Judge what is presented.....or not

[jmoney7269]

In IBCA and Lone Star, it has to be sliced...else it is a marked box. You can't even turn in 8 or 9 slices if they ask for 7. You couldn't turn in burnt ends with the slices or it would be a "marked box". Under 50 teams...typically 7 slices. Over 50 teams they ask for 9 slices.

In those contests you can't even trim afterward to fit the box or it will be considered marked. Trim before cook is fine...but afterward will get you disqualified.

Thanks for the revamp of the rules, I had forgotten how specific the rules are since the last Time I got smoked at Columbus. Its the hardest sanctioning body of all IMO. I like it, separates the amateurs from the men in the cooking world. Ctba is fun and easy, which alot of places use the format around here. I have come a long way with my brisket since then, so we shall see. Meridian is this weekend

 

[SDAR]

Yep, good luck in Meridian. I chose not to go. It is just too far this year and it would wind up costing us about $1000 - $1500 for the trip...gas guzzling motor home and all.

It'll be 9 slices and 9 ribs unless otherwise noted, no burnt ends, no slicing to fit etc. At least two whole half chickens...unless otherwise noted.

Good luck again.

 

[Bunny]

Education, Education, Education. I will use this example in my next CBJ class. Thank you.

Bunny

 

[Jason TQ]

Education, Education, Education. I will use this example in my next CBJ class. Thank you.

Bunny

That is a reason I shared. Hoping it can happen less. Thanks! :grin:

 

[Big Mike]

And this is what sucks about bbq competitions. Any time you try to be a bit different, you get hammered because you must have screwed something up. When in reality, you just wanted to do something different. Just judge what your given and don't worry about why you were given that.

 

[dmprantz]

I'm just throwing out an idea, but I wonder if this kind of illegal judging would be cut down if reps were held accountable for these kinds of scores. I don't know who the rep was nor am I trying to point fingers at any single persion, but if the Rep Committee or BOD took action against reps for not driving the rules home to judges, they might try just a little bit harder to ensure that the judges understand and will abide by the rules....

dmp

 

[boogiesnap]

I'm just throwing out an idea, but I wonder if this kind of illegal judging would be cut down if reps were held accountable for these kinds of scores. I don't know who the rep was nor am I trying to point fingers at any single persion, but if the Rep Committee or BOD took action against reps for not driving the rules home to judges, they might try just a little bit harder to ensure that the judges understand and will abide by the rules....

dmp

i agree. however, right or wrong depending on how you view comp brisket, you'd never see another flat slice...

 

[Muzzlebrake]

I received a comment card last year stating my brisket needed a better smoke ring. To my knowledge the CD clearly states the smoke ring is the one thing judges are told to not use as a criteria. I was always under the impression that something like that was supposed to be corrected by the TC.

 

[BRBBQ]

I received a comment card last year stating my brisket needed a better smoke ring. To my knowledge the CD clearly states the smoke ring is the one thing judges are told to not use as a criteria. I was always under the impression that something like that was supposed to be corrected by the TC.

Correct, thats talked about before the contest, maybe that judge was late to the meeting

 

[dmprantz]

I'm just throwing out an idea, but I wonder if this kind of illegal judging would be cut down if reps were held accountable for these kinds of scores.

On second thought, this would probably just result in fewer comment cards being handed out. My understanding is that the reps receive the comment cards and affix them to the scores. If a rep knew that a specific comment card could get him/her into trouble, I would bet that card would get "lost."

On a related note, does any one know if KCBScore supports comment cards? Earlier this year it was noted that the system was disigned to make them difficult-to-impossible to implement.

dmp

 

[boogiesnap]

maybe the rules should reflect reality instead of trying to bend it.

 

[Bunny]

I received a comment card last year stating my brisket needed a better smoke ring. To my knowledge the CD clearly states the smoke ring is the one thing judges are told to not use as a criteria. I was always under the impression that something like that was supposed to be corrected by the TC.

These judges at CBJ class are taught not to take the smoke ring into consideration because it can be falsified. But remember there are those who judge who are not CBJ's. But it is stated on the CD.

 

[jmoney7269]

I'm just throwing out an idea, but I wonder if this kind of illegal judging would be cut down if reps were held accountable for these kinds of scores. I don't know who the rep was nor am I trying to point fingers at any single persion, but if the Rep Committee or BOD took action against reps for not driving the rules home to judges, they might try just a little bit harder to ensure that the judges understand and will abide by the rules....

dmp

We just did a comp a few weeks ago that people were instructed to eat the bite sized peice or cut a piece for themselves, but do not touch the meat. A few people disregarded the rules, tried to twist the chicken leg to see if it would pull out, if it didn't, they gave it 1's and spoke of it not being done at the judging table, then it was the domino effect of Others not wanting to try what was presented to them. Teams that do really well in chicken were placing 17th -DAL. When I checked my scorecard that night Becaise we all thought something was fishy, then the truth came out. I got two 9's and three 1's Becaise the judge didn't want to try it. Even though the table captain said this did not happen, the proof is in the pudding. Myself and 6 teams spoke to the administrator of the fair and said we wOuld not return if the judging criteria was not improved on. To me it sounded like a bunch of old timers and drunks getting free meals or what we call "eaters" the sad thing is that the promoter Denys this still to this day when people who were actual judges who have come forward and given their name. It's just that people dont have any personal accountability anymore. It's sad that you have to hold a grown ups hand and walk them through the right process these days

 

[Muzzlebrake]

These judges at CBJ class are taught not to take the smoke ring into consideration because it can be falsified. But remember there are those who judge who are not CBJ's. But it is stated on the CD.

I'll take a look to see if I still have the card but I thought it was from a CBJ.

My question about the whole thing is where are the checks and balances for judges? With so much of judging open to subjectivity here are 2 examples of something that is objective but also specifically forbidden and emphasized prior to each contest.

What happens after a judge submits a score based on the wrong criteria? As a cook if we submit something that is not within the rules we run the risk of being DQ'ed. What recourse does a cook have when they are being judged outside of the rules?

To be honest I have not judged that much and may be wrong but I was under the impression that part of the TC duties were to ensure the judges followed the proper criteria.
I would think that the TC would review the comment cards just as he reviews the score cards. In the case of something like these 2 instances, is it far fetched to think that the TC approach the judge and point out the error and have the entry scored according to the proper criteria?

 

[bbq.tom]

I'll take a look to see if I still have the card but I thought it was from a CBJ.

My question about the whole thing is where are the checks and balances for judges? With so much of judging open to subjectivity here are 2 examples of something that is objective but also specifically forbidden and emphasized prior to each contest.

What happens after a judge submits a score based on the wrong criteria? As a cook if we submit something that is not within the rules we run the risk of being DQ'ed. What recourse does a cook have when they are being judged outside of the rules?

To be honest I have not judged that much and may be wrong but I was under the impression that part of the TC duties were to ensure the judges followed the proper criteria.
I would think that the TC would review the comment cards just as he reviews the score cards. In the case of something like these 2 instances, is it far fetched to think that the TC approach the judge and point out the error and have the entry scored according to the proper criteria?

This is yet another reason for KCBS to keep track of CBJs and how they are judging, which is exactly what they are working on with their new software.

Judges that consistently score in the 5-7 range while others at their table are in the 8-9 range for the same category will be able to be identified and "counseled" or whatever KCBS is planning on remedial training.

 

[bigabyte]

Once a score is written down, it can not be changed. However, the judge can be spoken to, and depending on what the organizer chooses to do, if they get wind of it, they don't have to allow that judge to judge at any more of their contests.

That's the extent of consequences for judges though in terms of an improperly scored entry (too high or too low). Basically none.

Having the lowest score thrown out takes care of this problem in most cases, at least where it dings the cooks.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

I would take that as a hint. Put slices in the box. Taking risks is good and all, but in kcbs are rarely rewarded.

 

[Bunny]

I'll take a look to see if I still have the card but I thought it was from a CBJ.

My question about the whole thing is where are the checks and balances for judges? With so much of judging open to subjectivity here are 2 examples of something that is objective but also specifically forbidden and emphasized prior to each contest.

What happens after a judge submits a score based on the wrong criteria? As a cook if we submit something that is not within the rules we run the risk of being DQ'ed. What recourse does a cook have when they are being judged outside of the rules?

To be honest I have not judged that much and may be wrong but I was under the impression that part of the TC duties were to ensure the judges followed the proper criteria.
I would think that the TC would review the comment cards just as he reviews the score cards. In the case of something like these 2 instances, is it far fetched to think that the TC approach the judge and point out the error and have the entry scored according to the proper criteria?

Most of the reps we know take the comment cards seriously. We do anyway. If something is out of line, we talk to the judge. But remember, we try hard not to let it happen but judges do slip by us from time to time. We also have a CD the Table Captains must listen to because their job is so important.

 

[arrowhead]

I'll take a look to see if I still have the card but I thought it was from a CBJ.

My question about the whole thing is where are the checks and balances for judges? With so much of judging open to subjectivity here are 2 examples of something that is objective but also specifically forbidden and emphasized prior to each contest.

What happens after a judge submits a score based on the wrong criteria? As a cook if we submit something that is not within the rules we run the risk of being DQ'ed. What recourse does a cook have when they are being judged outside of the rules?

To be honest I have not judged that much and may be wrong but I was under the impression that part of the TC duties were to ensure the judges followed the proper criteria.
I would think that the TC would review the comment cards just as he reviews the score cards. In the case of something like these 2 instances, is it far fetched to think that the TC approach the judge and point out the error and have the entry scored according to the proper criteria?

table captains are instructed not to approach the judges about the scores. they are instructed to review the scorecards and bring any discrepancy to the attention of the rep and the rep is supposed to handle it. the rep is the only person who can authorize a change of score.

 

[landarc]

I would take that as a hint. Put slices in the box. Taking risks is good and all, but in kcbs are rarely rewarded.

I don't entirely agree here, and it is beacuse I have been that guy who just did not get my flat done right, but, for some reason, the point was incredible. I wanted to turn in the point as slices, but, my team captain made the call to chunk it, before the flat was checked. We turned in slices and chunks, and the one comment we got was that if the chunks alone, we scored higher, the flat took away from it.

And yes, i could have cooked it better.