Is 165 OK For Overnight Cook?

[darita]

There are many ways to get to a finished product, some of which may not be as good as some others. I think there is a tendency for some folks to form into 'camps' surrounding certain techniques. One of them is certainly to go as low as possible on temps to get a maximum smoke ring and smoke flavor. I am not sure this is even true, but, it is out there. Others believe that going very low at first leads to a more tender product.

All of this may, or may not be true, but there is certainly a risk in going that low with the temperature. Speaking just for me, I would feel terrible if someone I cooked for got sick. Botulism or salmonella can knock an adult down for several days (trust me here, I know), it can outright kill a child, I just can't countenance that risk against an extra 1/16" of smoke ring or a skosh more tenderness. I think part of this is the creation of pellet cookers with thermostat controls that allow more people to cook at ultra-low temperatures with little to no attention. If you were to try and keep a stick burner or charcoal smoker at 180F and no lower for 15 to 20 hours, you would find that temperature to be hard to manage.

So what temp do more traditional smokers consider to be a good smoke temp? And you're right, by GMG will maintain 150 as long as I'm feeding it pellets, with no problem.
I'm also curious as to whether or not anyone here has experienced or known anyone who has gotten sick from their slow smoked foods. I haven't been around smoking long enough to know.

 

[rabeb25]

225-250f.

 

[bluetang]

Without a cure( sodium nitrite), cook at at least 200*F. You will kill the bugs at 165+IT, but the toxins that they produced during the critical temperatures can send you to bed if lower cook temps are used. Do you play roulette? Not me.

 

[landarc]

Most of use go 225F and up, once you get above 250F you are considered to be on your way to hot BBQ cooking. Note that is not hot by kitchen standards. I actually do most of my cooking at 250F and up, 225F is mostly for ribs with me.

Did you notice in my previous post about 'trust me on this'? Indeed, I have gotten sick twice on bad BBQ, neither of my own cooking. Once was at a local smokehouse, I got incredibly sick, I mean hospital sick, on a smoked chicken that was not properly smoked. The other time was from a vendor, three days of agony, although I now know, when food poisoning hits, start drinking Gatorade. I went back and talked with both guys, the chicken guy said 'no way' it was his chicken, that he cooked low and slow for 8-10 hours, I asked him at what temp and he said under 200F, that he knew what he was doing. The other guy said his fire died and he decided he couldn't waste the meat and that anyway, I was the only guy complaining. If it wasn't for it being a felony, I would have hit both of these guys in the head with a bat.

 

[smokedinvt]

I was just looking on the usda website and they say pork has to get to an IT of 160 or better to be safe. At 165, you are going to be a long, long time to get there with a pork butt. I would go higher - 200 or above. You will still have a long, long smoke at that temp.
Keep us posted on what you choose to do and how it comes out!

 

[jestridge]

I like 275-300

 

[RedPig]

You are literally 'playing with fire' trying to cook at 165, for any length of time. I have done 180 for a few hours on my fast eddy in hopes of getting more smoke flavor. Pellet smokers can manage low temps fairly well but I think it would be a challenge maintaining such a low temp and expect consistency using charcoal/wood. You are walking a thin line with the low temp plus also risking a flameout burning so low.

 

[Stacks]

I have to agree with the prevailing wisdom here. I run a stick burner and make every effort to keep temps between 225 and 250 on everything except chicken. I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between meat cooked at 225 and meat cooked at 180 (tenderness, smoke ring, etc) until a few hours later when someone gets sick Not worth the chance

 

[Dave Russell]

Good eye. I meant to say 240. I actually think that the UDS is hotter in the middle than at the side, where the thermo is.......

Duh, should've figured you were talking about a UDS.

 

[darita]

Do these temps and rules also apply to pork ribs? Should not be going lower than 225 for ribs as well?

 

[landarc]

I consider 225F to be the perfect temperature for ribs. No higher, no lower.

 

[quarters69]

Not worth getting anybody sick We cook at 225 to 235 , better be safe than sorry:-D

 

[RedPig]

If it's raw pork, no matter the cut, I generally follow USDA recommendations. I will bend some on food finishing temps, but err on the side of caution concerning safety of food and proper temp. 165 is closer to cold smoking. We're not discussing that here though. Just anywhere around 225-275 works for me. :thumb:

 

[CBQ]

OK...someone on another forum said that it's the final temp that I should be concerned with because that's the temp that kills any bacteria new or old. Tell me why this reasoning is faulty? I'm not arguing here at all, I just want to make sure I understand what is safe and why and I know you guys are the experts.

You are not just worried about live bacteria. Some active bacteria leave behind toxins that will cause food poisoning. Even if the finishing temp kills them off, the toxins are still there. That is part of the reasoning behind the 4 hour danger window. You don't want the bacteria to have enough time to breed and generate dangerous levels of toxins.

Smoke it for 2 hours at 180 to get that pellet cook on it, then run it at 225 until it's done. You can hold 4-6 hours in a cooler. Leave a probe in it. If the internal temp starts to head south of 165, throw it back on the cooker at 180 or so.

 

[darita]

You are not just worried about live bacteria. Some active bacteria leave behind toxins that will cause food poisoning. Even if the finishing temp kills them off, the toxins are still there. That is part of the reasoning behind the 4 hour danger window. You don't want the bacteria to have enough time to breed and generate dangerous levels of toxins.

Smoke it for 2 hours at 180 to get that pellet cook on it, then run it at 225 until it's done. You can hold 4-6 hours in a cooler. Leave a probe in it. If the internal temp starts to head south of 165, throw it back on the cooker at 180 or so.

So it's OK to smoke at 180 for a couple of hours, then go up to 225 for the remainder? That would give enough time for me to get a good smoke on the butt, as long as it's still safe.

 

[darita]

This is no knock on Pelletheads.com, but I posed the same question over there and the vast majority of replies advised me that as long as the finish temp was 195, all bacteria would be killed and there's nothing to worry about. They said smoke at 180 till 140, then bring it up to 225 for the remainder and I will be fine.

 

[landarc]

I don't really understand the need to smoke at 180F to get a good smoke on a butt. I get excellent results and enough smoke on a butt by cooking at 250F, I see no need to ever be lower than 225F. As CBQ said above, it is not just the living bacteria you need to worry about. Maybe there is something peculiar to pellet smokers that requires that low a cook, although the times I have helped or observed a pellet cooker, they were working higher than 225F from the beginning.

 

[Mitch]

Depends on how much meat you put in the cooler. The more thermal mass the longer you can keep it in a cooler. A cambrio will hold it for a long time, maybe 6 hours. A camp cooler maybe 4 hours.

If it's just a butt or two, use a small cooler and wrap in several towels - that you don't want to use to bath/shower with.

You can also leave a digital probe thermometer in the meat and run the lead out of the cooler to the readout. When it gets to 170, if you need to keep it longer, better stick it in the oven on warm (aka 170).

 

[jetfxr27]

I use a Gatorade cooler with towels. Perfect for cayying butts, holds temps 4 hours plus. I put a probe thermometer in one of the butts and the indicator on very top. Amzing how long it stays hot.

What does evryone do when they wake up to a cooker at 165*. I have a couple times however it was inside the 4 hour window. Time to spring fpr the maverick with cooker alarm.

 

[Big_T_BBQ]

I don't really understand the need to smoke at 180F to get a good smoke on a butt. I get excellent results and enough smoke on a butt by cooking at 250F, I see no need to ever be lower than 225F. As CBQ said above, it is not just the living bacteria you need to worry about. Maybe there is something peculiar to pellet smokers that requires that low a cook, although the times I have helped or observed a pellet cooker, they were working higher than 225F from the beginning.

From what I've read on Pellet smokers they put out more smoke at lower temps (180) and nearly none at higher temps (275+) so people will a lot of smoke early then cook it with a little smoke.