First (and probably last) time judging

[Slamdunkpro]

I agree. I'm not saying they were completely worthless. I just think they had to be tweeked for them to be useful for the cooks. I cooked about 10 contests last year that had them. I received about 4 comments. Yummy tells me nothing... As I really hope it's "yummy" or else I shouldn't be competing. But it doesn't really tell me anything as a cook though...

This is something they should teach and emphasize in the judge's classes; how to give meaningful feedback. I wanted to leave feedback on a couple of entries at my last judging experience: One entry was good except it had an odd bitter after taste that spoiled the experience. I though one entry was over salted, but otherwise spot on and I would have liked to have been able to communicate that this is what cost them a 9 in my opinion. There is no reason that the judge's sheet can't be a half sheet instead of a quarter and that table captains can't review the comments. I also think that some interaction between the judges during the actual judging would help to even out some of the "I don't like sweet/hot/vinegar/whatever issues.

 

[Smokin Gator]

There were two things that I got out of my judging class that helped me greatly as a judge:

Think of Sonny's (a BBQ chain) as a 7. Go up or down from there based on your opinion of the entry.

Judge the entry for what it is. If it is a sweet entry then judge it as a sweet entry. If it is a spicy/hot entry then judge it as a spicy/hot entry.

When I judge I really try to follow those guidelines, especially the second one. Whether I like sweet BBQ, spicy BBQ, sauced or unsauced Q should not make any difference.

 

[Divemaster]

I agree. I'm not saying they were completely worthless. I just think they had to be tweeked for them to be useful for the cooks. I cooked about 10 contests last year that had them. I received about 4 comments. Yummy tells me nothing... As I really hope it's "yummy" or else I shouldn't be competing. But it doesn't really tell me anything as a cook though...

This is something they should teach and emphasize in the judge's classes; how to give meaningful feedback. I wanted to leave feedback on a couple of entries at my last judging experience: One entry was good except it had an odd bitter after taste that spoiled the experience. I though one entry was over salted, but otherwise spot on and I would have liked to have been able to communicate that this is what cost them a 9 in my opinion. There is no reason that the judge's sheet can't be a half sheet instead of a quarter and that table captains can't review the comments. I also think that some interaction between the judges during the actual judging would help to even out some of the "I don't like sweet/hot/vinegar/whatever issues.

I agree with both of you. "Yummy" don't tell me chit... "There was a odd after taste" tells me where I should look...

I'm not asking for just any feed back, I want some thing that is constructive. If I bring a rib to Scotty, I'm expecting him to give me the kind of feedback that he would expect from me.

 

[Podge]

if you cook "sweet", "hot", "salty", etc.. don't get mad and be surprised if a judge thinks it's too sweet, too hot, or too salty and your score reflects it. Their definition of each can be different than yours. If I tasted something too hot, or whatever, i'd mark it down.

 

[Smokin Gator]

I agree that if I go way out on a limb then I should not be surprised if it gets marked down. I disagree that it should be marked down if it is "too hot, or whatever."

 

[Sledneck]

There were two things that I got out of my judging class that helped me greatly as a judge:

Think of Sonny's (a BBQ chain) as a 7. Go up or down from there based on your opinion of the entry.

If sonnys is a 7 then i should be getting 180' s in every category:biggrin:

 

[Smokin Gator]

Sonny's chicken=better than 13th!!!

 

[CajunSmoker]

I agree with most of what's been already said here, but if you give me a big chunk of burnt, fatty brisket and expect a high score your going to be disappointed.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Two things:

Sweet/hot/tangy sauce is a neutral to me depending on how it balances on the product however if all I taste is sweet to the exclusion of all else where it becomes the dominate flavor then yes you are going to lose points. It's BBQ, not a Snickers bar.

I think a lot of this comes down to whether or not a cook uses TOO much sauce, not the fact that the sauce is sweet in the first place. You're right - it should balance on the product.

But in regards to judges preferences, I like spicy BBQ though I'd never turn it in at comps because it would turn off too many judges but as a cook, that's my right to do or not to do. However, as a judge, you have to judge what's given to you regardless of personal preference. "It's BBQ, not a Snickers bar", while humorous, is not cool. "Sweet" is a style of BBQ. You can't turn up your nose at it. Now if it were sour or tasted like cream chicken gravy (hey Guy... there's a sauce for your comp chicken! :twisted or something way out of the ordinary, I can see it not being acceptable... maybe. Again, it's up to the cook what he turns in as long as it's within the legal guidelines. I recall one of our members here telling me at the Jefferson City, MO comp in 2007 that he was angered when he spoke with a judge after the awards who said he prefers Carolina style sauces and judged down anyone who used a sweet KC style sauce. That is SO wrong and judging down for a sweet sauce just because you personally don't like it is wrong as well. My opinion is that if a judge cannot at least appreciate ANY style of BBQ and at least know what is a good example of that style is (whether it happens to be his or her favorite or not), he or she should not be judging BBQ contests.

 

[Smokin Gator]

if a judge cannot at least appreciate ANY style of BBQ and at least know what is a good example of that style is (whether it happens to be his or her favorite or not), he or she should not be judging BBQ contests.

Exactly!!!

 

[Merl]

The second paragraph of the instructions and rules for judges played on the CD at every contest reads as follows:

"These procedures are intended to provide the standards you should use in judging this
contest. Remember, as a KCBS judge, you are not judging by what you like, but you are​

judging to the standards defined by KCBS at this contest."

It is not about what a judge likes. Did the cook do a good job preparing the entry? Do the rubs and sauce complement the meat? Did the cook attain excellence? If the answers are yes, give it the score it has earned.

I do not like Indian food. I can judge it. I can tell when it is prepared and cooked to perfection. I can score it accordingly, even though it will never be my favorite taste and style of cooking. That is what is taught and expected of every CBJ!

Merl

 

[Slamdunkpro]

However, as a judge, you have to judge what's given to you regardless of personal preference. "It's BBQ, not a Snickers bar", while humorous, is not cool. "Sweet" is a style of BBQ. You can't turn up your nose at it.

You are totally distorting my point - I never said I mark down sweet, I said " if all I taste is sweet to the exclusion of all else where it becomes the dominate flavor then yes you are going to lose points." The same could be said for spicy, vinegar, or any flavor combination.

 

[Rick's Tropical Delight]

sooooooo, which comp was the original poster judging?

i would appreciate some feedback from the judges that judged my turn-ins.

look at my chicken numbers and tell me you wouldn't wonder.

anyway, i knew this would happen and that's why i was hesitant on competing in my first comp at all. seems it's all taken too seriously, but now i understand why.

 

[Smokin Gator]

You are totally distorting my point - I never said I mark down sweet, I said " if all I taste is sweet to the exclusion of all else where it becomes the dominate flavor then yes you are going to lose points." The same could be said for spicy, vinegar, or any flavor combination.

I still disagree if you deem that is what the entry was going for.

 

[Smokin Gator]

The only way I can think of at the moment is to present it like this... Perhaps the most regionalised BBQ sauce is the mayonnaise sauce in Alabama. If what some of you say is fine, then a judge in that area should only give high scores to chicken with that sauce. Is that correct??

 

[CajunSmoker]

My few judging experiences have had judges from all over the country so most all tastes were represented.

But I still try to cook for the middle of the road, not too sweet, not too spicy to try to appeal to the most tastes. I almost want to call it the lowest common denominator.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I still disagree if you deem that is what the entry was going for.

How exactly does one determine that without talking to the cook prior to tasting? By this reasoning, an entry is no longer "over salted" it's "oven cured"; "flavorless" becomes "mild" or "natural"; "hotter than the bowels of hades and nothing else but fire" becomes "robust".

Let's take an extreme example: A cook pours HFCS and red dye #2 into a bowl and mixes to make their "sauce". By my judging methodology, I taste and evaluate based on the KCBS process of "It's sweet BBQ, is it good sweet bbq? Answer: No, it tastes like HFCS and nothing else - lose points. I'm not marking it down because it's sweet BBQ, but because it's BAD sweet BBQ.

Another example is where you get a sample and it's clearly a vinegar based BBQ but the flavor is so unbalanced with acidity from the vinegar that it's not good vinegar based BBQ - it's almost glass cleaner - mark down. Again it's not marked down because it's vinegar based, but it's BAD vinegar based.

And yes, as the judge it is my prerogative to deem the cook's intent based on the product I sample and score it accordingly. That is the system we have chosen to compete under.

 

[Mo-Dave]

This past weekend I recieved these numbers for tenderness on my chicken.
8-9-7-9-8-5

Im thinking judge #6 had dull teeth.:mrgreen:

Just a thought, the judge that gave you a 5 may have gotten a piece that was a little more dry or over cooked. Same goes for the judge that give a 7, only they were being nice. The rest of the judges may have had good pieces, but only a little better than 7 and 5 and were a lot more forgiving:wink:
Dave

 

[BigdogKC]

How exactly does one determine that without talking to the cook prior to tasting? By this reasoning, an entry is no longer "over salted" it's "oven cured"; "flavorless" becomes "mild" or "natural"; "hotter than the bowels of hades and nothing else but fire" becomes "robust".

Let's take an extreme example: A cook pours HFCS and red dye #2 into a bowl and mixes to make their "sauce". By my judging methodology, I taste and evaluate based on the KCBS process of "It's sweet BBQ, is it good sweet bbq? Answer: No, it tastes like HFCS and nothing else - lose points. I'm not marking it down because it's sweet BBQ, but because it's BAD sweet BBQ.

Another example is where you get a sample and it's clearly a vinegar based BBQ but the flavor is so unbalanced with acidity from the vinegar that it's not good vinegar based BBQ - it's almost glass cleaner - mark down. Again it's not marked down because it's vinegar based, but it's BAD vinegar based.

And yes, as the judge it is my prerogative to deem the cook's intent based on the product I sample and score it accordingly. That is the system we have chosen to compete under.

You are making a statement that someone competing would basically dip their entry in sugar, which is not correct. I see what you are saying and I agree with your point. I beleive that Gator is looking at it from the perspective that no one at a contest would do such a thing. They may however use a sweet sauce that as a judge you may deem too sweet for your taste. As a judge you are not supposed to judge them poorly simply because you think it is too sweet. If its candy, then ok...but nobody is going to try and put candy on BBQ...at least I hope not. The point is you have to judge on the quality of the Q, not your personal taste.

 

[The_Kapn]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sir Smoke A Lot has the balls to post a frank thread about his judging experience.

He is attacked--no other word for it!

He is a cook and a judge.
Most of what he says is right on.

I am a bit, no-- I am really, embarrassed by the Brethren here!

TIM