I would say the church unless there is a held harmless agreement. Assuming food was made on the premises.

As I said previously, you can be sued - or are at risk, as some of you are saying - no matter what the circumstances. So no one should have a party, have anyone in their yard, feed their Mother chicken, cook for a charity - ANYTHING! Folks, everything in life is a "risk." If you don't want to risk being sued, you better not get out of bed tomorrow. :tsk:

 

[Jeffc]

As I said previously, you can be sued - or are at risk, as some of you are saying - no matter what the circumstances. So no one should have a party, have anyone in their yard, feed their Mother chicken, cook for a charity - ANYTHING! Folks, everything in life is a "risk." If you don't want to risk being sued, you better not get out of bed tomorrow. :tsk:

Really? What was I thinking wanting to reduce my risk exposure...after all these years in business I should have never spent all that cash protecting my interests and just rolled the dice. Could of saved a bundle opening up this BBQ business too thanks for shedding the light!

 

[thinbluebbq]

I'm sleeping in tomorrow then. :clap2:

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

Really? What was I thinking wanting to reduce my risk exposure...after all these years in business I should have never spent all that cash protecting my interests and just rolled the dice. Could of saved a bundle opening up this BBQ business too thanks for shedding the light!

I didn't say someone shouldn't reduce their risk of exposure, I said you can get sued for fa**ing, basically. This conversation started out about someone catering occasionally. A LOT of people said "oh, that's illegal." Well, that's not always true. It's not illegal here. Then the conversation turned to "oh, you can get sued." Yes, you can. For anything. THAT'S my point. If I had a business, sure I would have insurance. I didn't say anything about people in business. The reason I copied your post was that you said you couldn't get sued - or weren't "at risk" - if you cooked three pork butts at your home and someone got sick. I simply disagreed with that part of your answer, and used it in my response. I'm really not sure why you were so insulted by my statement that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I apologize for whatever I said that made you feel that need.

 

[IamMadMan]

So here is my two cents. Not as a BBQ competitor, but from my day job where I am looking at people who deal with huge liability exposures for a wide range of reasons.

Whether or not you are risking tax evasion, Health Dept. fines, etc. the biggest risk is the liability exposure to you for not having insurance. It has been said before on this thread, but even one person feeling sick can bankrupt you permanently because you aren't organized as a formal business entity to put the liability on the entity instead of you.

Even occasionally, it is the risk you run. I wouldn't do anything uninsured and I honestly wouldn't be looking for ways to accept gift cards instead of cash. The tax man only cares if you were compensated for your time in some form. If so then you owe.

Whatever any decides to do, just remember that everyone loves your BBQ and is your best friend until they get sick. Then it matters not. Just my humble opinion.

thinbluebbq & wearcd - Well put in all aspects...

Incorporate and Insurance the only way to save your home and your possessions!!!!!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

LOL! It's always no big deal 'til something goes wrong. Carry on.