THE BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS

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Dr. BBQ said it best at his class a few years back..

BBQ ALLOWS you to cook it low and slow.. but it does not have to be.. All pits are different You need to know how your pit operates, what type of moisture retention they have etc. to determine if hot/fast or low/slow will yield best results in your pit.

Thermometer may read the same #, but that does not tell the story...
 
Great Thread .. Us Brethern are by pure definition very serious about our BBQ. My 2 cents worth is that the main difference between low and slow and higher temp are the following 3 factors:
1) The slower the temp, the more smoke penatration.
2) Quicker sweat time durations for Higher Temps which results in less Rub Flavors being pulled deeper in the meat. For ya'll that do not undersstand sweat times, I will explain as when the piece of meat takes it's moisture to the surface and then draws the moisture back in the meat. This is why for instance when smoking a Boston Butt it takes forever to get off the 170' internal temp (One of the Sweat Temp).
3) The higher the Temp, the lower the humidity. Simple physics applies here and explains why the bark is much more defined at higher temp. The other issue is that at higher temps be careful on sugar content in Rubs and Mops as they will tend to burn much quicker.

I am under the opinion that there is no right temp for all meats and smokers, but rather that is the mystery in finding what best suites you and yours.

BTW - I have a LANG 84 Longneck and burn only Logs (No Charcoal) so I tend to also use Temp to help regulate the smokiness of my finished products.
 
.......the meat cares not about the house temp, that is until the stall or ITemp of about 160-170 occurs then it matters a lot what you do.

Just for clarification and understanding:

It doesn't matter how slow or how fast you get it to the stall temp, but it does matter how long you keep it at the stall? If this is true then you can nuke it to the stall, but then once in the stall what do you do? Is there a certain time that you want to keep it at the stall?

- do you back the temp down in the 225°F range and monitor for tenderness?

In a nutshell what is the process?

Thanks,
 
I am under the opinion that there is no right temp for all meats and smokers, but rather that is the mystery in finding what best suites you and yours.

BTW - I have a LANG 84 Longneck and burn only Logs (No Charcoal) so I tend to also use Temp to help regulate the smokiness of my finished products.
__________________
Jim @ Big Jim's BBQ - Newnan, GA


Very well put Jim! I don't think there's a right way or wrong way here. There are so many variables to factor in as to which way works for your style of cooking, cooker, type of meat, prep of meat or lack of, etc....... I personaly have found that to low and slow on a UDS can result in overly smoked meat pending if I use chunks or not and type of wood used. Some like it this way, I prefer to taste the meat without an overpowering smoke flavor, so I've adjusted my temps a little higher, reduced sugar content in my rubs and baste and cut back on the amount of wood I use. That being said I've cooked good que low and slow but some of my best cooks were at higher temps.
 
I think the real myth is that briskets and butts need an extended time in "the zone" in order to break down the connective tissue. That's simply not true. You may prefer the taste of low and slow but I promise you that a brisket cooked in 5 hours is every bit as tender as a brisket cooked in 15 hours.
 
I think the real myth is that briskets and butts need an extended time in "the zone" in order to break down the connective tissue. That's simply not true. You may prefer the taste of low and slow but I promise you that a brisket cooked in 5 hours is every bit as tender as a brisket cooked in 15 hours.


Really? That's a myth? Tell me more!!
You don't need to break down the connective tissue to make it tender & juicy?
(Serious....not being scarcastic at all)
 
Really? That's a myth? Tell me more!!
You don't need to break down the connective tissue to make it tender & juicy?
(Serious....not being scarcastic at all)

The myth is that the meat must be in the zone for an _extended period of time_ in order to break down the connective tissues. The extended period of time is what I would challenge. Check out the All-Star BBQ Challenge where Myron Mixon cooks brisket. Cooks them at 350-375*!!!
 
Those briskets are heavily injected. That's why they are juicy and not just tender.

I'm of the opinion that most of what gets injected into a brisket gets cooked out. I think Myron is going for flavor rather than juicyness when he injects like that.
 
Just for clarification and understanding:

It doesn't matter how slow or how fast you get it to the stall temp, but it does matter how long you keep it at the stall? If this is true then you can nuke it to the stall, but then once in the stall what do you do? Is there a certain time that you want to keep it at the stall?

- do you back the temp down in the 225°F range and monitor for tenderness?

In a nutshell what is the process?

Thanks,

Well although MY grandmother could actually do a great prime rib in the microwave (took longer than conventional oven) I assumed no one would suggest this.... Nuking goes from inside out... which in essense is against every other type of traditional cooking principle....

so No... don;'t nuke it.

Also we are talking about texture and tenderness not flavor (not because you cannot get it) so no... don't cook it in the oven and then set it in there.

Technically.... keep it at the stall untill the fat turns to jelly and the probe feel is right.

I omitted saying the term "hot and fast within reason" because I have seem AWESOME brisket turned out on Smitty's Brick Pit that was so hot I could not stand near it... I saw a 10 pounder be done in 4-5 hours... taste.... phenominal.... so I won't go there because I do not know where that "beyond reason" point is.

Another case in point... has anyone ever put a brisket in a hold with one inch of fat obviously in betweent he point and flat and pulled it out with nearly none?
 
I think the real myth is that briskets and butts need an extended time in "the zone" in order to break down the connective tissue. That's simply not true. You may prefer the taste of low and slow but I promise you that a brisket cooked in 5 hours is every bit as tender as a brisket cooked in 15 hours.

Your wisdom in this statement is wonderful... you sure your not from Texas?:-D
 
I'm of the opinion that most of what gets injected into a brisket gets cooked out. I think Myron is going for flavor rather than juicyness when he injects like that.

I do believe that the injection he uses is a solution (chemicals) that causes the retention of moisture not just flavor inhancement. Weather in it's FAB B or Butchers I don't know.
 
The myth is that the meat must be in the zone for an _extended period of time_ in order to break down the connective tissues. The extended period of time is what I would challenge. Check out the All-Star BBQ Challenge where Myron Mixon cooks brisket. Cooks them at 350-375*!!!

just remember the type of pit he is using... a water pan style smoker..

read here http://www.jacksoldsouth.com/cookers/
I've been BBQ'ing competitively since 1996. The first cooker I ever used was a water pan cooker built by Jimmy Maxey. Fourteen years later, I'm cooking on water pan smokers built by his son and my partner, Jim Maxey. These cookers are built solid and are dependable for travel up and down the highways or for many years of use in the back yard. But, when you can tenderize your meat while you're BBQ'ing with boiling water and apple juice, well I call that a match made in heaven. These cookers have no cold or hot spots. They cook even through the whole cook. You can get more cooker for your dollar here than any where else, plus they win. So give 'em a try. I wonder if using the same smoker all these years had any thing to do with me winning?
... Myron Mixon
 
This is just a cut and paste that people may find informative.



About Collagen Breakdown In Meat ***See Directions*** 1John Isenhouer asked for a thesis on collagen. It won't take a thesis to discuss the process as it relates to BBQ.2Meats are made of muscle, connective tissue, fat and bone. Muscle contains proteins and glycogen. As the temperature of the meat increases, glycogen, a long chain sugar, is reduced to simple sugars. This caramelizes and is responsible for one of the flavor components.3Proteins (flavorless) are denatured to amino acids which not only have flavors themselves, but undergo Maillard browning reactions which adds another flavor component.4While bone adds no flavor itself, the marrow is rich in methyglobulin and other proteins. This reacts with smoke nitrites to give us the smoke ring. You may have heard that "the sweetest meat is next to the bone". The proteins are reduced to amino acids. Nutrasweet is an amino acid.5Fat is very simple cells which breakdown to sugars, fatty acids, and triglycerides at low temperatures.6Collagen is proteins that have lots of side chain bonds. This makes them elastic. It takes more energy to denature them than the simpler proteins of muscle tissue. Energy in the form of heat will denature these proteins into the flavorful amino acids.7If the temperature is too high, the water in the muscle cells and the fat is rendered out before the collagen melts. This results in dry, tough meat. Too low and you risk bacterial activity.8Tough cuts of meat like brisket and pork butts benefit from low temperature cooking as the collagen adds flavor to the meat. Less tough, more expensive cuts do not need this phase and can be cooked at high temperatures for shorter periods. That is why ribs take only a few hours and briskets take 20.
 
About Collagen Breakdown In Meat ***See Directions*** 1John Isenhouer asked for a thesis on collagen. It won't take a thesis to discuss the process as it relates to BBQ.2Meats are made of muscle, connective tissue, fat and bone. Muscle contains proteins and glycogen. As the temperature of the meat increases, glycogen, a long chain sugar, is reduced to simple sugars. This caramelizes and is responsible for one of the flavor components.3Proteins (flavorless) are denatured to amino acids which not only have flavors themselves, but undergo Maillard browning reactions which adds another flavor component.4While bone adds no flavor itself, the marrow is rich in methyglobulin and other proteins. This reacts with smoke nitrites to give us the smoke ring. You may have heard that "the sweetest meat is next to the bone". The proteins are reduced to amino acids. Nutrasweet is an amino acid.5Fat is very simple cells which breakdown to sugars, fatty acids, and triglycerides at low temperatures.6Collagen is proteins that have lots of side chain bonds. This makes them elastic. It takes more energy to denature them than the simpler proteins of muscle tissue. Energy in the form of heat will denature these proteins into the flavorful amino acids.7If the temperature is too high, the water in the muscle cells and the fat is rendered out before the collagen melts. This results in dry, tough meat. Too low and you risk bacterial activity.8Tough cuts of meat like brisket and pork butts benefit from low temperature cooking as the collagen adds flavor to the meat. Less tough, more expensive cuts do not need this phase and can be cooked at high temperatures for shorter periods. That is why ribs take only a few hours and briskets take 20.
The one equation I see missing... is their definition of low and high temp. Very interesting read.
 
If the temperature is too high, the water in the muscle cells and the fat is rendered out before the collagen melts. This results in dry, tough meat. Tough cuts of meat like brisket and pork butts benefit from low temperature cooking as the collagen adds flavor to the meat. Less tough, more expensive cuts do not need this phase and can be cooked at high temperatures for shorter periods. That is why ribs take only a few hours and briskets take 20.

I think a lot of people are proving this wrong. Just saying.
 
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