IBCA Judging Rules Question

[YokeUp]

No response, or answer to the question I asked for specifics. I'm not surprized, in the heated discussion, resulting from my suggestions to improve the IBCA process to better prepare cooks for World Championships, I never once leveled any personal attacks. The IBCA officials did. When Lynn Shivers was challenged directly by my wife to come forward with specifics on how I had "slandered" the organization and promoters...the response was the same as to the emails you see above.... silence. Why? because there are none.

I remain stunned, that the BBQ world that supports the IBCA, does so with complete blindness. The organization's primary responsiblity is to "officiate" the CONTEST. The most important part of officiating, is Judging... and in the words of the President of the IBCA...they HAVE NO OFFICIAL JUDGE'S HANDBOOK! This is the height of organizational irresponsibility and it leaves the IBCA wide open to charges of corruption, deceit, manipulation and fraud. In the IBCA, the contest is judged at the whim of the local head judge, where he, or she, picks how to judge, how to score, how to break ties etc.... and who's to say, if the results don't come out the way they like, they just change the rules...Nothing in the IBCA governs the judging process! AND NONE OF THE RESULTS ARE PUBLISHED FOR INSPECTION - THEY ARE HELD SECRET BY THE IBCA.

For me, because I "asked" the questions and made the suggestions, I have been moved from good standing in the organization to NOT good standing.... I think it's their way of kicking me out. I'm fine with that. I have pulled out of the 4 remaining IBCA competitions I had paid for this year, including Ponchatoula which is literally 2 blocks from my house. It breaks my heart to do so, as I love many of the cooks who participate. I cannot, however, support, or be associated with an organization that has complete disregard for fairness, openness and responsible behavior.

My Mission in BBQ is to share the love of Jesus Christ to all. Being a Christian also means standing up for the truth, no matter how un-comfortable. Having brought to light, the very dark side of the IBCA, it was a fight, I didn't pick, or start. It is one, however, that I will remain firm in my convictions, and share that truth to all interested parties. My BBQ ministry is moving to legitimate BBQ sanctioned events where truth, honesty and openness is clearly a priority...as it should be. God bless you all and I'm here to answer any questions you have.

 

[Candy Sue]

Jeff, when you posted this statement on Facebook:

If you consider yourself a professional BBQ competitor and want to compete on the highest level, you need to participate, and perfect your BBQ in KCBS, not the IBCA. The IBCA is not recognized as a Nationally credible sactioning body by the National BBQ Rankings because of the lack of scoring results.

How could you not consider the consequences when you posted this? It's a slap in the face of IBCA! I don't know why the National BBQ Rankings should be the determining factor to rate a "credible sanctioning body" anyway. It sure doesn't relate to KCBS ToY standings. Does that mean that KCBS isn't credible? I don't think so. National BBQ Rankings is a cool site. It really has limited application for specific sanctioning ranking systems.

I cook at BBQ contests for many reasons. Mostly because I enjoy the comraderie of the other people who participate, whether organizers, judges, officials and/or other teams.

I always cook at least a couple IBCA contests a year. I think it does me good to try a different "system." Besides, look at some of the best KCBS cooks. They came out of a Texas competition system. You want to know why? These cooks have to learn how to cook so the meat is good cold, because generally that box is stone cold by the time it hits the finals table. If your product is good cold, it'll be stellar when warm!

Jeff, I'm sorry you're in this situation, but you earned it.

 

[YokeUp]

The truth is the truth Candy and that "slap" in the face is well deserved. The IBCA is a BBQ sanctioning organization that has no formal judging guidelines, no written perameters and subject the the preference of local IBCA officials... and then, the results are hidden.... and then, when you ask questions, they go on the personal attack mode. I've been targeting the judging system and the reporting of results.... not individuals, and for asking the questions, and making positive suggestions, I have been attacked... frankly, I welcome it. I stand on the truth and I always look to scripture for a guideline for what I do. I can find many, many examples in the bible of everything that has gone on here and I will stand firm on what I've done and will continue to do. There is a reason that there are whistleblower laws in this county, unfortunately, they don't apply to BBQ and who would have ever thought it was needed. That's the sadest part of this whole scenario... coverup, refusal to disclose information, personal attacks... doesn't sound family friendly to me. I hope God helps you see the truth here for what it is. God bless ya.

Jeff, when you posted this statement on Facebook:

If you consider yourself a professional BBQ competitor and want to compete on the highest level, you need to participate, and perfect your BBQ in KCBS, not the IBCA. The IBCA is not recognized as a Nationally credible sactioning body by the National BBQ Rankings because of the lack of scoring results.

How could you not consider the consequences when you posted this? It's a slap in the face of IBCA! I don't know why the National BBQ Rankings should be the determining factor to rate a "credible sanctioning body" anyway. It sure doesn't relate to KCBS ToY standings. Does that mean that KCBS isn't credible? I don't think so. National BBQ Rankings is a cool site. It really has limited application for specific sanctioning ranking systems.

I cook at BBQ contests for many reasons. Mostly because I enjoy the comraderie of the other people who participate, whether organizers, judges, officials and/or other teams.

I always cook at least a couple IBCA contests a year. I think it does me good to try a different "system." Besides, look at some of the best KCBS cooks. They came out of a Texas competition system. You want to know why? These cooks have to learn how to cook so the meat is good cold, because generally that box is stone cold by the time it hits the finals table. If your product is good cold, it'll be stellar when warm!

Jeff, I'm sorry you're in this situation, but you earned it.

 

[RangerJ]

While I find IBCA and the lack of data provided a bit frustrating at times, go cook an unsanctioned comp sometime and let me know how you feel about the hundred or so events IBCA puts on annually after that.

Weird though, the cooks who win regular in Texas / IBCA do pretty well on the KCBS circuit as well and I don't resemble either of those remarks. Which says perhaps I've over estimated the need for data or I need to learn to cook better.

Though I don't disagree with many of your comments, I find the comparison to the whistle blower law to be a bit of stretch as this remains, for about 97.5% of us, a hobby.

Good luck to you, Brother. KCBS in Bedford, Texas over Labor Day if your looking to travel.

 

[YokeUp]

I appreciate the feedback. From the start of all this, I have been focused on that portion of cooks who take the competition side very seriously. Sure, we love to have fun cooking with buddies, but we also have that strong competitive gene that drives us to reach the top of our sport. The World Champion level competitions (American Royal and Jack) are the showcase for our sports top competitors. I believe that the IBCA could be a fantastic training ground for success on a World champion stage and one day, I hope it is. For now, there are Administrative issues that are holding it back, and hopefully, they see the light and move forward.

I'd love to cook in Bedford, but Dallas is outside my driving range... Best of luck to you and God bless ya.

While I find IBCA and the lack of data provided a bit frustrating at times, go cook an unsanctioned comp sometime and let me know how you feel about the hundred or so events IBCA puts on annually after that.

Weird though, the cooks who win regular in Texas / IBCA do pretty well on the KCBS circuit as well and I don't resemble either of those remarks. Which says perhaps I've over estimated the need for data or I need to learn to cook better.

Though I don't disagree with many of your comments, I find the comparison to the whistle blower law to be a bit of stretch as this remains, for about 97.5% of us, a hobby.

Good luck to you, Brother. KCBS in Bedford, Texas over Labor Day if your looking to travel.

 

[YokeUp]

Ranger posted that he thought the IBCA cooks did well when they went up to the KCBS events..... I wondered about that and did some more research. Again, I'm talking to the cooks who want to be the BEST in BBQ, and that means performing at a World Class level. Last year's top 25 IBCA teams, the very BEST of the IBCA had a total of 3 teams go to the Jack and the American Royal.... at the Jack, the IBCA top 25 representatives came in - 12th, 63rd and 84th. At the American Royal, the top 25 IBCA teams came in 123rd, 57th and 118th. Now AGAIN, I'm not talking to those people who love to party, have a good time, and tailgate type event cookers, but I'm talking to the Professionals who seek the highest level in the World.... The analysis is simple... the IBCA focused cooking teams do NOT do well on the big stage and I believe with a different format, those results at the top competitions and IBCA focused teams would improve....

 

[Jorge]

Ranger posted that he thought the IBCA cooks did well when they went up to the KCBS events..... I wondered about that and did some more research. Again, I'm talking to the cooks who want to be the BEST in BBQ, and that means performing at a World Class level. Last year's top 25 IBCA teams, the very BEST of the IBCA had a total of 3 teams go to the Jack and the American Royal.... at the Jack, the IBCA top 25 representatives came in - 12th, 63rd and 84th. At the American Royal, the top 25 IBCA teams came in 123rd, 57th and 118th. Now AGAIN, I'm not talking to those people who love to party, have a good time, and tailgate type event cookers, but I'm talking to the Professionals who seek the highest level in the World.... The analysis is simple... the IBCA focused cooking teams do NOT do well on the big stage and I believe with a different format, those results at the top competitions and IBCA focused teams would improve....

I disagree. IBCA is no more responsible for those results, than they are when teams have success outside of IBCA. A cook or team will earn the success they deserve. When they don't the solution is to cook better. Period.

 

[YokeUp]

I disagree. IBCA is no more responsible for those results, than they are when teams have success outside of IBCA. A cook or team will earn the success they deserve. When they don't the solution is to cook better. Period.

The IBCA is not responsible, but they miss great opportunities to help cooks progress to, and perform well on the World class stage. The key word is "better"... what is "better" when you don't know where you are. If you were zero-ing in a scope for a new rifle and you couldn't see where the bullet hit, how would you know what adjustments to make? You wouldn't. KCBS is the standard, is the bulls-eye for World Class competitions and the more time you spend cooking to reach that standard, the more accurate and the "better" you will become, but you MUST have FEEDBACK, or you are shooting in the dark, wasting time and lots of Money!

Thanks for your feedback and God bless you

 

[Jorge]

The IBCA is not responsible, but they miss great opportunities to help cooks progress to, and perform well on the World class stage. The key word is "better"... what is "better" when you don't know where you are. If you were zero-ing in a scope for a new rifle and you couldn't see where the bullet hit, how would you know what adjustments to make? You wouldn't. KCBS is the standard, is the bulls-eye for World Class competitions and the more time you spend cooking to reach that standard, the more accurate and the "better" you will become, but you MUST have FEEDBACK, or you are shooting in the dark, wasting time and lots of Money!

Thanks for your feedback and God bless you

IBCA already gives you the opportunity to taste entries that made it to the final table. I'd suggest that there is already quite a bit of feedback.

 

[YokeUp]

IBCA already gives you the opportunity to taste entries that made it to the final table. I'd suggest that there is already quite a bit of feedback.

if that's all you want... you'll always be high and to the right and the farther the shot, the more you'll be off....

 

[Dustaway]

So what does the scores of kcbs tell you on a world class stage?

Thanks for the feedback and god bless you.

 

[YokeUp]

So what does the scores of kcbs tell you on a world class stage?

Thanks for the feedback and god bless you.

at least it's some direction, and when you compete with some of the top teams in the country, you can see where you stack up against them. If you're not interested in improving, you won't need to worry about feedback. God bless ya.

 

[hawg]

Tasting from the Final Table

Pardon my interruption. Others may have different information than me, but I was told personally by Ms. Shivers that the cookers DO NOT want their turn-in's made available to ANYONE after the judging and that many of the cookers want their turn-in trays returned after the judging, so that they DO NOT fall into the competition's hands. Nor do I see anything in the IBCA rules that call for the final table turn-ins to be made available to anyone.

Not trying to flame anyone, just my personal knowledge and observation.

 

[Jorge]

Pardon my interruption. Others may have different information than me, but I was told personally by Ms. Shivers that the cookers DO NOT want their turn-in's made available to ANYONE after the judging and that many of the cookers want their turn-in trays returned after the judging, so that they DO NOT fall into the competition's hands. Nor do I see anything in the IBCA rules that call for the final table turn-ins to be made available to anyone.

Not trying to flame anyone, just my personal knowledge and observation.

If that's the case, it is a change that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[YokeUp]

Pardon my interruption. Others may have different information than me, but I was told personally by Ms. Shivers that the cookers DO NOT want their turn-in's made available to ANYONE after the judging and that many of the cookers want their turn-in trays returned after the judging, so that they DO NOT fall into the competition's hands. Nor do I see anything in the IBCA rules that call for the final table turn-ins to be made available to anyone.

Not trying to flame anyone, just my personal knowledge and observation.

I never heard of any of this and was never told in the 20+ IBCA events I cooked in that it was an option for me to get my box back.. another example of irresponsible administration... Why is this even a topic of discussion? These issues and judging guidelines should be documented and distributed to all involved.... it's nothing but a free-for-all.

 

[Dustaway]

@yokeup In kcbs a score of 889877 in tenderness tells me what?

Thanks for the feedback and god bless

 

[YokeUp]

@yokeup In kcbs a score of 889877 in tenderness tells me what?

Thanks for the feedback and god bless

That's up to you to decide, and respond to however you want. You cooked it, you tasted it, and now you have the feedback. Toss it if you don't like it, or it isn't adding any value to you as a competitior... but it's YOUR CHOICE...you have the information.

 

[thillin]

Pardon my interruption. Others may have different information than me, but I was told personally by Ms. Shivers that the cookers DO NOT want their turn-in's made available to ANYONE after the judging and that many of the cookers want their turn-in trays returned after the judging, so that they DO NOT fall into the competition's hands. Nor do I see anything in the IBCA rules that call for the final table turn-ins to be made available to anyone.

Not trying to flame anyone, just my personal knowledge and observation.

They may want their boxes returned, but they would have to pick it up off the table after awards. I've tasted top 3 entries at most cooks I've done the past few years. Do we want people to know the flavor profile we used to win? Probably not, but nothing you can do except pick up the box after awards and leave with it.

(this is not directed towards anyone, just a general statement.)

Score feedback doesn't seem what it is cracked up to be. You know if your tenderness is off or spot on. You know if your turn in looks sloppy or not. That leaves taste, which is up to the few judges that taste your food that day. If I don't hit top 10, I could care less if it's final table or DAL. And I don't see how feedback could help a IBCA cook in the AR or Jack. Cook your best and if it's not good enough, ask for some help, work the judge tent or take a class.

 

[YokeUp]

They may want their boxes returned, but they would have to pick it up off the table after awards. I've tasted top 3 entries at most cooks I've done the past few years. Do we want people to know the flavor profile we used to win? Probably not, but nothing you can do except pick up the box after awards and leave with it.

(this is not directed towards anyone, just a general statement.)

Score feedback doesn't seem what it is cracked up to be. You know if your tenderness is off or spot on. You know if your turn in looks sloppy or not. That leaves taste, which is up to the few judges that taste your food that day. If I don't hit top 10, I could care less if it's final table or DAL. And I don't see how feedback could help a IBCA cook in the AR or Jack. Cook your best and if it's not good enough, ask for some help, work the judge tent or take a class.

You may, or may not find any value in your scores, but it should be your decision on how you use it, and the scores should be given to you. What is the value in NOT giving the scores to the participants? How does NOT showing the teams, how they were judged, just leaving it up to them to guess...good for the sport? You could argue that it is good for the recreational participants... so they aren't offended, or maybee they mis-interpret the results... but for the cooks who are serious? Tell me of another Sport where you are judged, but not shown the scores? Integrity is a very valuable thing and information transparancy is where it starts with the IBCA..KCBS has no issue with it, because they understand why it's important. IBCA will remain a minor league player until they see the error of their ways, repent and do the right thing by the cooking teams.

 

[Dustaway]

Reads like you just want to chew on a rawhide bone against ibca.:blah::blah::blah: