Corned Beef Cure help........

[airedale]

A couple more thoughts:

1) When I cut a piece of meat "in half" I weigh the pieces separately and mix the cure accordingly. This is probably lunatic fringe behavior but it only costs me a little time.

2) Accurate measurement of a few grams of cure is quite a challenge for a scale that will also measure several pounds. A little like using a jerrycan as an eye dropper. So I use a powder scale from my reloading bench that is designed to measure small quantities. To @thirdeye's point, too, powder scales typically come with a calibration check weight.

 

[IamMadMan]

Thanks again, Madman. These calculators are exactly what I'm looking for. I do have a little scale that I use to weigh my meats that I got off of amazon. I'll cure it piece by piece or just do the whole belly in one of those pans.

What are the proper ratios of salt and sugar to cure that you recommend? I'm trying to get this broken down to a "per pound" recipe that I can just multiply based on the weight of the meat.

Most scales have a "MODE" button which allows you to toggle between Pounds, Ounces, and Grams.

One of the on-line cure calculators I posted will also convert your pounds of meat to grams. Or you can simply multiply the weight of the meat in pounds by 453.59237 to get the weight in grams.

The reason the metric scale is desired for curing, is that there are 28.3495 grams in an ounce, it just makes a more exact weight to work with.

Getting back to your other question,
Salt - the common ratio is 3% (Multiplier .03)
sometimes I use a 2.5% ratio (Multiplier .025) for a less salty product.
Multiply the meat in grams to get your desired amount of salt.

Sugar - the ratio is 1.25% (Multiplier .0125) but can be adjusted accordingly.
Multiply the meat in grams to get your desired amount of sugar.


FYI
Salt is necessary to transport the curing agent into the meat and the salt ratio content can vary anywhere from 2.5% to 4% when curing. The higher end of that scale produces a very salty product, while the low end is much lower in salt. Salt content can vary anywhere within that range, but many prefer the 3% ratio.

Sugar helps to cut the salty edge in taste of the final product and can vary greatly in any recipe. Sugar can slightly slow the curing process if used in much larger ratios, but is not necessary for curing. It is strictly for rounding out and balancing the flavors (salty, sweet, savory). Sugar levels can be adjusted to an individuals personal taste without affecting the curing process.


EXAMPLE:
If you have a pork belly that weighs 1 Kilogram (1000 grams) the results would be as follows...

Weight of pork belly = 1000 grams

Salt - 1000 X .03 = 30 Grams of Salt
Sugar - 1000 X .0125 = 12.5 Grams of Sugar

You can add other spices/flavorings after the above ingredients have been weighed and mixed.

Just replace the 1000 with the actual weight in grams of each pork belly and multiply to get the required amount of each ingredient for each pork belly.

 

[cowgirl]

I haven't read through this whole thread.
:laugh: There are times when I prefer a combination cure. Inject with brine cure and coat the outer with a dry cure. :thumb:

 

[EdF]

Great calculator! However, it has me worried a bit. Based on the recipe I just did for my corned beef (5lbs of meat, 1.5gallons of water, 3tsp of #1, 6.5 wet brine) the recommended amount of #1 was almost double what I put in to get to 200ppm. Also, the curing time was considerable short for my 1.5-2" thick brisket flat at 3-5 days. So, what I did was wet brined to 100-125ppm.

I ate it. I haven't died yet. So, is the 100-125ppm ok?

Blonder knows his stuff. On the other hand, I've made corned beef, bacon and other stuff that was cooked fairly soon after the cure (a few days), and only the color suffered really. Michael Ruhlman has said in his Charcuterie book that it's optional for this kind of hot-smoked thing that's going into a refrigerator anyway.

 

[IamMadMan]

I lost the link to this recipe I am trying. It’s a cure and not a brine. I am going to smoke it. Just curious what you guys think. Do I rinse it well then smoke. Or smoke without rinsing? Or does anyone recognize the recipe? Been searching online for hours. I give up.... lol

Try this with a brisket flat.

3/4 cup kosher salt
1 tablespoon pink curing salt (Prague powder #1, NOT Himalayan pink salt, which is entirely different)
2 tablespoons brown sugar
2 tablespoons whole black peppercorns
1 tablespoon yellow mustard seeds
2 tablespoons whole coriander seeds
1 tablespoon allspice berries
6 whole cloves
1 tablespoon ground ginger
6 bay leaves, roughly torn

I agree you used a recipe calling for way too much pink salt. I would toss it as curing salts should be weighed as accurately as possible (I go by weight), but the point is with pink salt, you don't have much room for error, and we're talking food safety here.

Here are the two sources to that recipe you posted. It appears the first one used the second as a reference.

https://blog.thermoworks.com/2018/03/homemade-corned-beef-with-temperature-tips-for-success/

Just to let Wayne and Pstores know, that I did contact Thermoworks regarding their posted recipe and the amount of cure they had suggested. I showed them the math where 1 Tablespoon would have put the Cure # 1 on a 5 pound brisket over 600 PPM.

I got a very nice letter, thanking me for bringing this to their attention, their staff researched the references for use by the manufacturer and the FDA guidelines.

Yesterday they adjusted their recipe to reflect a proper amount of cure of just 1 teaspoon vs the 1 Tablespoon (3 teaspoons) previously listed.

Kudos to a company who is willing to research data and is open to make corrections to their material.

One correction on the web, but many more to go......
Finding a reliable recipe on the Internet becomes increasingly harder every day because there is a big difference between writing about curing and actually testing the recipe and doing it the proper way. There are many questionable recipes on the internet, just because they are out there, doesn't imply accuracy or safety of the resulting product(s). From many of these "bad" recipes we can clearly see that the author/poster has never properly calculated the ingredients let alone test the final product. Having a collection of recipes on a website does not make a person proficient in a new skill. You have to know the How and Why of curing; you have to know the rules that govern the process. The curing agent is simply just a tool, albeit a very important one. Once you understand why and how to properly calculate the ingredients, the rest will fall into place.

 

[airedale]

... From many of these "bad" recipes we can clearly see that the author/poster has never properly calculated the ingredients let alone tested the final product. ...

My favorite internet cartoon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog#/media/File:Internet_dog.jpg

 

[OklaDustDevil]

IamMadMan, for those of us looking to get into curing, etc., but who don't want to rely on unknown internet authors, can you recommend any definitive books or other written materials or sources from which we can learn these important principles, processes, and procedures? Can anyone else recommend any?

I really have enjoyed and learned a lot from the discussions and debates in this thread, but I'd like to get my hands on some original source materials on which I can rely.

 

[airedale]

IamMadMan, for those of us looking to get into curing, etc., but who don't want to rely on unknown internet authors, can you recommend any definitive books ...

I'm not the guru himself but I can recommend "Dry Curing Pork" by Hector Kent. It is oriented more toward sausage but Kent is a teacher by trade and the book is much more a tutorial than it is a cookbook. The first chapter, 36 pages, is pure tutorial including probably everything you want to know about sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate. The second chapter, entitled "Teaching Recipes" begins the transition to recipes. Each recipe is preceded by a page titled "What This Recipe Teaches." Bacon is not dried pork, but he covers it pretty well. He also covers traditional European hams preparation.

 

[IamMadMan]

IamMadMan, for those of us looking to get into curing, etc., but who don't want to rely on unknown internet authors, can you recommend any definitive books or other written materials or sources from which we can learn these important principles, processes, and procedures? Can anyone else recommend any?

I really have enjoyed and learned a lot from the discussions and debates in this thread, but I'd like to get my hands on some original source materials on which I can rely.

If you're really interested in curing meats or sausage making, then invest in one of these recommended books for sausage making and curing meats....



I would suggest doing some reading before you make the leap so you have an understanding of some of the processes...... Keep in mind there are many different types of sausages; some are made and cooked fresh, some contain a cure so they can be safely smoked, while others are cured and dried. It is important that you follow the recipe using exact amounts as well as the proper procedures to maintain a safe meat product. When in doubt read and read again, and ask questions if you need to.

There are many great books and guides on curing meat and sausage making. I am sure almost everyone who posts may have a few recommendations for books on the subject. In my opinion, these are by far the best books for basic and advanced sausage making. They start with the basics and move forward to help you master the craft of curing and sausage making. Contains true recipes before the use of chemical enhancers/additives, and fillers were added to stretch the amount of commercial production.

While there are many books out there that all contain enough information to get you off to a good start, there are a few books that I would highly recommend.


First Recommendation..

Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages by Stanley Marianski and Adam Marianski

This is a book that covers everything from making a smokehouse, to curing meats, and making sausage. Very easy to read with a great collection of recipes and techniques for the beginner. This book is actually two other books ("Meat Smoking And Smokehouse Design" and "Polish Sausages, Authentic Recipes And Instructions") combined into one single book plus more on making sausage and curing meats. Most are simple one Kilogram recipes, so you can make a small batch of the product before deciding to make a large batch. This also makes it easier to make a larger batches with easy multiples. The use of a metric scale in sausage making and curing makes the process much more accurate and provides a consistent product time after time.


Second Recommendation..

Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing by Rytek Kutas and Ben Kutas

This is often called the definitive book on sausage making. The explanation of how cures work, and what they are for, just this understanding to a beginner is worth the price of the book. However the smallest quantity the recipes is for ten pounds, so a beginner will have to properly calculate and scale down the recipes. The book is equally helpful to the beginner or the advanced. Some of these recipes are a little too salty for my taste, but I just make a note in the book and reduce the salt in the next batch. The book also contains a some stories that are entertaining. *** DO NOT BUY THE BOOK / DVD COMBO, in my opinion the DVD is completely worthless, even to a beginner, but that's just my personal opinion.


Third Recommendation..

Charcuterie: The Craft of Salting, Smoking, and Curing by Michael Ruhlman and Brian Polcyn

This is a great book, although it lightly touches the basics, I feel the book is more for an intermediate or advanced sausage maker. Most recipes are in five pound batches, but I suggest you scale them down to try them before making a large batch. You'll find that you will have to tweak a lot of the recipes to your individual liking / tastes. This book takes sausage to the next level with using some top shelf ingredients as well as some hard to find ingredients to make sausages that could be considered in the "gourmet" classification. Michael Ruhlman has many proven recipes, but you must have an understanding of the basics before you try to get into the gourmet type recipes contained herein.



Also keep in mind that there are many great resources on the World-Wide-Web (Internet), but reference books are always good for checking factual information when in doubt.

I would stress to all beginners to use only a tested and proven recipe from a reliable source, there are many recipes I have found on the Internet that I would have concerns about. Just because it's out there doesn't mean it is correct. Also the use of an electronic scale that also has a metric mode is an invaluable must have. The weighing of the cure is critical to food safety, so if everything is properly weighed and not measured, you will have a great product in the end.

Here is a brief guide to what basics are needed to make your own sausage.
http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/Sausage-making-equipment.html


Resources for tested recipes:

Wendliny Domowe - Meats and Sausage (Based on some of Marianski teachings/recipes):
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making

Len Paoli's Recipe site
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm

The Spicy Sausage
http://thespicysausage.com/sausagemakingrecipes.htm

Sausage Mania
http://www.sausagemania.com/tutorial.html

Lets Make Sausage
http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/Sausage-making-equipment.html

Sausage Making Org
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/

Northwest Smoking
http://web.archive.org/web/20010214020112/http:/home.att.net/~g.m.fowler/frame/Sausage1.htm

Sausage Recipes from Stuffer's Supply Company in British Columbia, Canada
https://kickam2.com/sausage/sausrecp.pdf

Sausages West
http://sausageswest.com/7-recipe-index/
http://sausageswest.com/sausage-mak...sts/not-sausage-making-home-page-close/index/

and so many more....

While I have found the above internet sources to be very good, always do your math, there is no substitution for checking someone else's work before you use it.


I have also dabbled in European Type hams that dry cure for a year, so I am going to order the book airedale suggested above just for that reason. The next time I post the list of books, it might be included with the other books if I find it to be helpful.


.

 

[OklaDustDevil]

Wow! Fantastic reference!! Thanks to both you and Airedale for the info!!!

 

[thirdeye]

Just to let Wayne and Pstores know, that I did contact Thermoworks regarding their posted recipe and the amount of cure they had suggested. I showed them the math where 1 Tablespoon would have put the Cure # 1 on a 5 pound brisket over 600 PPM.

I got a very nice letter, thanking me for bringing this to their attention, their staff researched the references for use by the manufacturer and the FDA guidelines.

Yesterday they adjusted their recipe to reflect a proper amount of cure of just 1 teaspoon vs the 1 Tablespoon (3 teaspoons) previously listed.

Kudos to a company who is willing to research data and is open to make corrections to their material.

One correction on the web, but many more to go......

It's good to hear Thermoworks corrected the recipe, and GREAT that someone actually sat down and double checked your math.... but from Thermoworks it doesn't surprise me. Why, you might ask? Well Thermoworks has been discussing the 7-log10 relative reduction in salmonella bacteria in the meat in at least two ARTICLES and they explain the USDA holding chart. If you are not familiar with this term, the USDA has a chart to support safe cooking temps, like 165°F for chicken. And using the 7-log 10 chart you can see that if you pull chicken breast at 157° and hold it for just 34 seconds, it's safe to eat. Even better it's moister and a tick more tender too. Of course Thermoworks sells thermometers, and good ones, so it makes sense to give someone a practical reason to have an accurate thermometer.

 

[thirdeye]

IamMadMan, for those of us looking to get into curing, etc., but who don't want to rely on unknown internet authors, can you recommend any definitive books or other written materials or sources from which we can learn these important principles, processes, and procedures? Can anyone else recommend any?

I really have enjoyed and learned a lot from the discussions and debates in this thread, but I'd like to get my hands on some original source materials on which I can rely.

OklaDustDevil, the Rytek Kutas is a good one, and has some really good photos some of which you might not expect to see, for example they show you the gland (which is somewhat rare to find) when boning a pork butt. It's so good I'm on my second copy.... not because I've worn it out, it's because some of the editions have a crummy binding causing the pages to fall out at will. I've purchased about 6 copies of this book as gifts and reminded my friends to lookout for the binding. Bottom line is.... the content is so good, the binding is secondary.

I was on the waiting list before Charcuterie was published and it's a good read. Some of Ruhlman's recipes are a little heavy handed with salt and cure, so keep that in mind. You can do your own calculations and make notes right in the margin. I read one book review that said something along the lines that Ruhlman is a better author than a charcutier.

 

[benski]

A most interesting read. I've been BBQing and grilling for a long time, and have never ventured into curing items like bacon at home. Home brined turkeys, roasts, etc., yes. So I'll read carefully, and take with whatever a grain of salt weighs, instructions, especially on the 'net.