Is having to cook "low and slow" a myth?

[Midnight Smoke]

So by your own logic...then... low and slow is NOT the proper way because hot and fast was used before the 1905 shift. Therefore... hot and fast (as well as a pre-simmer of all meats before roasting over the fire) is the proper way... and it was determined to be because its an older method.

I know you are a firm believer in the hot/fast method. That is fine, to each their own.

You could also look it as this, a 100 years ago they were really not doing it right and time told the story. Lo-n-Slo was found to produce a better product. Going back to a way that had proved to be flawed does not make a lot of sense.

But if it works for you, then that is fine. Personally I just cannot see a big Packer Brisket getting tender without a long slow cook.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I guess now my question is if the "original way" was high and fast then what prompted the "shift" in 1905 and why has it not "shifted back" in over 100 years?

Obviously something dictated the change to "low and slow". Now what that was I have no clue.

 

[Midnight Smoke]

I guess now my question is if the "original way" was high and fast then what prompted the "shift" in 1905 and why has it not "shifted back" in over 100 years?

Obviously something dictated the change to "low and slow". Now what that was I have no clue.

Just try it both ways and you can find out for yourself. I am sure both ways will turn out a decent meal...:wink: You decide.

 

[landarc]

I have always wondered about the methods, as when I have seen Santa Maria style bbq, they are cooking over oak in an open pit, on direct heat. They do have the ability to raise and lower the grill quite a bit, but, they can turn out some great tri-tip and it is not low and slow.

 

[ZILLA]

Friday June 30th 1905
Albert Einstein publishes the article "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies", where he introduces special relativity.


This caused the shift from Hot & Fast to Low & Slow. It had to be. The only other things going on was the Russian Japanese war and the beginning of the Bolshevik revolution. Oh yea there was that thing where Norway and Sweden dissolved their special relationship, but that was about it!

It shall forever be known as the Einstein Method of BBQ Relativity.

 

[Fat Guy]

I did not have time to read all responsses. But to me, low and slow is old school. When people did not have our advanteges. They had chit cuts of meat, fire(from wood), and had to make do. So they moved the meat away form the fire and for a long time. Thus making it moist and tender. This was not choice. The poor were the bbq people. When ribs and brisket where considered throw away meats. The poor found a way to make them good.:idea:

 

[Cigarbque]

I'm on the road this week so just getting caught up here. Facinated by all this. Remeber there is history and there is inovation. Learn from them all and try them all. Learn and understand the history and then try to inovate and create a new path. Cook BBQ how you like and respect other methods.

If you have a big stick burner and you are cooking several cuts of meat you are not able to change temps the way you could on say a UDS cooking only one kind of meat. Differnt cookers require different methods. Not bad just different.

For me: I cook my pork low and slow. Done it different and don't like the results. My brisket will be hot and fast from now on. My ribs are someplace in between and unlike most I do my chicken low and slow and get moist and tender results that way so I am happy with that.

Que on and enjoy. Take your time, open a drink of choice and enjoy the thin blue smoke.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

I did not have time to read all responsses. But to me, low and slow is old school. When people did not have our advanteges. They had chit cuts of meat, fire(from wood), and had to make do. So they moved the meat away form the fire and for a long time. Thus making it moist and tender. This was not choice. The poor were the bbq people. When ribs and brisket where considered throw away meats. The poor found a way to make them good.:idea:

Party correct. But the the conclusion that low and slow was old school is stretching it. History shows us that orginally the process was much more regionally homogenous in technique before 1905. Most people BBQing where either on the trail and doing it in a pit. At times yes a spit. So hot and fast was slower and more indirect than grilling and there was no Temerature at all.

Low and slow did not even catch on really even after 1905 when food and drug concerns press for universal sanitary laws that eventually spelled the end of ground PITS. Germans use ovens. Mostly due to the volume of space they would need for sausages. Czech and pols as well. Then the the static brick pit came into being from two forces, the agrarian trucking industry and the advent of our modern highways and automobiles in the 1920s and 1930s. Most of the Q joints that are over 50 years old all do things pretty fast. So, in essense.... low and slow (under 250) is not really old school at all as hot and fast was around so much longer. This is why I chuckle when the novice Qer spouts off a comment about simmering meats first not being traditional.

Really... it is commonly agreed that competition is the actual cataylst for "low and slow" propaganda. But they have also pushed the envelope in doing so.

 

[Bogus Chezz Hawg]

Why cook fast & hot? I can drink much more alcohol on an empty stomach waiting for my low & slow to finish.

 

[LT72884]

I can tell a difference. I think tv shows with bobby flay and the one dudes restaurant tell you that so sub consciously you THINK they are just as good as slow cooked. My BB ribs grilled were good but not fall off the bone like they are slow cooked.

Here is an expeirment. Take a pork butt and cook till 170. Its not pullable is it. However it is considered done.

 

[comfrank]

Friday June 30th 1905
Albert Einstein publishes the article "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies", where he introduces special relativity.


This caused the shift from Hot & Fast to Low & Slow. It had to be. The only other things going on was the Russian Japanese war and the beginning of the Bolshevik revolution. Oh yea there was that thing where Norway and Sweden dissolved their special relationship, but that was about it!

It shall forever be known as the Einstein Method of BBQ Relativity.

Now that's damn funny.

--frank in Wilson, NY

 

[Bacon]

I can tell a difference. I think tv shows with bobby flay and the one dudes restaurant tell you that so sub consciously you THINK they are just as good as slow cooked. My BB ribs grilled were good but not fall off the bone like they are slow cooked.

Here is an expeirment. Take a pork butt and cook till 170. Its not pullable is it. However it is considered done.

Fall off of the bone is a myth for some by considering that the pinnacle of "good". Most Q'rs prefer a slight resistance from the bone. I am one of them Folks.

Pork Shoulder cooked to that temp could only be sliced. Trying to pull it at that temp would be ripped pork.

 

[DFW Big Tex]

Smokey flavor of low and slow vs. fast and hot? Change the fuel and see. I like primarily Alder or Alder mixed with a small amount of something else for a low and slow 225 - 250 cook. If I want to speed it up 250 - 325 I use Hickory or Misquite to get the smoke flavor up....The fuel does matter in the end result. But perhaps it is another factor that should be kept constant to determine ones own true temp setting for their brisket, butts and ribbs.

For the record: I LOVES me some low and slow but ONLY with Alder!!!!!

BTW - Right after I discovered ALDER......I think the price went up because I started consuming it in massive quantities.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

I can tell a difference.

Here is an expeirment. Take a pork butt and cook till 170. Its not pullable is it. However it is considered done.

The experiment would prove that pork but is not pullable at 170. Which has nothing to to with either low and slow or hot and fast. I am not sure what you are saying here but it looks like this from your description. No rudeness intended but respectfully I do not see a correlation between house temp and Internal temp

Billy Bones once said it best. He often says things we have all been doing but puts it into words. He said "I like to get the meat (in this case he was talking about ribs) up to 170 as quickly and efficiently as possible... and that means a house temp of around [300-325 i can't remember where it was.

I apply this truth to brisket and so do the Meccas of Brisket. Now I was told the same thing by Roy Perez, Edgar Schmidt before he died in late 90's, Nena Schmidt Sells and Rick Schmidt when I bussed at the old Kreuz. The words specifically were from Roy (Now pitmaster at the New Kreuz) that as far as tenderness it is not what happens to the Brisket before the stall as it is after the stall. This means literally that people can nearly grill their briskets to a point and end up challenging the low and slow masters in texture, tenderness and flavor. Blacks, Angelos, Muellers all feel the same way. They can get a 15 pounder done to just short of the blade in sometimes 4 to 6 hours then they park them a long time, often in piles or at muellers and taylor cafe inside their sausage smokers (low, slow and low smoke).

Zions... to which I have a video coming up, I see smoke the crap out of them... bring them in the kitchen and place in the oven or turkey cooker for low and slow, then peel off the thick fat... and place BACK on the overly smokey pit for a time again... we all know they are good... I cannot confirm what their temp is because no one knows. I might volunteer for them though soon and find out. Now I will say this... the quality of wood they used was crappy stuff that looked to be waterlogged once and I would never use (but wow does it work for them).... also, they pretty much keep the firebox door open I think it was removed... so it has to be a hot temp. For those that want to creep up the collagen fat thing... this does not happen until the internal temp of the BRISKET reaches a point it begins to cry.

I had a person that lost my ashcroft 5 inch gauges on my Brazos Pit and we have been doing 30 briskets BY SOUND!!!!!!! Beginning our timing usually after severral hours when 30 briskets begin to weep their fat and the juices hit my static diverter body.... you know how you listen for when popcorn speeds up its detonation then slows down... it like that but reversed near the end... we literally listen to the sound of the briskets and when they begin to really weep (we listen at each door) we time maybe 2 to 3 hours and then bank or park them after that.

Please expand more on this. Also Grilling as said before has nothing to do with the thread at all... but its a common error. We are tlaking about hot and fast... not grilling. So your opinion would need to be based on a comparison of low and slow versus hot and fast not low and slow and grilling... or deep frying (which is my favorite way to cook ribs after they are smoked LOL)

Is having to do bbq low and slow a myth?

As to the person that said THE TYPE OF WOOD USED TO SMOKE HOT AND FAST MATTERS.... nothing truer has been said in this thread I will tell you. Smoking with briquets in my smoker (which uses about 60 pound in one smoke) produces more of a roast like brisket with a slight smoke tinge but a great ring.

But when I use say, live oak logs exclusively.... it taste like BBQ... PERIOD... there is and has been no debate.

TWO EXAMPLES

Against the grain has a good example, he and I belong to another charity org that does their smokes by the ton...., anyway they have this one oyler spinner smoker that they computerized and gassed up with a blower... now these 8000 lbs plus units are designed to plop 14 logs on and go for 18 hours on aspiration alone.... so when I saw this thing I looked at Jim and was like "this ought to be interesting"

Sure nuff, from what Jim said all that gas and blower made such a clean burn there was hardly any smoke flavor... plus the smoke there was was blow stright up the flue.
So he cut all that crap off and made some great cue again he told me.

Now also... Phil has mentioned several times that Myron Mixon of Jacks old south uses green wood I think and burns his Que with sickening white smoke all the time... but we all know his Que is wonderful. Perhaps Phil can tell us what he smokes at... Id like to know as I am not sure. But that is some great cue he makes

 

[Meat Burner]

Fat Guy, no offense but I don't think blasting low and slow in such a bold statement is appropriate. Some of the low and slow has to to with enjoyment of our love for Q. There is always more than one way to skin a cat but don't bash it because you don't want to "waste your time". You may not get it. I'm still a poor guy. Don't get mad a me brother. Just a thought.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

Fat Guy, no offense but I don't think blasting low and slow in such a bold statement is appropriate. Some of the low and slow has to to with enjoyment of our love for Q. There is always more than one way to skin a cat but don't bash it because you don't want to "waste your time". You may not get it. I'm still a poor guy. Don't get mad a me brother. Just a thought.

Yes, I agree and I would like to thank the poster of this thread for the WAY he put it... is HAVING to cook low and slow a myth?

This forced us to address the two methods in a mode in which we tried as well as we could to NOT just make it about preference. Sure there was the occasional comments about grilling which has nothing to do with this, but once again, we have seen, and I have seen plenty of low and slow recipes, and techniques match the quality of hot and fast. But it takes actually more ingenuity overall to low and slow... your prep, rubs, slathers marinades, injections, foilings, fire, temps all an elaborate dance that gets you there.

But for someone that never hot and fast I guess you have to nix the foiling, marinades, injections and mod your wood and rubs to cook right so thats effort too to get that down.

 

[Meat Burner]

My wifey and I did a fast 5 lb butt a couple weeks ago. Cranked the UDS to about 325 for 5 hours, no foil, wrapped in a cooler for about an hour. One of the best tasting, tender cooks I have ever done. Another way of getting to the same end point. Sometimes I just simply enjoy low and slow and enjoy the result. My point....sometimes you need to let your heart beat a little slower and enjoy your passion. There is no one best way...so appreciate the way your brothers and sisters want to do.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yes, I agree and I would like to thank the poster of this thread for the WAY he put it... is HAVING to cook low and slow a myth?

And that's the reason I worded it that way. I've always been told that tougher cuts of meat HAD TO BE cooked "low and slow".

 

[kickassbbq]

I personally do not think the meat can tell. Tissue breaks down at a certain temerature, not time.
It's all about the internal temperature of the meat. It's done when it's done!!!
No rocket science here.
Hot cooker - gets done quicker.
Cool cooker - takes longer.
But, then again, I don't know Jack Didley about anything.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

And that's the reason I worded it that way. I've always been told that tougher cuts of meat HAD TO BE cooked "low and slow".

Yes and obviously, since in this thread we have gone through the differences between low and hot and fast... this is a myth, or untrue. They in fact, do not nor never did... once again... hot and fast is not grilling

I personally do not think the meat can tell. Tissue breaks down at a certain temerature, not time.
It's all about the internal temperature of the meat. It's done when it's done!!!
No rocket science here.
Hot cooker - gets done quicker.
Cool cooker - takes longer.
But, then again, I don't know Jack Didley about anything.

Excellent choice of words... I think this is what the folks at Kreuz were telling me way back in the late 80s early nineties... (of course at my age then I did not care and as a result went down the low and slow path for years) the meat cares not about the house temp, that is until the stall or ITemp of about 160-170 occurs then it matters a lot what you do.