Is this forum going the way of other forums

[Dylan's Dad]

I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits me the wrong way.

This has to be meant for another forum.

 

[motoeric]

Andy had an excellent point in that on other prominent BBQ forums (maybe not plural) this thread would have been deleted.

I'm proud to belong to a forum that will allow self criticism regardless of the perceived validity of those claims.

I also agree with the other poster who questioned why this was in the competition sub-forum. Since it's here I assume that Merl is referencing problems in this area and like it or not, this area is dominated by discussions related to the KCBS. So where in discussions that involve the KCBS has the atmosphere become rancorous?

I hope that Merl will chime back in and offer some specifics.

Eric

 

[motoeric]

I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits me the wrong way.
.

Exhausted is a good concern, but you shouldn't be worried about being new. Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses and I'm sure that we all welcome your input.

Eric

 

[Dan - 3eyzbbq]

I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

Sorry to hear it, I'm happy here :clap2:

 

[Derek]

You know, after being here for a while I've made a few mistakes that would have gotten me banned in other forums, but instead of being pissy about it and pouting off? I've talked to a few mods, They calmed me and been rash with my mistakes.

They even called them mistakes and I know I might have lost a friend or 2 with my dry sense of humor, Or even a rude comment by accident I do try to apologize here.

I've never even had any real friends until now thanks to the bbq brethren site, and the great lakes bbq forum.

I've even got a few mods as friends, on other sites ( music ) if you just caugh near a mod on those sites or if you had a guitar they wanted on those sites, they would ban you for ever ) and say your not wanted here anymore go find a different home.

Anyways what I'm trying to bable or say, This forum is one of the best I've ever been too and I actually got real friends here. and it sure feels nice.

Merl maybe you got to rethink what you say? I know I've learned to think first. and I'm hoping those lost friends will come back when I've stayed here for another 6 months or so.

 

[HoDeDo]

I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits mthat e the wrong way.This has to be meant for another forum.

I know its a little bit of thread drift. but it's always nice to hear when a group gets together..I have to say, some of my best friends are folks I have met here. Granted some of the KC locals, I would have met anyway... But Plowboy, Big Creek, Moo Cow and others I met via this forum first (would have likely met them anyway). I have some pretty amazing relationships that were fostered right here. I can be almost anywhere in the country and run into someone that I consider a dear friend. That is due to this place. Period. I have friends from Los Angeles to Lake Placid, and the UP to Houston... I couldnt have met those folks, and enriched the life of my family the way I have without help from this little corner of the BBQ world. So Merl,

I think I understand where you are coming from Merl, but for me, the main reason that I am a paying member of this forum is because I don't see very much of that sort of thing on it. It has been my experience that members who are just here to cause trouble and flame anyone they can usually get weeded out pretty quickly by the people on this forum who want to have real discussions about BBQ.

Having said that, I do think that it is completely valid and legitimate for members and moderators to engage in frank and honest discussion about things that affect this hobby/sport. There is no reason why these discussions should not involve subject such as unhappiness with BOD policies, methods, politics etc. Obviously, in an ideal world these discussions should stop short of getting adversarial and personal, but we are all human, and tend to lash out when we get our feelings hurt. Also, some people just really like to stir things up and watch the chaos ensue. Personally, if I see a thread degenerate into that sort of ugliness, I simply stop following that one. This forum is diverse enough to offer plenty of other threads to participate in.

As for this forum going the way of other forums, I agree with Bigabyte. This forum is infinitely more civil than any other one I have ever seen, and while it may not be perfect, I am willing to put up with the occasional jerk in order to be a part of the best, most informative, cooperative, and friendly forum on the web.

I agree 100%. I noted earlier I had not been on as often as usual... this week I had 12 pages of threads I had not read when I logged in... over 450. The only ones that had any "heat" to them at all, were the ones over the board meeting.

I went and read the posts referred to by Jorge, and his posts are all matter of fact, statements, about how he plans to try to impact things in the BBQ sociecty he's a member of. No name calling, no personal accusations, etc. I think it is wonderful that folks can talk about such things here without risk of retribution, and censorship via overmoderation.
Thanks again to all the Mods. You do thankless work to keep this place the way it is. And thanks to the members that care enough to play by the rules. I think before anyone starts making accusations about this forum, they should look at ALL the places there are to go here... a HUGE portion of it has nothing to do with comps or KCBS. Read about the bashes, read about the new brisket temps, read about folks tribulations with vending... go vote for a Big Mista Vendy award.... I could fill 10 pages with all of the OTHER stuff going on here that has nothing to do with KCBS or Comps. Love this place. thanks.

 

[Brauma]

I know I've been a little light on the forum the past few weeks but I have seen it either. What did I miss?

Oooohh... now I see.

just FYI, this is why I didnt re-up my KCBS membership. Way too much BS/drama/politics goin on on the BOD. Since nothing changed, I changed. I'm going to get more involved with my local BBQ organization - MABA.

 

[BBQchef33]

ADMIN RESPONSE: You point ME to one thread where a moderator, ACTING AS A MODERATOR and NOT A MEMBER has overstepped a boundary or broken one of our rules and i will address it. Moderators live to a tighter standard here than members and I have yet to see one abuse that privledge.

Our moderators however ARE STILL MEMBERS and are entitled to voice their personal opinions. When they are acting in an official capacity, it is stated as 'MOD NOTE", 'ADMIN NOTE', and sometimes even posted in assigned color(green for moderators, red for admins). There should never be any confusion when staff is acting in official capacity as opposed to personal.

I have stated time and time again, we are about FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION. Moderators are instructed to NEVER moderate on content and to enforce a VERY, sometimes OVERLY detailed set of rules. This also holds true for members who can not expect us to stifle another members opinions or statements because they, or someone doesn't like hearing it. Open, frank discussions, that as long as they are within our guidelines, and remain civil will ALWAYS be allowed on this forum. When required, moderators will step in to put a conversation back on track and defuse a possibly volatile situation before it spins out of control. This is done INSTEAD of shutting down or removing a thread, and it is only a last resort when we feel we can no longer control the situation or the thread has completely unraveled. Only then do we shut it down. Anything short of these efforts is censorship and we dont roll that way. If anyone prefers a forum where controversial or sensitive topics are sanitized or removed based on an alliance or emotion there are a few out there that will cater to you. WE ARE NOT ONE OF THEM.

We have had and always will have controversial discussions crop up that folks don't like, myself and staff included. But as much as I may dislike the content, topics or direction a thread is going, I WILL NEVER ALLOW CENSORSHIP. Unlike other forums, the administration here does not act out of personal opinions, alliances or emotion, but instead do their best to perform as professionally and as fairly as possible to enforce our rules.

With 1500+ posts a day, it is impossible to find each and every breach, and with that we do depend on our membership to not only police themselves, but other members thru the use of the 'report bad post' button. We receive many reports a day and each is evaluated. Determinations are made as to whether the reports are valid according to our guidelines.

I personally am extremely proud to have the moderating team that I do and I think they are one of the best ones around. Some of them have been in place for years, and they run this forum in my absence. I have no problem sleeping at night knowing it is in their hands.

If any member sees a problem they feel needs attention use that report button and it will be handled accordingly.



On a personal note: I thank the members in this thread who have stood up for our integrity, the direction of this forum and recognize the efforts we put into making this forum what it is. :thumb:

 

[ique]

I am just asking your opinion.

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

I don't read all the posts but the only blasting I saw was between two members of the KCBS Board of Directors. To answer your question directly, No I dont think we need mods for the mods. As long as you remain civil and relatively on topic the mods let members speak their mind.

I find it odd that you would come in here and bash this forum when the KCBS board has not really been a shining example of civility under your tenure.

 

[Jeff S.]

WOW! I am very new here but I gotta tell you, you are way off base.

There maybe an occasion where someone feels attacked and responds accordingly, but as far as what you are saying about the online enquirer, you could not be more mistaken.

This is a great forum, with tons of good info, and a ton of great members. People dont always see "Eye to Eye" thats what makes America, and this forum a great place to be.

If you are not liking what you are reading, then maybe the problem is you and not this forum. After all,

It is the "I" behind the eye that see's.

 

[WannaBeBBQueen]

It's a shame we have to defend a place we love so much...

It's always felt like family to me.

 

[monty3777]

I'm calling bullchit on this thread. I disagreed with some points made in a thread by a moderator (Jorge) and he responded like a brother - not like the Minister of Propaganda on other forums.He disagreed. He DIDN'T delete me or edit my thoughts. He respected them. We are all treated with nothing but respect here (even when we don't deserve it).

 

[ZILLA]

No, this forum is as stable and viable a discussion group as I've seen. Very solid indeed.

 

[Jorge]

Mod Note: I've done some cleanup. There was one post that singled a particular member out. That was easy enough. I deleted a couple of posts from other members that chose to use that particular post as a debating point.

Report a post to the moderators that is a violation of the rules. That's why they exist.

 

[Trucky1008]

I'm not seeing it at all. This is hands down the best forum available. Thank you to all the Mods for the wonderful job that you do. And thank you to all the members that share their experience and love for the art of Q'ing. I've learned so much from this forum.

 

[Podge]

The mods have a thankless job.. But we all need to recoginize what they do for this forum !!.. :becky::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

As far as this forum going to hell in a handbasket.. well, I do not see it as such.. They only complaints the really get to me is the ones about the BoD of KCBS.. The others are just conflicts in personality and people taking the written word the wrong way.. Lord knows 99% of the people on here mean well.

 

[TactTm1]

I've only been here a couple weeks but have scanned many of the threads and posts throughout the Forum in order to get a feel for things.

As a member of other Forums (non-bbq related) it appears that this Forum does a great job of having members who actually help and answer and teach and communicate....whereas some other boards flame, insult and make newbies feel dumb.

I haven't (yet) experienced that here and I really doubt I will!


Now, about getting those coals really hot, how should I......:wink:

 

[BobBrisket]

Personally, I'm still waiting on evidence, examples, and over all proof. Been waiting ALL day too........still,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nothing.
I do, however, see TONS of support for what this forum IS, and what it WILL ALWAYS BE!!
THAT, is MORE than good enough for me. THAT is what makes OUR forum the MOST emulated and I'll say it "RESPECTED" of any other Q related forum.
As a new moderator, I do take exception to comments regarding how we moderate. Honestly, Merl, you have no idea. NO idea what it takes to keep the atmosphere and CULTURE here. I'm still in awe of the process and HONORED to be part of it.
You posed many questions. Questions which I am sure you have answers to. Let's hear them. Let's not talk in soft references or weak generalizations. Let's get it all out there, and only from total and real honesty, can we more this issue forward.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

i AM living proof and my growth here is proof there is fairness in this forum. I get out of line, some mods put it bluntly, others a bit more nicely but eventually I come around because, well, love this forum like a hot underage cousin.

did I go over any lines? I seldom know these days.

No, this is malanced and fair forum. The mods are pretty even handed. Sure there are alliances.. its called friendship. BUT I DO NOT believe there is the same environment like there exist like in that suckhole forum which I will not say the name of.

I WOULD like some specifics though... I see none... maybe I have not been reading closely. Vinny made a good point... albeit poorly. what he means to say is probably...well, Popdaddy says "let's say you got one of those Brazilian Hookers shipped in and you just do not know how much wax and anal bleach your gonna need to get her all hairless in the right areas. You got to drop the drawers where everyone sees how big a thicket there is" So... drop her drawers and let's see how much wax we need.

I know, I know- "thanks to donnie for explaining something where we can all understand it."

 

[landarc]

Or we can let this thread go where it should. I have been involved with many online forums for topics other than this, all of them are forums I have left just for the behavior I have seen here only in threads concerning criticism of the KCBS board. None of the other threads I have seen have been rancorous or confrontational. When the inevitable flare-ups have occurred, they have been settled. One of the things I have really disliked about the "board" threads is where a board member has posted something along the lines of "you can't know this, but, I know something you don't". Seems to me that there are a lot of unhappy people out there. I would also suggest, that instead of getting hurt feelings, the KCBS might want to hear people like Jorge, there are a lot of places for people to compete in BBQ comps, other organizations too. It would be a shame for the KCBS to lose it's way, or the support of forums like this considering all it has done to further both the world of competition BBQ and the popularity of BBQ in general.