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I understand what ya'll are saying about the BoD not dealing with such matters but I definitely wouldn't want to see an individual rep making that kind of decision. Seems that would give them entirely to much unchecked power. Maybe a peer review committee made up of several KCBS contest reps?
 
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And to be gut-level honest with you - I would hate to find out that these guys were judging at a competition where I was competing. I would feel cheated.

Someone a while back said something about retraining. It's true that some of us need more of that than others - 'cept for Rookie48 of course. He should be Grand Master Judge of us all.
 
What if the leader of the event brings beer in for the judges while they are judging?
Thoughts?
 
What if the leader of the event brings beer in for the judges while they are judging?
Thoughts?

Ooh, if it was a KCBS event I'd talk to the rep and remind him/her of the rules and maybe throw in my own two cents. No joy there and I'd probably shoot a BoD member a note.
 
What if the leader of the event brings beer in for the judges while they are judging?
Thoughts?

keep it iced until after its all over if its a KCBS event. From what I understand other sanctioning bodies have different regs, and have heard that some allow judges to drink beers and eat pretzels while judging.....

and don't listen to Arlin, he doesn't even like beer:p
 
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??? If I wasn't in my jammies freezing my arse on the back porch right now I'd have a beer. Well, it's only 9:15 so...I'd be thinking of having one!

Oh, and I'm not judging today so it's OK by the KCBS. ;)
 
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??? If I wasn't in my jammies freezing my arse on the back porch right now I'd have a beer. Well, it's only 9:15 so...I'd be thinking of having one!

Oh, and I'm not judging today so it's OK by the KCBS. ;)
lol It's 4PM here and I'm thinking of cracking open a cider under DRKY sanctioned event rules it's my yard and I can make it up...errr.... amend them as I go along.:becky:

cza1361l.jpg
 
If I were a rep, I'd exercise my rights to not accept a judging application from the offending individual for any of my contests for X amount of time.

Josh, the problem with this is that the selection and use of judges is strictly up to the organizer - that's why we have some contests with 100% CBJs and some with mostly "celebrity" (sp?) judges. Some comps will use only CBJs, even for Table Captain and "helper" duties and other organizers will turn away CBJs so that the Mayor & the editor of the paper can get a seat.
Although I DO agree with your sentiment :thumb:.
 
Agreed. The BoD should govern reps and reps should govern judges. If I were a rep, I'd exercise my rights to not accept a judging application from the offending individual for any of my contests for X amount of time. That decision should be up to the individual reps however and not something the BoD dictates.

OH no way!! Reps make decisions like Mike did because of the rules, but they need BOD backup to give the offender punishment. Don't give the rep that decision.
 
So it looks like the "official" response on this was just put out on the latest Bullsheet, page 12

No acknowledgement by offenders that at least 2 of the 6 rules that were listed by them were violated?!? And nothing close to a hint of an apology for thier behaviour.

What a crock!:mad2:

Did I miss where the board addressed this?

I can almost understand how someone might overlook the alcohol rule. But a rule is a rule, and if cooks must comply with the rules, then so should judges, table captains, etc.

What really frosts me is that they were insulting to the person who rightfully turned them in, and in so acting that way, violated a second rule, and apparently think they are elite enough to be allowed to get away with it
 
I listened to the KCBS BOD replay. They mentioned two of the 3 judges have had a "history" of misconduct. There was a brief discussion concerning prohibiting the cooks from drinking, but that did not last long, however they did spend more time discussing that than they did discussing the verbal abuse, which to me seems much more severe than the drinking. Although the verbal abuse was acknowledged and not disputed it was not condemned and did not seem to enter into the assessment of what to do with the judges in question.

The "probation" is not really a probation, it is a free pass/warning, as it comes with no restrictions, no additional monitoring of the judges, and no requirements other than to not do it again. My take away was that the BOD seemed more annoyed with the fact someone raised a stink about the drinking than they did about two of their highest profile judges violating rules and verbally abusing the cook...something to the effect that people complaining are taking “the fun out of the sport"....but if you're interested I recommend you listen for yourselves and come to your own conclusion.
 
What disturbed me about the discussion was pertaining to Celebratie or VIP judges, some of the BOD was more concerned that you might ruffle promoters and sponsers feathers and that these rules wont apply to them, to Paraphrase one BOD, if the Governor of TN is judging and he has a drink before the contest, good luck making the rule apply...

Time to advise promotes that if you want a KCBS event, you take all CBJ before you get to put VIP's in, insted of trying to skirt the issue...so just dont be a CBJ and you can get as tore down as you want before you judge...
 
I had forgotten that the podcasts were available....I think I'll be listening to those a lot more closely in the future. Just sent this email to KCBS for what it's worth...

To the BOD

I just wanted to write to express disappointment over an article in the latest Bullsheet, which I just received today.

On page 12, there is an article about the judges code of conduct. What isn’t mentioned, is that at least one of the authors of the article, who have what amounts to a monthly column in the Bullsheet, was recently DQ’d as a judge at an event in St. Joseph, for breaking rule 2 of the code of conduct, consuming alcohol before judging.

He then further proceeded to break rule 6, by acting in a disparaging manner toward the woman who reported him for drinking. This second infraction got almost no mention in the board meeting!

It seems that at least one of the authors should have admitted his misconduct, instead of just re-posting the rules and hiding by the excuse that “he has been judging for 28 years and his experience actually goes back before the formation of KCBS”, and not even acknowledging that it happened.

So what!? Does that mean he is exempt from the rules because of some perceived grandfather clause? Did he forget that disparaging remarks were not only crass and rude, but also against the rules? Having now listened to the BOD discuss the issue, it’s clear that the judges involved could have chosen to explain to the contest organizer that they were not allowed to imbibe the morning of an event. Instead, they made a conscious decision to go ahead and violate rule #2. And the violation of rule 6 is almost completely ignored in the meeting!

I listened to the podcast of the 5/25 BOD meeting with great interest. I heard some actually trying to excuse it by saying it isn’t a well known rule? Bull! “It’s the first time I heard of this” Really?

Then someone says “why do we allow cooks to drink?” Because, the rules say that cooks can, as long as they don’t get out of hand. And secondly, because the cooks have paid an average of probably 500.00 to compete in that event. It is their responsibility to keep their palates in good enough shape to ensure the food they present tastes the way they want it to. And if you try to tell them they can’t drink, you’ll lose a whole bunch of cooks! Another member of the BOD who won’t be getting my vote next time.

The reps and judges however, are a different story. Reps, I believe, are paid a stipend for their time and effort. And judges owe it to the cooks to keep their palates sharp. In my opinion, smoking should also not be allowed between tasting, but that’s another story altogether!

There isn’t a rule that says cooks can’t drink. There IS a rule in the judges code of conduct, and it’s been there at least as long as I’ve been a KCBS member. Good for the BOD member that pointed that out, and for understanding the difference. Good also, for the person (whose name I didn’t catch) for pointing out that a suspension was in order. Rules are rules people! It is your DUTY as members of the BOD to enforce the rules! And anyone who argued against that will not be getting my vote next time. Later in the conversation, it’s said, “we’re on shaky ground here” What’s shaky? Rules are rules are rules! And …”we don’t have a rule in place”… WTF? There IS a rule in place. Rule 2 of the judges code of conduct! Stop dancing around the matter and issue a suspension! Some kind of probation? What a crock! The rule isn’t “buried pretty deep. It’s at the bottom of the downloads page. And the judges code of conduct is also in the judges certification booklet, So if there was any judge there looking to get their master judge sheet signed, I’d venture a guess that there were multiple copies of that booklet in the judges tent.

I have been a certified judge for over 5 years, a certified table captain for over 4, and a competitor for 4. As such, I’m a relative rookie I suppose. Nonetheless, one of the reasons I became involved, was because of the high standards held by KCBS, and while I may not agree all the time, I follow the rules, because they are just that, rules. Not suggestions that someone can overlook using an excuse of “I didn’t know”

If a team gets caught deliberately breaking a rule, there is often a suspension invoked. Shouldn’t the same rule apply to a judge or table captain?

It is my belief that the right thing to do would have been to acknowledge the infraction, perhaps tell his side of the story, and at the very least, issue a public apology to the person who rightfully reported the infraction. Instead, by not addressing it, he expresses no regret, shows no remorse, and completely sidesteps the issue

To anyone aware of the story, the “article” on page 12 is little more than a whitewash, and probably would have been put to better use as ad space. As a dues paying member, I feel it’s not only my right, but my responsibility to register my disappointment with this situation and the way it was (or wasn’t) reported to the membership. There seems to be no problem enforcing rules pertaining to cooks, who pay large sums of money to compete. How can there be so much disagreement over a written rule?

I can guarantee there will be many members who will not get my vote after the pathetic way this was handled. I can almost see the smug smile on the face of the “flying Barbecue judge” while reading his posting of the very rules he violated. Way to put teeth in the rules guys and gals!:tsk:

Regards,
Dann Boland
#17139
Team 2 Skinny Cooks
 
Thanks Bover. I got an email a short while after sending mine to KCBS from a Kelly Cain. It read...

Thank you for your e-mail. I have forwarded it to a member of the board for their review

I'm fairly sure nothing will come of it....
 
<self mod'd>

The voting system for the KCBS BOD is set up such that familiar names win because everyone votes for multiple people. Only when allowed to vote for one person and the top vote recipients get positions will this be anything different.

In the mean time dont expect anything substantial to happen.
 
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I had forgotten that the podcasts were available....I think I'll be listening to those a lot more closely in the future. Just sent this email to KCBS for what it's worth...

To the BOD

I just wanted to write to express disappointment over an article in the latest Bullsheet, which I just received today.

On page 12, there is an article about the judges code of conduct. What isn’t mentioned, is that at least one of the authors of the article, who have what amounts to a monthly column in the Bullsheet, was recently DQ’d as a judge at an event in St. Joseph, for breaking rule 2 of the code of conduct, consuming alcohol before judging.

He then further proceeded to break rule 6, by acting in a disparaging manner toward the woman who reported him for drinking. This second infraction got almost no mention in the board meeting!

It seems that at least one of the authors should have admitted his misconduct, instead of just re-posting the rules and hiding by the excuse that “he has been judging for 28 years and his experience actually goes back before the formation of KCBS”, and not even acknowledging that it happened.

So what!? Does that mean he is exempt from the rules because of some perceived grandfather clause? Did he forget that disparaging remarks were not only crass and rude, but also against the rules? Having now listened to the BOD discuss the issue, it’s clear that the judges involved could have chosen to explain to the contest organizer that they were not allowed to imbibe the morning of an event. Instead, they made a conscious decision to go ahead and violate rule #2. And the violation of rule 6 is almost completely ignored in the meeting!

I listened to the podcast of the 5/25 BOD meeting with great interest. I heard some actually trying to excuse it by saying it isn’t a well known rule? Bull! “It’s the first time I heard of this” Really?

Then someone says “why do we allow cooks to drink?” Because, the rules say that cooks can, as long as they don’t get out of hand. And secondly, because the cooks have paid an average of probably 500.00 to compete in that event. It is their responsibility to keep their palates in good enough shape to ensure the food they present tastes the way they want it to. And if you try to tell them they can’t drink, you’ll lose a whole bunch of cooks! Another member of the BOD who won’t be getting my vote next time.

The reps and judges however, are a different story. Reps, I believe, are paid a stipend for their time and effort. And judges owe it to the cooks to keep their palates sharp. In my opinion, smoking should also not be allowed between tasting, but that’s another story altogether!

There isn’t a rule that says cooks can’t drink. There IS a rule in the judges code of conduct, and it’s been there at least as long as I’ve been a KCBS member. Good for the BOD member that pointed that out, and for understanding the difference. Good also, for the person (whose name I didn’t catch) for pointing out that a suspension was in order. Rules are rules people! It is your DUTY as members of the BOD to enforce the rules! And anyone who argued against that will not be getting my vote next time. Later in the conversation, it’s said, “we’re on shaky ground here” What’s shaky? Rules are rules are rules! And …”we don’t have a rule in place”… WTF? There IS a rule in place. Rule 2 of the judges code of conduct! Stop dancing around the matter and issue a suspension! Some kind of probation? What a crock! The rule isn’t “buried pretty deep. It’s at the bottom of the downloads page. And the judges code of conduct is also in the judges certification booklet, So if there was any judge there looking to get their master judge sheet signed, I’d venture a guess that there were multiple copies of that booklet in the judges tent.

I have been a certified judge for over 5 years, a certified table captain for over 4, and a competitor for 4. As such, I’m a relative rookie I suppose. Nonetheless, one of the reasons I became involved, was because of the high standards held by KCBS, and while I may not agree all the time, I follow the rules, because they are just that, rules. Not suggestions that someone can overlook using an excuse of “I didn’t know”

If a team gets caught deliberately breaking a rule, there is often a suspension invoked. Shouldn’t the same rule apply to a judge or table captain?

It is my belief that the right thing to do would have been to acknowledge the infraction, perhaps tell his side of the story, and at the very least, issue a public apology to the person who rightfully reported the infraction. Instead, by not addressing it, he expresses no regret, shows no remorse, and completely sidesteps the issue

To anyone aware of the story, the “article” on page 12 is little more than a whitewash, and probably would have been put to better use as ad space. As a dues paying member, I feel it’s not only my right, but my responsibility to register my disappointment with this situation and the way it was (or wasn’t) reported to the membership. There seems to be no problem enforcing rules pertaining to cooks, who pay large sums of money to compete. How can there be so much disagreement over a written rule?

I can guarantee there will be many members who will not get my vote after the pathetic way this was handled. I can almost see the smug smile on the face of the “flying Barbecue judge” while reading his posting of the very rules he violated. Way to put teeth in the rules guys and gals!:tsk:

Regards,
Dann Boland
#17139
Team 2 Skinny Cooks


Dann: I like what you have to say but too bad it will fall on deaf hears! The BOD has proven time and time again that they can not find there way out of a wet paper bag. Thanks for your efforts though.

Jon
 
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