Need Help on my New Vault Cabinet Smoker

[PaulstheRibList]

Well, we've added another smoker to the stable, a Vault from Pitmaker.com. I've heard several folks use that particular pit, and many of the Breathren praise their insulated cabinet smokers in general. So, when I'm done with the learning curve, I'm expecting great things! The Vault is an insulated, reverse flow vertical cabinet smoker.

In between all the near constant rain days for the last 2 months, I've cooked on her about 6 times, and ran test burns another 4 or so. I've found it takes several hours to get her up to temp, using the coals in the firebox to heat her up. Pete at Pitmaker.com recommends using a propane torch to preheat the cooker, about 10 minutes overall (2 minutes per shelf and sides). I don't have any propane at the moment, but I've ordered a torch and will add that to the equipment mix. They also say that they rarely put water in the cooker, as it's not needed to get great results.

They recommended:
1.) Preheating with the weed burner.
2.) Making an "L" shape of charcoal, generally 3 across and 2 high of briquettes. General rule is 1 pound of charcoal per 10 pounds of meat in the cooker. Put wood chunks on top of the charcoal.
3.) Generally run the 1.5 inch ball valve at 45 degrees to keep the cooker at around 250 degrees once it's hot.

Since I don't have the pre-heating equipment at the moment, and want to learn to use it without pre-heating, here's what I've done:

A.) Put the charcoal in the L shape. Sometimes being precise on the count and stack, and sometimes less precise.
B.) Putting wook chunks on top of the charcoal with spacing.
C.) It takes 3-4 hours to heat up the cooker, with the ball valve between open and 45 degrees.
D.) I've reloaded coals when needed, repeating the L Shape.
E.) When the cooker has been slow to re-heat, or I've choked the coals too much to tap down the temp, I've opened the charcoal door, slid out the basket, and let the live coals re-engage and get a chance to get going again before I put it back in.
F.) I've gotten better at putting in the right amount of fuel to keep it from overheating.
G.) I've put water in the bottom as a heat-diffuser on the last couple attempts, including today.

Results so far:

i.) I'm getting radiant heat from the bottom of the cooker, charring the bottom of the food, even if I put it on an upper rack. (Haven't cooked much with water in the bottom, will try that tomorrow.)

ii.) The wood chunks in the firebox appears to be smoldering rather than burning? From my experience on the stickburner, smoldering wood is BAD, and the flavor is not good.

iii) Once the cooker is up to heat, it's not hard to get it too hot, either from having more fuel than needed, or running the valve too open. Once it's too hot, it's not quick to cool down. Once overhot, cutting down the airflow makes the wood/coals smolder even worse, and down goes the flavor.

iv.) Really poor smoke-ring. I'm guessing this is 100% from having too little airflow and a smoldering fire as a result. I'm guessing I need to arrange the amount of fuel so that I can leave that ball valve open and not overheat the pit.

v.) Inferior flavor. Nothing I've cooked in here has tasted great or even good yet. Again, I think its from a smoldering fire. Reminds me of my first days on the WSM, where I was choking the vents down to about closed to keep the temps in line.

Looks good, but tasting sub-par, and with ratiant heat negatively impacting the texture

I'm testing again tonight, with this fuel setup (3 on the bottom, 2 on top, with wood chunks):

I welcome your advice to help me up the learning curve with this type of smoker!
Thanks, paul

 

[Westx]

I don't have a vault but do have a reverse flow cabinet. As for smoke ring add more wood. I use twice that much with a smaller smoker. Run water fire bricks wrapped in foil to help with the charring. While getting it started run the ball valve full open along with the exhaust damper until you get within 25 to 30 degrees of the temp you want to run at then start shutting things down.

Personally I don't like that fire box setup. I think it being piled up with the wood buried in the charcoal works better and will give you more smoke but that is only the way I do it. You could also use fire bricks and make a maze in the fire box also.

Just my thoughts.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

I don't have a vault but do have a reverse flow cabinet. As for smoke ring add more wood. I use twice that much with a smaller smoker. Run water fire bricks wrapped in foil to help with the charring. While getting it started run the ball valve full open along with the exhaust damper until you get within 25 to 30 degrees of the temp you want to run at then start shutting things down.

Personally I don't like that fire box setup. I think it being piled up with the wood buried in the charcoal works better and will give you more smoke but that is only the way I do it. You could also use fire bricks and make a maze in the fire box also.

Just my thoughts.

Love it. I am really intrigued with the firebrick/maze idea. Thanks!

 

[pjtexas1]

I'm with westtx...
I use a firebrick maze with lots of chunks. To get up to temp faster start with more lit coals. How much lit have you been starting with? I've never charred the bottom of anything, that just seems odd to me. Mine hardly puts any color on the bottoms. I never use water. When you get 40-50 degrees from target temp start closing your intake. You have a lot more metal to heat up than me though. I'm thinking you need more oxygen to your firebox at startup. Maybe put a fan blowing in your ball valve, crack your fb door or remove the ball valve to get more air in until you need to close the intake.

Edit: smaller chunks won't smolder as much, you can control temp some by the width of the maze and how high you stack your charcoal. If you over shoot your temp adding water will bring it down without having to choke down the intake so much that the fire smolders.

 

[cfrazier77]

I have a Humphrey's Down East Beast, a similar sized reverse flow insulated smoker. I get much better results with lump than briquettes. Also, I use a lot more wood. I use a maze configuration and line the bottom with big wood chunks and then top with lump. While some lump is starting in a small chimney, I use a weed burning to bring the smoker up to temp. It works much better that way. If I use the lump to bring it up to temp it seems that most of the smoke goes up before the temp is ready.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

Love the input!

Now, to procure some Firebricks.

 

[cfrazier77]

Humphrey's sells them in metal for your smoker if you would rather have that than fire bricks.

http://www.humphreysbbq.com/collections/tools-and-accessories/products/charcoal-snake-maze

 

[pjtexas1]

Love the input!

Now, to procure some Firebricks.

They are around $2 each at any brick supplier. Hard to find anywhere else.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

They are around $2 each at any brick supplier. Hard to find anywhere else.

Why didn't I think of that? #BecauseYouAreHere

Thanks!

 

[Leftwngr]

Gotta get a weed burner. That is a must. Time saver, fuel saver, and a heck of a way to keep the vault sanitized.

Radiant heat issue: did you get the heat diffuser? If not get a sheet of steel that will fit there. There is a slot over the charcoal basket that you can see where it goes.. There are little grooves there for it to slide in. I have it and have never had an issue with radiant heat off the bottom of the grill. Cant offer much on how to drop the radiant heat without it because I have never had that issue.

Maze/L : I use these T shaped things I ordered from Humphrey's. It was not expensive at all and for most cooks I use 1 of them. For brisket or a full cooker, I will use 2 for a maze. Never used all 3. I like to run at 275, so I don't have a raging fire.

Preheat: valve and exhaust open 100%. I usually leave the firebox door cracked open. I shut it so the latch engages, but not close all the way. Keeps the smoke frm coming out the firebox door, but gives plenty of a boost of oxygen on top of the valve being open. I run the temp to 25-50° past my target cooking temp then shut the door tight and close the valve off so only 15-20% of it is open. I vary depending on how much and what I am cooking. Bigger thicker cuts and roasts need more heat than ribs or chicken parts. That is a feel based thing. Then I load the cooker. Temperature usually settles in after about 15-20 minutes and will stay there for remainder of cook. Water down the exhaust to keep temps in check. If fire gets low, I do the door trick I use to preheat to give it a boost. I usually wont mess with the valve. Towards the end of a cook, I will open the firebox and shovel the coals into a nice pile along the maze to ensure airflow, heat and even burn of all fuel.

Smoke ring: not sure why, but rings got better as cooker broke in. Had same issue with brisket. Nothing else but brisket, so started doing celery salt dry brines to force a smoke ring. Havent had issue since. Now, brisket gets a deep red ring without celery salt. I also spritz more religiously to keep it humid in the cook box, which helps.

Smoke flavor: bury the chunks under your charcoal. Does two things (at least I think): 1) ensures they burn instead of smolder even with the fire being choked off. 2) when part inevitably smolder, the hot coals over the smoldering wood give a pseudo catalytic effect giving you a cleaner smoke an not that acrid stuff coming off a smoldering chunk.

Be patient with it. Once you find the sweet spot, the thing will run marathons for you without missing a beat.

Case of brisket and case of pork butt in one cook. 275 the whole time. No water in pan. Maybe 11-12 lbs of coal. Didnt count the chunks.

Other picture is of the maze right after I got it. It is not so clean anymore.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

Thanks Leftwngr! Yes, I have the heat diverter plate. They actually gave me 2 of them by accident. I've tried running one or both, and haven't done enough to tell the difference.

Before I read your post today, I loaded up this morning's test:

1. Cooker ran dry through the night, so it was 225 degrees when I started
2. Coals were ran out, so I cleaned out the ash's
3. Loaded up an L shape with 2 briquittes, and more wood.
4. Put water in the bottom of the unit
5. Lit up 1/3 chimney of coals, let them run red
6. Ball valve at 45 degrees.
7. Put in 1 rack of St. Louis cut, on the 2nd rack.

I'll keep ya'll updated and will order the T's from Humphrey's today!

 

[Leftwngr]

You'll find the happy set up soon. Just takes some tinkering. Congratulations on the cooker. It is an awesome machine.

I am smoking a bacon slab later today. Will toss something on bottom rack and see about that radiant heat issue.

Also, be sure you calibrate that door thermometer. Mine arrived 55° off.

Vault and a Grillmeister... Wow. Awesome set.

 

[N2Q]

I use a maze as well. Also, try cooking at a higher temp. My vault loves cruising at 300. Calibrate your thermometer to make sure it's accurate. Mine was off by 35 degrees when I got it. Hotter fires on insulated cookers burn cleaner imo because it takes so little air to begin with to keep them up to temp. I also think the diverter is a useful add on for this particular pit. Keep the cooker door closed as much as possible to avoid fluctuating temps. A guru makes these things stupid easy to use. Good luck!

 

[N2Q]

It also looks like you are using too much wood possibly. It's going to smolder more than the briquettes. I usually go 3/1 lump to wood ratio. As far as pre-heating goes... Definitely get a weed burner ASAP. That makes a world of difference.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

Haven't calibrated my thermometer yet...will do today!

Have the weed burner in hand, will use it next heat up.

And I'll hook up the Guru to it as well.

 

[Kaptain Kadian]

Here is a picture of how I run my lonestargrillz vertical cabinet. I also run my ball valve and exhaust wide open until I am 30 degrees or so from my target temperature. I am cooking within 30 minutes or so from start up. I light a weber chimney full of charcoal with a fish fryer and put it in the front left corner. I also put the wood chunks under the charcoal.

 

[waywardtravel]

I have an older vault that still has the sliding door not the small ball valve air inlet.

I cook a lot at 165 for jerky. When I'm doing that I use chips because chunks or wood is scarce and imported. It works great

Mine really likes to cook around 250 or above. When I'm doing that I am adding a small handful of lump every couple hours or so. It doesn't take ant airflow changes. It just runs.

I need a guru.
I haven't had noticeable radiant problems yet
My in orthodox way of adding lump every couple hours is because I have not yet found a consistent supply on any 1 brand yet so it's trial and error every time.

I really like the Vault but I haven't had any other insulated Q before.

And thanks leftwngr for the tips.

EDIT: I first calibrated the pit thermometer at 85 degrees. That was 30 or so degrees off at 275. Then I calibrated it at 275 and it works great.
It shows around 100 when ambient 85 but that doesn't bother me.

 

[JonP]

I love my vault. I have never had the radiant heat issue, sounds like you may need to calibrate door thermometer with a 6mm wrench.

When I preheat mine, I take a full chimney of Royal Oak and just pour it in firebox and I leave ball valve open and door just barely closed. Then I go do food prep. I give it 30-45 minutes to warm up, add a 2 chunks letting them catch firew, add food, leave ball open 100%, then turn it down when I get to desired temp. Everyone is different but I will tell you they burn very little fuel once heated.

 

[Leftwngr]

Here is a look at a 13 hr test burn at 250 with the maze.

Tested out the radiant heat issue and am not getting it. Not sure what's going on there. Call Pete at Pitmaker. He may know what is going on.

The weed burner allows me to be up and ready to cook in 20-30 minutes which was the same to get my Rec Tec to temp. I can't imagine getting all that steel hot with coals alone anymore.

 

[pjtexas1]

I did a test today. Used 2 starter cubes. Took me 1.5 hours to get to 250. Mine is a little smaller than yours at only 450lbs. I'll go back to my normal method of using lit from a chimney.