Judging & Drinking

[The_Kapn]

In the past I have seen many "pile on's" about the KCBS BOD.
I always took them with a grain of salt and stayed out of it.

But, in this case, the BOD is clearly totally out of touch with the rules, common decency, common sense, and maturity.

Their decision, as I understand it, is clearly an amateur "Peice of Chit".

I now understand why a couple of men I know and respect have resigned from that BOD in the past!

What a shame.

TIM

 

[Lake Dogs]

In the past I have seen many "pile on's" about the KCBS BOD.
I always took them with a grain of salt and stayed out of it.

But, in this case, the BOD is clearly totally out of touch with the rules, common decency, common sense, and maturity.

Their decision, as I understand it, is clearly an amateur "Peice of Chit".

I now understand why a couple of men I know and respect have resigned from that BOD in the past!

What a shame.

TIM

Humbly, as evidenced in this decision (or lack of) and many others, I think they've lost complete touch with the whole system, from the roots of competitors and judges, on up. Without competitors the whole thing is moot.

 

[Stoke&Smoke]

It might fall on deaf ears, but then again, if enough people contact the BOD and voice thier disgust with the way this was handled, and also keep records of who voted which way, maybe things could change. One thing is for sure, just complaining without donig anything or even trying to, will not result in any improvement.

Personally, I think at the very least, the judge who dissed Diva should have revieved at least a month suspension for the drinking violation, and at least another month for the way he treated her, which, in the recoding, was hardly even acknowledged. That was unacceptable behaviour in any situation, and should have warrented a lot more than a light slap on the wrist.

The expression "this is all supposed to be fun" was bandied about quite a bit during that special meeting. If blatent disregard for both the judges code of conduct, as well as plain old common courtesy are "fun" to the BOD, I think the ones that feel that way should be replaced. It's only truly fun if everyone plays be the same rules

 

[daedalus]

I listened to the KCBS BOD replay.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I cannot seem to find the replay anywhere on the KCBS site...can you give me a link or tell me where it is located? I would very much like to hear it.
Thanks

 

[Bentley]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I cannot seem to find the replay anywhere on the KCBS site...can you give me a link or tell me where it is located? I would very much like to hear it.
Thanks

KCBS.us under downloads.

 

[Stoke&Smoke]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I cannot seem to find the replay anywhere on the KCBS site...can you give me a link or tell me where it is located? I would very much like to hear it.
Thanks

Go to KCBS.us. On the main page, click resources, then downloads. The particular meeting I referred to was titled KCBS Board of Directors meeting and dated 5/25. I believe you need to be a member to access it

 

[bbqbrad]

What I may be asking the reps in the future is "Are the flying BBQ judges going to be judging here? If so, I don't want to come". If the BoD keeps hearing it from the reps, they may understand that some of us are not happy with the way these KCBS Judges are representing the organization. Sorry, but insulting and bullying a cook isn't a part of an organization that I want to support. And that's the way it looks to me.

 

[Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ]

Someone with the skill to do so should start a petition of sorts lobbying the KCBS BoD to do the right thing and enforce the rules. If enough members sign it maybe they'll get the picture that preferential treatment shouldn't be tolerated. If it is a rule for one person it should be a rule for all.

 

[Carnivorous Endeavors BBQ]

I don't want to stir up this original intent of this thread as the actions were truly distasteful. My intent of this post is to thank the BoD of KCBS for not only hearing its constituents but listening and taking action. It written in the latest Bullsheet that there will be an addendum to the KCBS CBJ rules addressing the issue of consuming alcohol prior to judging.
On the first infraction the judge will be replaced that day and will receive a letter from KCBS.
On a subsequent infraction, the judge will not be able to judge for a period of up to 1 year, will have to retake the CBJ course and will then have to write a letter to KCBS asking to be reinstated as a CBJ.
This course of action is quite fair in my opinion being that cooks face similar penalties and it is nice to see that judges will be held to the same standards.
Thanks to Randy Bigler for submitting this rule change, to Tana Shupe for seconding the motion, and the rest of the BoD for a unanimous vote of approval.

 

[The Cosmic Pig]

Some days i am hoping for a loaded judge to get my food.......

:thumb:

 

[M@]

As a new judge - I take the "No Drinking" rule very seriously. There is also advice to avoid soda before judging, and I take that to heart. I usually only have a cup of coffee the morning of a competition I am judging... and the first time I was worried about even that.

I was a table captain for the first time at the Harpoon competition a few weeks ago - and asked (1/2 joking) if the table captains could have a beer during the judging process. I (still joking) argued that my palette wasn't being utilized, but afterwards when I realized how much food I was carrying around and how bad it would be if I dropped something, or messed up the numbering etc... - I concluded the "no drinking for anyone in the judging tent" is the correct rule. The double blind system is as simple as possible - but even then there are a number of places where a clear mind will prevent easy mistakes.

BBQ goes really well with beer. Good BBQ is quite probably the perfect food to have with good Beers, but drinking by a judge is wrong on a ton of levels.

That being said: I think judges should get a TON of beer tickets at these brewery hosted events!

M@

 

[daedalus]

I don't want to stir up this original intent of this thread as the actions were truly distasteful. My intent of this post is to thank the BoD of KCBS for not only hearing its constituents but listening and taking action. It written in the latest Bullsheet that there will be an addendum to the KCBS CBJ rules addressing the issue of consuming alcohol prior to judging.
On the first infraction the judge will be replaced that day and will receive a letter from KCBS.
On a subsequent infraction, the judge will not be able to judge for a period of up to 1 year, will have to retake the CBJ course and will then have to write a letter to KCBS asking to be reinstated as a CBJ.
This course of action is quite fair in my opinion being that cooks face similar penalties and it is nice to see that judges will be held to the same standards.
Thanks to Randy Bigler for submitting this rule change, to Tana Shupe for seconding the motion, and the rest of the BoD for a unanimous vote of approval.

I agree with you 100% and I too commend the BOD for creating specific consequences for this particular infraction. I also think that the escalating sanctions are very fair and appropriate.
Having said that, I still think they are missing the main point. The real issue here, IMHO, is not so much about the drinking. The really unfortunate part about this situation is the lack of respect shown by some of the judges after they were caught. As mentioned before, the BOD completely glossed over this entire aspect of the issue when they were deliberating it. The issue of respecting other cooks, judges, reps, etc., is supposed to be one of the core philosophies in the KCBS, and they have even written it into their rules. I understand that there is some grey area as to what is and is not "disrespectful", but If they are not willing to at least discuss these issues when they arise, then why do they bother espousing those principles in the first place?

 

[Boshizzle]

Way to go, Diva! I'm a CBJ and if I witnessed judges drinking before a comp I'd turn them in too. There is no excuse for it. Judging is over by 2:30PM at the latest around here and the idea that someone can't wait until at least the afternoon to start drinking is probably an indication that they may have bigger issues in their life to deal with than participating in a KCBS event.

I think the BoD made the right move with the addendum to the rules.

Now, if we could do something about drinking cooks who drop their BBQ on the ground and still turn it in for judges to eat (as happened to a rib I was asked to judge recently) I think some more progress could be made. Does anyone really like the idea of eating food cooked by someone who is drunk?

 

[Stoke&Smoke]

I think it's sad they had to make an addendum. The rule was already in place.
But at least now nobody can claim they "didn't know about it"

 

[Disconnect]

Now, if we could do something about drinking cooks who drop their BBQ on the ground and still turn it in for judges to eat (as happened to a rib I was asked to judge recently) I think some more progress could be made. Does anyone really like the idea of eating food cooked by someone who is drunk?

Weren't you able to DQ it on foreign-material and not eat it?

:yuck:

 

[Boshizzle]

Weren't you able to DQ it on foreign-material and not eat it?

:yuck:

Without going into a lot of the details, after a discussion among the KCBS reps they eventually left it up to me to judge it or not. They felt that the dried grass and other plant matter could have fell in the box while it was open. But, that was a bit of a stretch, IMO.

I thought it over and decided that if I could find a spot on it that I could take a bite from I'd judge it. However, I doubt that a lot of other judges would have been so forgiving.

 

[butt head]

Way to go, Diva! I'm a CBJ and if I witnessed judges drinking before a comp I'd turn them in too. There is no excuse for it. Judging is over by 2:30PM at the latest around here and the idea that someone can't wait until at least the afternoon to start drinking is probably an indication that they may have bigger issues in their life to deal with than participating in a KCBS event.

I think the BoD made the right move with the addendum to the rules.

Now, if we could do something about drinking cooks who drop their BBQ on the ground and still turn it in for judges to eat (as happened to a rib I was asked to judge recently) I think some more progress could be made. Does anyone really like the idea of eating food cooked by someone who is drunk?

are you sure they were drunk. i,ve seen people drop things sober

 

[Boshizzle]

are you sure they were drunk. i,ve seen people drop things sober

I don't want to get into the details of when, where, who, etc., but I'm sure that sober cooks have dropped things and then served them. But, to me, that's just as bad as judging a comp when drinking and maybe someone should have mentioned it to a comp rep if they witnessed it.

 

[Disconnect]

I would expect a sober competitor to at least clean off the grass and dirt if they were gonna try to turn it in anyway..