Brisket Failure - Please Help

[Frank Mahovlich]

Upon further review, I concur with those who said ‘overcooked’ based on crumbling. Undercooked would be tough, overcooked would crumble.

There’s lots of great posters in this forum that will respond in short order, even if you post a question mid-cook. Stick with it- you’ll get it!

 

[sniperfx]

I made the mistake of getting the probe into the fat pocket once at a competition. I started freaking out because it was taking so long. Always double check with hand held probe. Best brisket I have ever made came from wally world. You just never know. Brisket is a fickle Bitch. Like Mother Nature.. You will get it, just keep practicing my friend!!!

 

[el luchador]

ill say it one more time, just in case it was missed.

brisket flat really needs a braise. it doesnt have enough fat to protect it during a long cook, and it is a thin piece of meat that drys out easily.

you learn how to braise and you never have another dry flat. even franklin bbq braises brisket.

thank me later

 

[CentralOhioBBQ]

ill say it one more time, just in case it was missed.

brisket flat really needs a braise. it doesnt have enough fat to protect it during a long cook, and it is a thin piece of meat that drys out easily.

you learn how to braise and you never have another dry flat. even franklin bbq braises brisket.

thank me later

Franklin braises brisket? I've walked the pit room at Franklins (pre-fire), I didn't see any evidence of that. Please elaborate.

 

[medic92]

I have to agree that it was probably overcooked, rather than undercooked. If you pulled it at 190 and the immediately wrapped in towels and put it in a cooler for seven hours, it probably kept on cooking.


If you're going to give it a long rest (4+ hours), try pulling it at 180-185. I've had pretty good results doing it that way.

 

[sudsandswine]

Franklin braises brisket? I've walked the pit room at Franklins (pre-fire), I didn't see any evidence of that. Please elaborate.

Probably secretly cooks directly over coals too :blah:

 

[el luchador]

Probably secretly cooks directly over coals too :blah:

I guess when Aaron Franklin said "I dont EVER cook brisket without wrapping em" he was lying? :der:

 

[andre2955]

It sounds to like overcooked. "Falling apart", "16 hours at 250". Here is what I do on BGE for perfect brisket.

1) stable 275 egg temp
2) indirect set up with aluminum water pan under grate
3) start with Prime, trim as much fat off as possible, Leave cap, but trim down to 1/4 inch.
4) Fat side up, point towards rear of egg
5) Cook to 195 internal temp (temp taken at center)
6) Test with probe for tenderness
7) Remove from heat, wrap in foil, towel, cooler for min of 1 hour, 2 hours if possible.
8) Rest on counter in foil for 20 mins, slice.

Its perfect every time this way in egg. This method was discovered by mistake during a competition when everything went wrong. It turned out really well by accident, and i incorporated mistakes into recipe. Should also mention, a 15 lb packer (11 usually after fat trimming) cooks in about 8-9 hrs at 275 using this method.

Good luck - there is a wealth of knowledge on this site, its a journey... not a destination.

 

[Peter V]

I guess when Aaron Franklin said "I dont EVER cook brisket without wrapping em" he was lying? :der:

Yes, he has a video where he cooked 3 ways (unwrapped, foil and butcher paper) and preferred unwrapped that day.
"EVER" is a long time

 

[CentralOhioBBQ]

I guess when Aaron Franklin said "I dont EVER cook brisket without wrapping em" he was lying? :der:

Wrapping in butcher paper isn't braising. It's just wrapping. Terminology disconnect.


And I think the OP wasn't clear on whether the slices were falling apart or tight, he didn't really specify. I still think it was undercooked, even though @ 250 for 16 hours it should've been done. He said he pulled at 190.

 

[mstewart39]

I'm no brisket expert. I love practicing because I want to get good. Knowing when it's done is my struggle.
The kamado is a little different with wrapping in my mind. It's SUCH a moist cooking method that it's a bit different than people using stick burners, UDS's, WSM's, pellets, etc. I've done some wrapping and others without, and I haven't noticed a huge difference yet.
I'm struggling with the idea that it was 190 but overcooked and falling apart. I agree that it sounds as if you're getting a false temp reading. But I've cooked an 18 pound brisket in my Big Joe for more than 16 hours before with good results! I was probably a bit below 250 though.

You can make great brisket at 225, you can make great brisket at 275. You can make great brisket on a kamado wrapped, you can make great brisket unwrapped. In my mind it's a lot of making sure that you are keeping a close eye on internal temps to know when to start to probe, taking it off at the right time (that's where I struggle) and letting it rest for a few hours.

Just try again. I've had 2 briskets I remember that were so dry I couldn't eat them without BBQ sauce. And both were excellent with sauce or reheated in broth to make amazing sandwiches. Or in chili or nachos!

Practice. Even the failures can end up making good meals.

 

[smoke ninja]

I attempted my 1st packer Brisket on my Big Green Egg and it was not as good as I had hoped.

I have a lot of experience with my egg for Pork, Pizza, Bread, Steak etc but never tried a brisket until now. I wouldn't say it was a miserable failure but it's going to hard to convince the wife (who already doesn't like Brisket) to try again with an expensive piece of meat.

Here is the setup;

Brisket trimmed to ~ 1/4 inch fat layer and dry rub applied night before the smoke. For rub we used a very basic application of sea salt, pepper, garlic powder and pepper including injecting some of the mix with water. The rub wasn't caked on but we did apply a healthy amount due to the size of the Brisket which was ~18lbs before trim.

BGE at 250 and Brisket at near room temperature before putting it on the smoker. Put it fat cap down against the grill and pretty much left it along with ~16 hours.

I know they say internal temp does not tell you when the meat is done but I was watching it anyway. At just over 190 degrees the temp probe was sliding in and out of the point and the flat like butter so I figured it was done. The Brisket had shrunk nicely and had what appeared to be a nice bark on it.

However when cutting into it there was still a bunch of fat, the meat didn't really cut as much as fall apart and the flat was more burned an tough than what I would have expected since the probe was sliding like butter.

Also the bottom layer that was against the grill had to be cut completely off as it was hard, like it had been burned or something.

I had the BGE setup in smoke mode and had a drip pan under the Brisket for the smoke.

So any suggestions on what might have been wrong?

Temp to high maybe? Should I have put fat side up not down?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I recommend you start from scratch. Remove your prior misconceptions and build a method from that works for you.

First you used the the terms falling apart and tough to describe the meat. This leads me to believe it's a knife/slicing issue that on that.

The bottom was nuked. I find this an issue with kamado cookers and brisket. They are not the best option in my opinion. Like anything there are work around. Wrap or finish in an oven or even place in a pan (on a rack or not). At least I would flip the brisket occasionally.

Fat. Trim out to start what you don't want to eat. You'll never render out all of the fat vein or cap so get it close to start or you'll have to do it at the end and you'll lose bark.

You pulled at 190 and rested awhile. I do recommend long holds but care is needed not to overshoot during this. If you were at 275 there would be some carryover but 190 is a low finish temp for 275......time in the saddle is needed to get the feel for a done brisket. It's hard to say how finished it was on your probing, if you probed properly and did it overcook while you rested?

To start I'd trim more fat
Flip the meat as needed
Wrap or pan
Finish at a lower cook temp
Start with the best choice grade or better brisket you can find

And finally read all of this

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=119798&postcount=8

 

[el luchador]

Wrapping in butcher paper isn't braising. It's just wrapping. Terminology disconnect.


And I think the OP wasn't clear on whether the slices were falling apart or tight, he didn't really specify. I still think it was undercooked, even though @ 250 for 16 hours it should've been done. He said he pulled at 190.

nope. no terminology disconnect. Wrapping is a form of braising.

I wouldnt dwell on semantics though as that is not the point. The point is to let the op know that some of the most highly regarded pitmasters in the world wrap. high scoring cooks on the competition circuit wrap, and the op will have a much better chance of success if he wraps. braising brisket is not a bad thing. its a tough piece of meat. :thumb:

 

[el luchador]

I'm no brisket expert. I love practicing because I want to get good. Knowing when it's done is my struggle.
The kamado is a little different with wrapping in my mind. It's SUCH a moist cooking method that it's a bit different than people using stick burners, UDS's, WSM's, pellets, etc. I've done some wrapping and others without, and I haven't noticed a huge difference yet.
I'm struggling with the idea that it was 190 but overcooked and falling apart. I agree that it sounds as if you're getting a false temp reading. But I've cooked an 18 pound brisket in my Big Joe for more than 16 hours before with good results! I was probably a bit below 250 though.

You can make great brisket at 225, you can make great brisket at 275. You can make great brisket on a kamado wrapped, you can make great brisket unwrapped. In my mind it's a lot of making sure that you are keeping a close eye on internal temps to know when to start to probe, taking it off at the right time (that's where I struggle) and letting it rest for a few hours.

Just try again. I've had 2 briskets I remember that were so dry I couldn't eat them without BBQ sauce. And both were excellent with sauce or reheated in broth to make amazing sandwiches. Or in chili or nachos!

Practice. Even the failures can end up making good meals.

do you have data on the humidity of the Egg. that is something Ive been wanting to find out for a while now. My UDS is usually at approx 10% with no added moisture elements except the meat. a weber kettle can be as high as 20+ %. I would really like to know what an egg is.

 

[CentralOhioBBQ]

nope. no terminology disconnect. Wrapping is a form of braising.

I wouldnt dwell on semantics though as that is not the point. The point is to let the op know that some of the most highly regarded pitmasters in the world wrap. high scoring cooks on the competition circuit wrap, and the op will have a much better chance of success if he wraps. braising brisket is not a bad thing. its a tough piece of meat. :thumb:

Fair enough. I consider braising in the classical sense. The way they teach you at Chef school.

"Braising (from the French word braiser) is a combination-cooking method that uses both lit wet and dry heats: typically, the food is first seared at a high temperature, then finished in a covered pot at a lower temperature while sitting in some (variable) amount of liquid (which may also add flavor). Braising of meat is often referred to as pot roasting, though some authors make a distinction between the two methods, based on whether additional liquid is added.[1]"

Butcher paper breathes and doesn't hold juices and/or simmer. Franklin adds no liquid to his wrapped brisket.

 

[el luchador]

Fair enough. I consider braising in the classical sense. The way they teach you at Chef school.

"Braising (from the French word braiser) is a combination-cooking method that uses both lit wet and dry heats: typically, the food is first seared at a high temperature, then finished in a covered pot at a lower temperature while sitting in some (variable) amount of liquid (which may also add flavor). Braising of meat is often referred to as pot roasting, though some authors make a distinction between the two methods, based on whether additional liquid is added.[1]"

Butcher paper breathes and doesn't hold juices and/or simmer. Franklin adds no liquid to his wrapped brisket.

:thumb:

Fair enough. though when I have used butcher paper it did retain a significant amount of liquid in the paper. maybe its the cheap sam's club paper I bought.

 

[JS-TX]

I've smoked many briskets on my bubba keg (kamado). I really think you should check your thermometer's accuracy in boiling water. Thermometers are more truthful at higher temps than cold temps.

Wrapping in foil I would call braising, but paper? Hardly.. it slows down cooking if anything.

Kamados have lots of humidity (no idea on %) and they reflect a lot of heat, so I've found they cook big cuts of meat a bit quicker than most cookers.

 

[OklaDustDevil]

For the OP, just don’t believe you have to wrap to smoke a great brisket. I know it has become super-fashionable to wrap, mainly (IMHO) caused by the popularity of BBQ comp’s and tv shows, and I see all kinds of debates on here about foil vs. butcher paper, when to wrap, when to unwrap, etc. But one can smoke a great brisket without wrapping. In fact, in the YouTube comparisons I’ve seen (one by Aaron Franklin & one by Babyback Maniac), the cooks were surprised to sort of find the unwrapped version was best.

So there may be process changes you should make, but I assure you that you can do it without wrapping. I’ve smoked briskets for 30+ years on stickburners and never wrapped, and if I can do it I’m sure you can too!

 

[m-fine]

ill say it one more time, just in case it was missed.

brisket flat really needs a braise. it doesnt have enough fat to protect it during a long cook, and it is a thin piece of meat that drys out easily.

you learn how to braise and you never have another dry flat. even franklin bbq braises brisket.

thank me later

I make braised briskets and smoked briskets. You don’t need to braise it and you don’t even need to wrap it. Just because you don’t know how to smoke one doesn’t mean others can’t learn.

 

[m-fine]

For the OP, I think it was over cooked and cooked for too long, but it also may have been unevenly cooked with parts over cooked and parts undercooked.

IMHO, a large brisket like that is better if cooked a little hotter to get done sooner, or at least transition to a hold sooner. 16 hours is a long time to evaporate out so I try and get them off the smoke in 10-12 hours or less. That would mean cooking closer to 275-300 for an 18 lb packer.

I would also guess one or both of your temp readings was inaccurate. Where and how was the grill temp measured? How well does that represent what the meat saw? Also, in the kamado, I found the gap between deflector and drip pan and the meat matters. Use spacers, brick, bolts whatever to get the brisket 3-4” or more above the tray below. That should help get more even heat.