The quest for a better pizza dough

[JazzyBadger]

Here's the one thing I do that I'm pretty sure isn't helping my situation, but I can't figure out how else to pull it off.

When I make my pizzas, I roll the dough on the counter to get it big enough. I usually try and get a 12" diameter pie out of 1/6th of this recipe. I've tried to hand form the dough, but can usually only manage to get about an 8" dia pie. I've even tried to figure out how to toss the dough and/or work it, holding it by the edge, pulling it with each hand laterally and letting the dough stretch down below my hands and turning it around and around. None of these 3 techniques seem to work without tearing a hole into the dough from getting it too thin or just not being able to work it evenly.

I make a lot of pizza and use a similar recipe with the following changes:
Use 2 cups of Seminola Flour and then 5 cups of Regular or Bread Flour (this will produce a stretchier dough, great for hand tossing)
for the liquid, subistute 1 cup of white wine to the water.

The Seminola Flour is for pasta, and holds up well to the stretching and may help you hand form a better pie[/QUOTE]

Look up knuckle method pizza stretching technique on YouTube, and you'll find some really good visuals to help you stretch it out. Like all things it will take some practice, but it gets ridiculously easy to do. The other thing you need to do while stretching it out by hand is lay it down and allow the gluten to rest. If you try to stretch it out too far too quickly you'll either end up with a pie that gets torn, or you'll get it to the size you want and it will snap back like a rubber band.

 

[buccaneer]

I thought you had seen this.
It's the best I've done.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155967&highlight=pizza+dough

 

[SauceHitter]

Lose the oil from the dough forming process. Fat 'shortens' the gluten strands resulting in finer/softer crumb rather than the light and slightly chewy texture you are looking for. You can coat the dough balls with oil during the rise or brush some on the stretched dough prior to adding toppings to retain the olive oil flavor.

 

[Kenny Rogers]

Honestly, I've made fresh pizza dough only a couple of times and it turned out so sticky I couldn't get it on the pizza stone… but these recipes give me hope! And inspiration! To try again! Thank you!

 

[Haastyle]

There is a ton of info on this site. Click on the forums tab on the left.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/

Thank you for this. I wasn't looking for a pizza forum but now that I looked at that I'm saving it.

 

[Haastyle]

I believe your probelm is you are using AP flour. Use bread flour to get the dough you are talking about.. I have two friends that own different pizza joints and they both told me they only use bread flour. The glutens form much better so you can stretch it, and the dough rises much better. Hope this helps.

 

[aquablue22]

Here's one I found on the internet and have been using a lot lately, it works great for both thin and thick pies. It's very silky and easy to roll out.

Ingredients
Dough
• 3 cups (16 1/2 ounces) bread flour, plus more for work surface
• 2 teaspoons sugar
• ½ teaspoon instant or rapid-rise yeast
• 1 1/3cups ICE water (about 10 1/2 ounces)
• 1 tablespoon vegetable oil, plus more for work surface
• 1 ½ teaspoons table salt
Instructions
• FOR THE DOUGH: In food processor fitted with metal blade, process flour, sugar, and yeast until combined, about 2 seconds. With machine running, slowly add water through feed tube; process until dough is just combined and no dry flour remains, about 10 seconds. Let dough stand 10 minutes.
• Add oil and salt to dough and process until dough forms satiny, sticky ball that clears sides of workbowl, 30 to 60 seconds. Remove dough from bowl and knead briefly on lightly oiled countertop until smooth, about 1 minute. Shape dough into tight ball and place in large, lightly oiled bowl. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and refrigerate for at least 24 hours and up to 3 days.

 

[57borntorun]

Lose the oil from the dough forming process. Fat 'shortens' the gluten strands resulting in finer/softer crumb rather than the light and slightly chewy texture you are looking for. You can coat the dough balls with oil during the rise or brush some on the stretched dough prior to adding toppings to retain the olive oil flavor.

This is also the reason not to add oil to your fresh pasta recipes.

 

[MilitantSquatter]

just like BBQ, pizza has all sorts of opinions and no answer is solely correct. A lot of good info above but when you start mixing and matching, it makes things worse.

Consider not rolling your dough.... that's one way (of several to loose puffiness).

Also, for the crispiness, since your in an oven... try Baking Steel

http://bakingsteel.com/

 

[landarc]

I use high hydration doughs, up to 85% when I mix. You have to knead them, adding just enough flour during that process to get them to a place where they are no longer sticky. Kneading, in this case, aids in creating a smooth silky dough. Then you have to leave them rest, for a couple of hours.

I am also a big believer in autolysis, although, that is not necessary.

 

[Soulcoffr]

Peter Reinhart

Peter Reinhart has some books that you might want to look at. All his recipes give bakers percentages. He's pretty well known in bread baking circles, but he's also done a lot of study on pizza. His book is called American Pie. If you do a search, his name will pop up a lot.

 

[CharredApron]

There are so many styles of pizza doughs out there and I prefer the Napoletano style. High hydration, 00 caputo flour, water, salt, and yeast. Keep it simple. The 00 flour is ideal for high temperatures. Do NOT add the salt to your flour as it will retard the yeast. The salt should be added in the last minutes of mixing. The complete guide lines from the VPN Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana can be found here.

http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare 2008 UK.pdf

K.I.S.S. Hard to teach simplicity. Note the ingredients, no oil, butter, sugar, seasoning, etc. I like this dough cold proofed for at least 2 days for maximum flavor.
Good Luck

 

[Moose]

Sounds like your dough is too dry, and others have suggested, a higher hydration will yield a dough that is easier to work with.

I can't emphasize enough how important hand stretching is; rolling your dough completely changes the character of the crust, meaning it will be much more dense.

I did a tutorial a while back on how to make pizza using store bought dough, and in this post there's a great video on how to hand stretch dough. I watched this video about ten times before I tried it myself, and my first hand stretched pie came out a perfect round, much to my amazement. It's really easy as long as your dough is hydrated enough.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102712

I cook on a round granite stone cut from granite scrap, and heat the oven to 500 degrees. The pizza goes in when the stone reaches a surface temp of 500 using an infrared thermo.

Also, I find that semolina flour is much finer than cornmeal and won't change the texture of the bottom of the crust like cornmeal does, so I liberally dust my peel with that, and the pie slides off very easily.

Anyway, hope this helps, and please keep us posted on your progress!

 

[superlazy]

I have 2 dough balls on the counter now. 1st is a quick rise thin crust that kinda of failed from 3days ago. The 2nd is almost the same but increased the hydration..

Reason I mention this is because last ball I made in this experiment I used the left over 2 days later for a hand tossed type for lunch and it was darn good. Ill let ya know how it is.

Here is my sauce recipe for everbody

1 12oz can 6 in 1 tomato's
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp onion
1/2 tsp garlic
1 tsp thyme
1/2 tsp basil
3/4 tsp oregano
1 1/4 tsp marjoram
1 1/2 tsp fennel seed ( crush really fine!!)
1/2 tsp ita. seasoning
Dash of olive oil
Make sure to crush all the herbs before adding.
All measurements are heaping

Try it as is. Needless so say all ingredients can be adjusted or taste also remember the flavor changes after it bakes :mrgreen:

 

[J-Rod]

I make a lot of bread, and my guess is that there are a few things you can do that will help. First of all, you're probably not kneading long enough to make the dough stretchy, which you want for pizza. If you are kneading by hand you probably need more like 10 minutes. In a kitchen aid mixer it would be faster but probably still something like 4 minutes. You should feel the dough get more stretchy and springy as you knead it.

When you're trying to stretch it out for pizzas be careful not to overwork it, and let it rest a bit if you need to. As the dough rests it relaxes, and when you handle it it will get tighter. That's why you stretch it to 12 inches it goes back to 8. When it does that, put it down for a few minutes and work on another piece.

I find it works better to hold the dough up in the air, rotate it around and around, and keep stretching it a little as it goes around. Gravity does most of the work and you just need to keep it moving and stretch it a bit. Having it more kneaded will help that to work better.

There is good info and recipes on the King Arthur Flour web site.

Also I agree with the person who said that using bread flour will probably help.

+1 on using bread flour, and not over working it. Too much messing with the dough and the air pockets formed by the yeast will collapse causing a very dense dough.

I also find it helps me very much to make the dough at least a day in advance to making my pies. This allows the glutens to relax and I don't have to fight the dough when trying to stretch it into shape. It's a lot easier to work with being less springy, and you won't have to over work it to get it where you want it.

 

[boogiesnap]

ah, the pizza dough quest....can't count the hours i've spent.

IMHO, you're mixing and matching techniques/ingredients.

if you're rolling the dough, use AP flour. it will be more tender due to less gluten.

if you're hand tossing, or stretching(if you can toss it, it's likely it will be a tough dough), use a high protein flour.

i think autolisys is VERY important. that is where the liquids absorb into the flour, gently, resulting in a more complex tasting and stronger dough.

i also think compressed yeast is far better than ADY or IDY. it gives a better more sustained rise and superior flavor. the dry yeasts seem just too hot to trot.

basically, i'd focus on a specific TYPE of dough and work it a few week-ends.

as a jumping point, and after EXTENSIVE trials, i'd suggest on youtube brunos pizza dough....i add an autolsys, and a cold rise, plus some seasonings, for NY hand tossed.

for rolled dough, serious eats bar pie. i add the same seasonings, compressed yeast. and the autolosys.

 

[DeepElemCue]

Bread flour for sure!

 

[bbqgeekess]

Sourdough Crust using homemade sourdough starter and 2 pizza stones: one the pizza sits on and one sitting above it on rack just above pizza. Try to bake at 550F+.

For the sourdough crust ingredients: water, flour, salt--that's it! No need to add other ingredients since the long ferment of sourdough imparts some nice flour and hint of tanginess. Makes for a nice chewy texture as well compared to quick yeast.

 

[MI Smoke]

There is a ton of info on this site. Click on the forums tab on the left.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/

Learn how bbq- the bbq brethren
Learn how make pizza- pizzamaking.com
Your search should start and end on those 2 sites