Roll Call. Inside 30 days. Tom's Farm Wild West Showdown December 31st 2010 - January 1st 2011, Corona, CA

Countryhb said:
Wow! Just left me out of the equation, huh? Guess I don't count anymore :mad2:
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Total purse for one contest is $5,000. If there are 50 teams and all of them paid $250 for one event, that's $12,500 in entries collected.

VisionQuest220 said:
California ToY Events in 2010 (Year to Date)

Event City...Entry Fee - Payout - # of Teams
Hesperia........$175 - $3,300 - 30 Teams
Indio.............$??? - $5,000 - 27 Teams
Morgan Hill.....$225/275 - $4,900 - 52 Teams
Bakersfield.....$200/250 - $4,750 - 54 Teams
Penn Valley....$200/225 - $3,500 - 32 Teams
Costa Mesa....$300 - $7,000 - 57 Teams
Santa Maria....$200 - $3,400 - 24 Teams
Stockton........$240/285 - $5,000 - 40 Teams
Vista.............$275/325 - $4,500 - 45 Teams
Valley Center...$250/350 - $10,000 - 29 Teams
Lakeport.........$225/275 - $7,600 - 34 Teams
Cameron Park...$225/275 - $3,250 - 22 Teams
Placerville........$250/275 - $3,500 - 31 Teams
Lancaster........$275 - $5,560 - 30 Teams
Campo............$250 - $5,000 - 25 Teams
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That Valley Center contest stands out... same entry fee, twice the purse and almost half the teams.
 
Most of these are fundraisers for charities
Title sponsors are very difficult to find
The sport has grown out here much faster than
the support dollars . Remember just a few years ago
There were only a handful of events in the West
 
Ya wish the prize money would be a little higher and just drop all the extra stuff going on. You better bring your A game to break even
 
rooftop bbq said:
Ya wish the prize money would be a little higher and just drop all the extra stuff going on. You better bring your A game to break even
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A multi-day contest over New Year's Eve...who the hell is planning on breaking even? I just hope I don't break my liver.
 
ThomEmery said:
Most of these are fundraisers for charities
Title sponsors are very difficult to find
The sport has grown out here much faster than
the support dollars . Remember just a few years ago
There were only a handful of events in the West
Click to expand...


Of the 15 events listed above, only 2 (Bakersfield and Costa Mesa) were organized by charitable entities. That is not to say that the other events were devoid of charitable activities. Quite the contrary. People's Choice money is often directed to a charitable cause and many events are run in conjunction with a charitable cause but are not directly tied to it. Charity has long been a part of competition barbeque across the country so to use it as the reason for why prize money has decreased while team participation has risen is ridiculous.

The truth is that in 2009 and years prior there were a number of contests in California with substantial prize funds, like Clovis ($9,375), Lakeport ($9,500), Indio ($36,000 for 3 events) and Alpine ($23,000).

A much more plausible reason for the diminishing prize funds is that organizers and promoters have realized that the rapidly growing popularity of competition barbeque has temporarily diminished the attention paid to the economics of competing due to the large influx of new teams who have not yet had the opportunity to learn just how expensive a proposition competition barbeque really is. Instead of relying on sponsors to cover the bulk of the cost of contest overhead, entry fee money is being used to cover those expenses as well as create a prize fund.
 
big brother smoke said:
Funds also going towards mystery meat, appetizers, desserts, etc....:rolleyes:
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rooftop bbq said:
Ya wish the prize money would be a little higher and just drop all the extra stuff going on. You better bring your A game to break even
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with you both. For years here in Arizona we have had to deal with money from the main prize fund being diverted to a Best Booth contest that paid exactly the same as the four meat categories.

I have no problem with ancillary categories being included at contests but there should be an additional fee charged to those who wish to participate and that money should be used to fund the category. Either that or promoters should find a sponsor to cover the specific cost of the ancillary categories and leave the main prize fund for the 4 meats.
 
VisionQuest220 said:
I absolutely agree with you both. For years here in Arizona we have had to deal with money from the main prize fund being diverted to a Best Booth contest that paid exactly the same as the four meat categories.

I have no problem with ancillary categories being included at contests but there should be an additional fee charged to those who wish to participate and that money should be used to fund the category. Either that or promoters should find a sponsor to cover the specific cost of the ancillary categories and leave the main prize fund for the 4 meats.
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Couldn't agree with you more.:thumb:
 
VisionQuest220 said:
Of the 15 events listed above, only 2 (Bakersfield and Costa Mesa) were organized by charitable entities. That is not to say that the other events were devoid of charitable activities. Quite the contrary. People's Choice money is often directed to a charitable cause and many events are run in conjunction with a charitable cause but are not directly tied to it. Charity has long been a part of competition barbeque across the country so to use it as the reason for why prize money has decreased while team participation has risen is ridiculous.

The truth is that in 2009 and years prior there were a number of contests in California with substantial prize funds, like Clovis ($9,375), Lakeport ($9,500), Indio ($36,000 for 3 events) and Alpine ($23,000).

A much more plausible reason for the diminishing prize funds is that organizers and promoters have realized that the rapidly growing popularity of competition barbeque has temporarily diminished the attention paid to the economics of competing due to the large influx of new teams who have not yet had the opportunity to learn just how expensive a proposition competition barbeque really is. Instead of relying on sponsors to cover the bulk of the cost of contest overhead, entry fee money is being used to cover those expenses as well as create a prize fund.
Click to expand...

If that's what's being done, that's totally WRONG on the part of organizers! As an organizer myself, I charge extra to cover prize money for people's choice and dessert. Every dime the teams pay in for entry fees goes back to them except for the sanctioning fees to KCBS. We actually go out and get sponsors and have other events to make the money to send to the charities we support. Not doing so is, in my opinion, a sign of a lazy organizing committee.
 
VisionQuest220 said:
Of the 15 events listed above, only 2 (Bakersfield and Costa Mesa) were organized by charitable entities. That is not to say that the other events were devoid of charitable activities. Quite the contrary. People's Choice money is often directed to a charitable cause and many events are run in conjunction with a charitable cause but are not directly tied to it. Charity has long been a part of competition barbeque across the country so to use it as the reason for why prize money has decreased while team participation has risen is ridiculous.

The truth is that in 2009 and years prior there were a number of contests in California with substantial prize funds, like Clovis ($9,375), Lakeport ($9,500), Indio ($36,000 for 3 events) and Alpine ($23,000).

A much more plausible reason for the diminishing prize funds is that organizers and promoters have realized that the rapidly growing popularity of competition barbeque has temporarily diminished the attention paid to the economics of competing due to the large influx of new teams who have not yet had the opportunity to learn just how expensive a proposition competition barbeque really is. Instead of relying on sponsors to cover the bulk of the cost of contest overhead, entry fee money is being used to cover those expenses as well as create a prize fund.
Click to expand...

The examples sited are for the most part gone or radically changed to survive

The events above were fundraisers for a chamber of commerce
or some other group
 
ThomEmery said:
The examples sited are for the most part gone or radically changed to survive
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Clovis - This contest was suspended for 2010 by the organizers, Brent & Kim Walton, in order to find a date in which they could partner their contest with another event so as to share infrastructure costs, etc. Brent and I have discussed the recent disparity between prize funds and collected entry fees and he feels, as do I, that the majority, if not 100%, of collected entry fees should be returned to the teams via the prize fund. It was their decision to suspend the event rather than use entry fees to pay for overhead.

Alpine - This contest was, unfortunately, a victim of its own success. This event was organized and sponsored by the Viejas Band of Kumeyaay Indians and was held at their venue, a casino and large outlet shopping mall. In the 5 year history of their event, the tribe steadily increased the contest prize fund making it the highest paying single competition held annually in California. The contest drew record crowds in 2009 and the People's Choice aspect of the event raised significant dollars for the tribal charity. Those record crowds, however, did not ultimately translate into increased sales for the outlets and action for the casino so the decision was made to cancel the event.

Lakeport - Another tribal casino event, Lakeport, reduced the contest prize fund, in spite of success of the 2009 event, from $9,500 in 2009 to $7,600 in 2010 even though the team count at the contest doubled from 18 in 2009 to 36 in 2010.


ThomEmery said:
The events above were fundraisers for a chamber of commerce or some other group
Click to expand...
A significant difference from your previous comment above that "most of these are fundraisers for charities". I'm quite certain that it is the goal of every contest to raise money for something, even if that "something" is simply profit for the investors. It is something else again, when teams end up being the majority source of those funds raised. I would like to point out that the organizers of the Bakersfield contest, one of the two listed events that was actually a charity event, were at least thoughtful enough to issue receipts to the teams so that their entry fees could be listed as a donation to the charity.

In the words of a man much wiser than me, "there isn't an opportunity to raise any money without the barbeque teams being there in the first place".
 
VisionQuest220 said:
Clovis - This contest was suspended for 2010 by the organizers, Brent & Kim Walton, in order to find a date in which they could partner their contest with another event so as to share infrastructure costs, etc. Brent and I have discussed the recent disparity between prize funds and collected entry fees and he feels, as do I, that the majority, if not 100%, of collected entry fees should be returned to the teams via the prize fund. It was their decision to suspend the event rather than use entry fees to pay for overhead.

Alpine - This contest was, unfortunately, a victim of its own success. This event was organized and sponsored by the Viejas Band of Kumeyaay Indians and was held at their venue, a casino and large outlet shopping mall. In the 5 year history of their event, the tribe steadily increased the contest prize fund making it the highest paying single competition held annually in California. The contest drew record crowds in 2009 and the People's Choice aspect of the event raised significant dollars for the tribal charity. Those record crowds, however, did not ultimately translate into increased sales for the outlets and action for the casino so the decision was made to cancel the event.

Lakeport - Another tribal casino event, Lakeport, reduced the contest prize fund, in spite of success of the 2009 event, from $9,500 in 2009 to $7,600 in 2010 even though the team count at the contest doubled from 18 in 2009 to 36 in 2010.


A significant difference from your previous comment above that "most of these are fundraisers for charities". I'm quite certain that it is the goal of every contest to raise money for something, even if that "something" is simply profit for the investors. It is something else again, when teams end up being the majority source of those funds raised. I would like to point out that the organizers of the Bakersfield contest, one of the two listed events that was actually a charity event, were at least thoughtful enough to issue receipts to the teams so that their entry fees could be listed as a donation to the charity.

In the words of a man much wiser than me, "there isn't an opportunity to raise any money without the barbeque teams being there in the first place".
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Hey I am all for having larger Prize pools... But teams want electricity - for 60 teams thats $5,500, they want nice trophies $2,000, Judges need a tent $1,000, The events need music $1,000-$3,000 with stage and everything, then we need printed materials, advertising, PERMITS (around $4,000) and security --just add $10,000.. So I am giving away $10,000, yes you may say the 1st event at $250-$285 is on line with most California events.. maybe a bit high.. But for those of you entered into the 2 event -MOST- you are only paying $150 for the 2nd event.. quite a bargain price.. As it stands right now -even at 60 teams (which all you know = extra $$ in the pot) I will be looking at a loss of $4,000 dollars-- Before the event starts-- and only $5 at the gate entry fee to recoup and hopefully make a little to keep me doing events in the future--lets say we make $10,000 in gate receips -- I make $6,000 for 5-6 months of work-- not exactly fair is it? Remember PC 50/50 split goes to cooks and Rotary Club of Wildomar -- I make zero... Beer and Wine Garden is a fundraiser for Wildomar Chamber I make zero, and the VIP dinner all goes to Wildomar parks.. At the moment I have BevMo (donating Beer and Wine-- No $$$) and Holiday Inn Express (giving me a room for Kelly And Kathleen McIntosh but no $$) truth is -- Sponsor $$$ has dryed up and everything I am doing is out of pocket... AND I took a HUGE risk in putting this on, lucky for me, we have gotten tremendous results, but just the same we could have 20 teams and a loss of $20,000 if not for all your support...

Many of you know I loss my ass in Mexico to the tune of $60,000, $30,000 me and $30,000 my sister, yet I didn't complain I kept going.. Golden Acorn made a few bucks - enough for me to do it again next year (because the Casino paid for most of the stuff listed above), and they said they'll trow in $2500 to $5000 more this time around-- so look for Golden Acorn to go from $5,000 to $7500 0r even $10,000... Then there is Wildomar - which I do for FREE because 100% of the $$ goes to Rotary and for an early bird of $295 you get a chance at $12,000 purse come March.. So I do agree prize $$ needs to go up, but also see my points, and remember I am doing 1st time events, starting at no less than $5,000 on which I take 100% of the risk, if they work out, we do them again -- and guess what the prize $$ goes up... My event in Mexico $20,000 entry fee $300.. Only 15 teams showed up-- That event will never happen again..

In conclusion, and defending why my payout is what it is, try putting one of these events yourself (even if its just fictitious) look at your costs, look at your entry fees, look at your time involvement.. Look at your charitable contributions, and then look at your bottom line.. and then ask if I am crazy for taking such economic risks-- because the rewards are not there unless you hit a HR in attendance 10,000 plus.. if I do, guess what happens next year? That's right the Prize $$ goes up... If I loose my ass there is no more contest next year... That is the fine line I must walk, I am not a multi-millionaire, who can afford to have too many looses, I need to control what I can afford to loose, and build my contest from there-- if successful in its 1st year, we do it again next year, if not - it's one and done!

Ultimately is your choice wether to compete or not, entry fees will always be part of a tourney- But for those of you that know me, If I was to pick up $50,000-$80,000 in sponsor fees for an event I would charge a $1 entry fee, the cooks is not where I want to make my money, it never has been.. but in order to put an event on I need some sort of contributuion from you guys-- as contest grow from yr to yr, more $$ opportunities come and therefore Prize $$ grows accordingly.. But I know, from experience, that trowing out more than $5,000 on a 1st year event is fiscally irresponsible.. Hope this shed's some light from my Promoter perspective..
 
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