Question for CBJ and MCBJ

[Crash]

It's great to hear that some experienced judges have adhered to the rule of not judging down on presentation based on what sauce might stick to the lid. As a former KCBS cook, I can say it always freaked me out (especially with chicken) on how an entry might be scored down on appearance for just this scenario.

We would open the box 3 or 4 times just to make sure this was not an issue. If it was, we wiped off the lid of the box and reapplied sauce after pushing down the meat into the greens.

 

[Pig Headed]

Keith, I have to disagree about the box handling. I have seen numerous occasions where turn in boxes were stacked on the tray before they went to the table. Are we supposed to get marked down for that. I also judge and take this into account while scoring for appearance.

 

[Gowan]

When I table captain, I always remind judges not to deduct points for sauce on the lid.

 

[mobow]

To keep this in perspective of the original post. He states that his product is riding high in the box and he wants to know if he should worry about that. The answer is yes. He should fit it into the box so that the lid will close without smashing the meat. Will he be scored down for the sauce on the lid. No. But, if his actions are causing the problem of a damaged finish why should he expect to get a free pass on that mistake? Keith

 

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

To keep this in perspective of the original post. He states that his product is riding high in the box and he wants to know if he should worry about that. The answer is yes. He should fit it into the box so that the lid will close without smashing the meat. Will he be scored down for the sauce on the lid. No. But, if his actions are causing the problem of a damaged finish why should he expect to get a free pass on that mistake? Keith

Because he is so damn good looking? Because he talks in the third person? I work hard to get a good close on the box, it really is that I am afraid of what other people do with it after I turn it in. How much of a margin is enough? (slightly rhetorical)

 

[Smokedelic]

But, if his actions are causing the problem of a damaged finish why should he expect to get a free pass on that mistake? Keith

As a Master CBJ, when a box is presented at your table, and there is sauce on the lid and the finish of the meat is damaged, how do you determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur?

 

[mobow]

As a Master CBJ, when a box is presented at your table, and there is sauce on the lid and the finish of the meat is damaged, how do you determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur?

In my experience as a judge sauce on the lid is pretty rare. Damaged finish caused by the lid even more rare. On the times that I have seen it is usually chicken sitting high in the box or ribs with the top of the overlapping row hitting the box.

As a competitor I box the meat close, the lid and then open the lid to make sure it will close without touching the meat. And that is the advice that I am giving to the Hauwg father. He should arrange his box so that the lid will close without touching the meat. Keith

 

[bbq.tom]

As a Master CBJ, when a box is presented at your table, and there is sauce on the lid and the finish of the meat is damaged, how do you determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur?

It is NOT up to the judge to "determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur". We are to judge the meat and ignore the sauce on the box lid. PERIOD. If I see an entry with damage to the surface of the sauce and see sauce on the lid, I ignore the damage on that piece and look at the others. There "should" be a piece in the box without damage and would reflect what the other pieces looked like before the lid damage.

 

[dosvans]

It is NOT up to the judge to "determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur". We are to judge the meat and ignore the sauce on the box lid. PERIOD. If I see an entry with damage to the surface of the sauce and see sauce on the lid, I ignore the damage on that piece and look at the others. There "should" be a piece in the box without damage and would reflect what the other pieces looked like before the lid damage.

I totally agree with your full statement of how to approach and Judge a box with sauce on the lid and damage to the piece of meat right below it in the box.

FWIW, out of the 3 contests that I have actually judged over the last year and a half, there was a situation at one of them where the TC on the table next to us was handling the boxes with a single hand. You know that he was having to apply a little more pressure to the top and bottom of the boxes in order to handle them. I just hope that the Judges at that table judged the entries with the same common sense approach that bbq.tom describes above whether the judges at that table saw the TC handling them that way or not.

 

[Smokedelic]

It is NOT up to the judge to "determine who's mistake it was that caused this to occur". We are to judge the meat and ignore the sauce on the box lid. PERIOD. If I see an entry with damage to the surface of the sauce and see sauce on the lid, I ignore the damage on that piece and look at the others. There "should" be a piece in the box without damage and would reflect what the other pieces looked like before the lid damage.

Exactly!! Thank you!!

It's concerning to me that there are judges out there who are trying to determine why there is sauce on the lid, because they wouldn't want to give a cook a free pass if it was their mistake.:roll:

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

Exactly!! Thank you!!

It's concerning to me that there are judges out there who are trying to determine why there is sauce on the lid, because they wouldn't want to give a cook a free pass if it was their mistake.:roll:

So are these said judges suppose to try to determine if the spread out display of meat was also caused by sauce on the lid or was the cook just trying it out for an "artist expression" look?.... just sayin'

 

[Mister Bob]

I judge the meat in the box as presented, period. I don't judge down for sauce on the lid, but I would judge down for sloppy sauce no matter what the cause. I would not judge how the meat might have looked if I suspect the box has been mishandled. Judging is too subjective already, and I wouldn't want to add guesswork to the equation. There are good and bad cooks, good and bad entry runners, good and bad volunteers, good and bad table captains and good and bad judges. That's just the nature of this crazy game we all pursue. I am a cook and a CBJ. I'm very careful about how I put my entry in the box. That's all I can do. After that, it's out of my hands until the awards ceremony. I can only hope for the best...