I gotta complain just a bit here......

[abangs]

Ok. In reading all of these responses, it boils down to this: I should not have used the word "prick" and I apologize....and It's one big crap shoot on the judging!! I still would like to see some accountability for scores that are far off from the others...maybe require the judge to fill out a quick comment card if the score is much lower than the others.....for example if all of the T&T scores are 8's and 9's and one throws 6's....I think that would be fair. On the other side of the coin, if all judges throw 6's and 7's then I think those scores would speak for themselves.

 

[Texana]

....... In Texas they don't have certified judges and it seems to work pretty darn good.......

This Texas competitor wants to say thank you Ford .....

 

[Texana]

this is a valid point.

BUT,

entries are judged individually, NOT comparatively.

I agree with this in theory ... but not in practicality .... It is the rare judge that can not judge one piece of meat from the one he/she just judged .... and I feel that applies to CBJ's as well as our Texas off the street judges .... people like what they like and in the end if it's not up to their standards the scores reflect it .....

I cant explain it but thats just the way it is ...

 

[Texana]

Ok. In reading all of these responses, it boils down to this: I should not have used the word "prick" and I apologize....and It's one big crap shoot on the judging!! I still would like to see some accountability for scores that are far off from the others...maybe require the judge to fill out a quick comment card if the score is much lower than the others.....for example if all of the T&T scores are 8's and 9's and one throws 6's....I think that would be fair. On the other side of the coin, if all judges throw 6's and 7's then I think those scores would speak for themselves.

I think that your idea is excessive ..... I mean after all if you make him fill out a comment card and you dont agree with his comments what are you going to do next .... have him shot?

It's bbq competition people. It is not a competition for a Nobel Peace prize ..... we have all recvd good scores for bad product and I dont see any bitching about that .... so it only stands to reason we are going to get bad scores on occasion for good product ..... in the end it's a wash ......

The good new is this ... there will be another event next weekend and we get to do it all over again ..... besides if was easy every one would do it and where would the fun be then ..... ????

 

[huminie]

I try not to get too wound up about scoring discrepancies. I focus my energy on trying to cook better each contest. At least that is something I can control.

 

[Jorge]

This Texas competitor wants to say thank you Ford .....

I alluded to that. Guess I'm already branded as a renegade


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harbormaster]

If you want to see a score that reflects an out of touch judge, you need to check out my thread here if you haven't already.

 

[Sledneck]

I think it should be a requirement that all certified judges (any sanctioning body) should be required to cook at least one event in entirety in order to judge so that when he gives a 7 in appearance where the others gave 9's, then maybe, just maybe he'll think twice and score it at least an 8. Same goes for the prick that gave me 6's in t&t where the others were 8's & 9's. Thank goodness for KCBS dropping the lowest score.

Sorry for the rant, but if your a certified judge, and your one of these guys..do the rest of us cook teams a favor and go cook an event.

I'm going with the flip side. how do you know the "prick" wasn't a reg comp cook? I don't judge but would it be crazy to think that a cook with be more critical of your food? Or perhaps disgruntled cook who has the " my food is way better than this stuff" attitude. Many, many variables, palates etc. Making a judge cook as a requirement imho will not make a much of a difference. They are not all ignorant, im sure theyve seen, read and heard what we do.

 

[boogiesnap]

I agree with this in theory ... but not in practicality .... It is the rare judge that can not judge one piece of meat from the one he/she just judged .... and I feel that applies to CBJ's as well as our Texas off the street judges .... people like what they like and in the end if it's not up to their standards the scores reflect it .....

I cant explain it but thats just the way it is ...

the end of your post sorta proves my point.

it's either good or not, regardless of what else you've tried.

 

[motoeric]

The only benefit I can see in having a judge cook with a team is that he will be sympathetic and appreciative of the work and expense that goes into competing.

Can you see any other benefit?

If that is the only benefit, I personally wouldn't want to see a 7 become a 9 due to sympathy and appreciation for effort.


Eric

 

[monty3777]

If KCBS wants a decent judging program that respects the time and money invested by competitors they would do well to emulate the Beer Judge Certification Program. Allow me to also restate that the notion that judges should 't talk to one another while judging is ridiculous. If there were some programmed interaction between judges before the final score is registered, as is the case in beer competitions, then the strange 6s amongst a bevy of 9s would be absolutely eliminated.

 

[monty3777]

If that is the only benefit, I personally wouldn't want to see a 7 become a 9 due to sympathy and appreciation for effort.


Eric

I'll take "sympathy" 9s all day long :becky::thumb:

 

[CTSmokehouse]

The only benefit I can see in having a judge cook with a team is that he will be sympathetic and appreciative of the work and expense that goes into competing.

Can you see any other benefit?

If that is the only benefit, I personally wouldn't want to see a 7 become a 9 due to sympathy and appreciation for effort.


Eric

I look forward to tasting your entries at the BBQ Brethren Battle of the BBQ Brethen in LI in Manorville....

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

 

[Capn Kev]

I'm not necessarily in agreement that a CBJ should have to cook with a team, but I am totally in favor of tracking individual judge's scores in a database and analyzing their trends. We all know there are certain judges that seldom give out a score above a 7 regardless of how good they think it is, even if everyone else at the table is handing out 9s. Sussing out those judges, and either re-educating them or getting them out of the pool would be in the best interest of everyone involved.

 

[Lake Dogs]

> If you read the critiques carefully, many of the reviews seem to be more in the line
> of "what I would do to make the box better".

Kapn, I think this is the brethren/judge trying to help the cook. Otherwise, for appearance, the answer is either "Yes, darned appetizing", or "No, not appetizing". The "No, not appetizing" doesn't help without articulating why and what might be done to improve.

> Also, a lot of speculation about tenderness and taste based on appearance.

See above. If it looks burned, it might not be burned, but it could be. Either way, if it "looks" burned it's therefore less appetizing. The person was simply trying to explain why it was less appetizing. Same goes for dry (wow, thousands of comments on brisket here), or over-cooked (a brisket falling apart), or under-cooked (in our recent pork debate), etc. Otherwise they'd simply say "it doesnt look appetizing to me", and that's not very helpful, is it?


To abangs, I know it's extremely frustrating to get scores all over the place. I am however of the opinion that 7's-9's isn't all over the place, but 6's-9's is. However, it happens, frequently too. Part of it is that different pieces look, taste, and are different even in feel/moisture. Also, beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I've seen money muscles displayed so that they look like a penis; something like this gets scores from 5's to 9's. Did the judges giving the 9's not see it, or did they see it and have a sense of humor, or did they see it and think "I want me some of that"? I dont know the answer... I've seen pork with brown sauce put in 6 very neat piles. Half of the judges loved it, the other half though they looked like something the cat yak'd up. I had one where I was that lone judge. They opened the box and I (apparently I was the only one) had to do a double take and look VERY hard. They didnt look like chicken; they looked like potatoes, literally.

Anyway, my point is this; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's subjective, more than we'd like to think.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I think it should be a requirement that all certified judges (any sanctioning body) should be required to cook at least one event in entirety in order to judge so that when he gives a 7 in appearance where the others gave 9's, then maybe, just maybe he'll think twice and score it at least an 8. Same goes for the prick that gave me 6's in t&t where the others were 8's & 9's. Thank goodness for KCBS dropping the lowest score.

I am going to be totally honest. Judges have different opinions about what is good and what is not good. No matter what the spread of scores it seems that the cream always rises to the top and the best team wins. Thats why teams like Pellet Envy, Quau Lotta Bull etc. always seem to win.

Making it a requirement for a judge to cook a contest is rediculous. You decided to cook BBQ competitively and spent the money and time to do so. I personally see no reason why a judge should be forced to cook a contest because you don't like your scores.

I think that if you can't handle the scores that you get at a competition and choose to disparage the judges you should choose another hobby.

 

[bover]

I'm not necessarily in agreement that a CBJ should have to cook with a team, but I am totally in favor of tracking individual judge's scores in a database and analyzing their trends. We all know there are certain judges that seldom give out a score above a 7 regardless of how good they think it is, even if everyone else at the table is handing out 9s. Sussing out those judges, and either re-educating them or getting them out of the pool would be in the best interest of everyone involved.

Rumor has it that the new scoring software currently contracted out for development by KCBS will have some sort judge tracking component. What all that involves is anyone's guess, but my hope is that it's exactly what you just stated. In conjunction with that I'm of the opinion that there should definitely be some continuing education program for all CBJs. Even just a simple online rules and procedures document that you have to acknowledge as having read would be beneficial. There are a lot of judges out there still operating under the "old" method of scoring and lots operating under the "new". In order to maintain the program's integrity, some consistency would really be nice.

That being said, there will always be cooks that think their scores are too low (ever hear of a cook complaining when their scores were actually too high? it happens, but no mention of it) and there will always be judges that don't adhere to the procedures fully. All we can do is try to reduce the frequency of those occurrences and I believe more education and patience on both sides is the best way to do that.

 

[big brother smoke]

let's not rake the brother over the coals for venting out loud here :becky:

 

[Muzzlebrake]

No matter what the spread of scores it seems that the cream always rises to the top and the best team wins. Thats why teams like Pellet Envy, Quau Lotta Bull etc. always seem to win.

and they also get out of wack scores from time to time. Scottie from CSC just commented on how he got a 4 at the Sam's Club event


I do like the Texan's idea of shooting the low scoring judge though!:twisted: In the Northeast we have much more stringent gin control laws, so we may need to have them shackled and stoned on the town square but same general idea..........

 

[Capn Kev]

No matter what the spread of scores it seems that the cream always rises to the top and the best team wins. Thats why teams like Pellet Envy, Quau Lotta Bull etc. always seem to win.

To some extent yes. But when consistent winners like the names you mention above get whacked by a "rogue" judge, do you think they're happy with it? This last weekend Johnny Trigg took 41st out of 47 teams in Ribs. Something tells me that the cream didn't quite make it to the top that day. I'm sure if you ask Alexa from R&Q about some their scores this past weekend, I'm sure she will have some categories that were a bit jacked up. Talent does rise, but one "rogue" judge can cost a team thousands of dollars.