Another Mid Atlanta BBQ contest cancelled

[lagerboy]

Got an email that Hogging it up BBQ in West Virginia has cancelled their event in late October. Another one lost for the Mid Atlantic area. Either didnt renew from 2013 or cancelled this year. I know we skimmed over this before but as a back yarder and a CBJ, what can we do to help this from happening? I enjoy spending time and money at these events but it seems like at least in this area too many events are not renewing or canceling.
Harrington De
Middletown De
Gettysburg Pa
Frederick Md
Inwood WV
Hogging it up WV
One in Long Island

But I see we got new events recently in Scranton Pa and Allentown Pa.

 

[Gowan]

Interesting question:

As an organizer, here are my thoughts:

1. The best thing you can do is send in your registration and payment as early as possible - six months in advance would be great. Many events cancel because cooks like to wait until the last weeks before a contest to sign up, but often times the organization backing the event will meet a month or two prior to the date and panic over the lack of paid teams. Facing the prospect of having to come up with the promised thousands to cover the payout, the easiest thing for the organization to do is fold the contest. This is especially true for events run for charity, as if no money will be raised there is no point to having the event.

2. Communicate with your contest organizers! Call them up and ask them if the event is healthy, and if not what can you do to make it so? Are you willing to forego expensive amenities offered in past years? Would you pay a little extra for that monster RV power connection you've been getting? What if the prize pool were reduced a bit? As cooks, we must remember that these events are essentially private parties thrown for the cook teams and judges. We need the contest more than the organizer needs us! If you assume the role of a special party guest instead of that of a consumer renting a hotel room you'll shift your attitude 180 degrees. A volunteer organizer is a lot more likely to attempt to move mountains for folks who are asking him "What can I do to help?" than those that ask "What are you going to give to us this year?"

 

[Dan - 3eyzbbq]

Louisa, VA and Bluemont, VA as well

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I enjoy spending time and money at these events but it seems like at least in this area too many events are not renewing or canceling.
Harrington De
Hog & Hops got conflicted by Triple Threat - 2015 return odds - 85%
Middletown De
Middletown had a last minute venue issue - 2015 return odds - 95%
Gettysburg Pa
Gettysburg never recovered from it's first year disaster & trying to be run by committee - 2015 return odds - 5% (it's done)
Frederick Md
Not sure of the reasons for this one - 2015 return odds - 40%
Inwood WV
Organizer announced last year that they weren't going to do it again so this one is no surprise, contests come and go. - no odds - it's done
Hogging it up WV
Never really got off the ground
One in Long Island
If you're talking about Willeypalooza - he had a venue issue, if you are talking about The Maples - organizer burn out

But I see we got new events recently in Scranton Pa and Allentown Pa. Plus Leaxna VA, Harrington, DE (Triple Threat) Hampton Roads, VA, & Snow Hill, MD.

Interesting question:

As an organizer, here are my thoughts:

1. The best thing you can do is send in your registration and payment as early as possible - six months in advance would be great. Many events cancel because cooks like to wait until the last weeks before a contest to sign up, but often times the organization backing the event will meet a month or two prior to the date and panic over the lack of paid teams. Facing the prospect of having to come up with the promised thousands to cover the payout, the easiest thing for the organization to do is fold the contest. This is especially true for events run for charity, as if no money will be raised there is no point to having the event.

That's great for the organizer but more and more contests are adopting a "No refunds under any circumstance" policy which doesn't give cooks a warm and fuzzy feeling.

2. Communicate with your contest organizers! Call them up and ask them if the event is healthy, and if not what can you do to make it so? Are you willing to forego expensive amenities offered in past years? Would you pay a little extra for that monster RV power connection you've been getting? What if the prize pool were reduced a bit? As cooks, we must remember that these events are essentially private parties thrown for the cook teams and judges. We need the contest more than the organizer needs us! If you assume the role of a special party guest instead of that of a consumer renting a hotel room you'll shift your attitude 180 degrees. A volunteer organizer is a lot more likely to attempt to move mountains for folks who are asking him "What can I do to help?" than those that ask "What are you going to give to us this year?"

Communication works both ways. Organizers need to do some things like make sure their web forms are up to date. (2012 forms on a 2014 contest page don't inspire confidence). Return emails and phone calls.

Here's something else: Cooks can do simple math. If a contest is advertizing sponsors out the wazoo, has huge paid attendance numbers, has a $300 entry fee and 40+ teams yet only has a $4000 prize pool cooks are going to look at that and seek out better values for their entry fees.

There are enough contests out there now that cooks can and do shop for the best value for their entry fee and travel dollars. If contests treat cooks like poo or try to use them as ATM's then that contest isn't going to be around long.

Louisa, VA
Not sure if Louisa counts since Bill announced the end of it's run well in advance - no odds - it's done
Bluemont, VA
Bluemont is another contest that had a bit of a fiasco it's first year and never fully escaped that shadow, plus they wanted to make a million dollars off the cooks. Now that the person who organized it has taken another job it's done
as well

 

[Timmy Mac]

Man that sucks. Was thinking about doing hogging it up. Oh well.

 

[CBQ]

Mike raises some good points.

Also another one: for contests that depend on the gate to raise money, you also have to offer the public value, not just the teams.

In Stamford, the general public was being charged $15 a head to enter the contest. They found that no teams were vending, and there was ONE barbecue vendor. The vendor was owned by the contest organizer.

If your kids liked the bouncy house, great. If you thought the $15 entry fee was a little steep because it included no food, there was only one BBQ vendor, and no big name bands...well, will you be back the next year?

They seemed to get a lot of people in the gate...maybe it's just in the right place at the right time. I know some events that teams liked (Fryeburg, ME; Eliot, ME) were cancelled due to lack of attendance. Triple Threat (DE) and Monadnock (NH) are team favorites that also seemed a little light on the gate, but they are young contests and hopefully can develop a following.

In the meantime juggernauts like Merrimack bring in 250k+ in revenue, but treat the teams like crap and pay next to nothing. They are now starting to have team attendance problems, and barely squeaked their way into being a qualifier this year - but I don't think the organizers care as long as 20,000 people keep showing up.

 

[CBQ]

Would you pay a little extra for that monster RV power connection you've been getting? What if the prize pool were reduced a bit?

I am always happy to pay extra for more space or power - but it had better work. Pork in the Park (Salisbury) was charging extra for 30 AMP power, and then delivering 94 volts to contest sites in 2013. I don't know how it was this year because I abandoned the sinking ship and went to Triple Threat instead.

As far as the prize pool, remember most teams don't make money at this. We have finished in the top 10 in every single contest so far this year (most of them top 5), gotten a couple of GCs and a few 1st place category finishes, and we are still spending more than we take in.

I think contests should return 100% of the prize pool to the teams, less the KCBS sanctioning and rep fees. Let the sponsors and vendor fees cover the cost of your infrastructure, and make your money from the gate. Many contests do that quite successfully. Just because you are a charity doesn't mean i should be donating $200 of my $300 entry fee to you.

Stamford, CT has a prize pool that is double the Kingston, RI contest, and the RI contest is an add-on to an established festival so except for electrical most of the costs are already sunk costs anyway.

 

[eggzlot]

Mike raises some good points.

In Stamford, the general public was being charged $15 a head to enter the contest. They found that no teams were vending, and there was ONE barbecue vendor. The vendor was owned by the contest organizer.

If your kids liked the bouncy house, great. If you thought the $15 entry fee was a little steep because it included no food, there was only one BBQ vendor, and no big name bands...well, will you be back the next year?

Don't forget about the free pig/dog races every few hours :roll:

Guido and I had the first spot right in front of the entrance. Everyone one was asking us for free samples or to purchase samples. That is what Mohegan did well, allowed teams to vend to the public. At most contests you always have a few people asking for free or to buy samples, but in this area, this is one of the few contests with a door entry cost, and rightfully so more people than usual were inquiring.

I have a friend who is a fireman and wants to do a fundraiser as his town is looking to renovate the firehouse. He inquired about a BBQ contest as a fundraiser and I said its a long road to be a successful fundraiser from what I hear. I told him its a nice side show attraction, but if they want to raise funds, find something that people will want to pay to see, watching people cook in a parking lot (and not sampling) is not awfully exciting to the general public. I said with a well run people's choice and some other activities its possible but may not be a big windfall.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Just because you are a charity doesn't mean i should be donating $200 of my $300 entry fee to you.

And if you are doing this Mr. contest organizer then where is my charitable donation receipt to offset the W9 you're going to make me do?

 

[sdbbq1234]

And if you are doing this Mr. contest organizer then where is my charitable donation receipt to offset the W9 you're going to make me do?

Good point...

wallace(Don)

 

[wags]

My two cents, I keep reading over and over about teams wanting bigger and bigger payouts. Usually it's the top tier teams, and who are the organizers gonna listen to? The top tier teams of course. Just in the past 3 years I e been competing(2 or 3 a year) I've seen the entry fees climb steadily. To the point where I'm getting priced out of it. I think it's no coincidence your seeing less and less teams at these events. Without the teams like mine, your gonna lose contests and prize money. I can't imagine doing this and caring whether or not the gc gets 1500 or 750. It's just a good time cooking with friends. When it turns into something else, well I think your seeing the results.

 

[Gowan]

For the record, I do organize contests, currently one in Euharlee, Georgia. I've judged at fifty some odd KCBS & MBN events. I've cooked more contests than that. So I do understand the perspectives of all parties involved.

The original poster asked the question "what can we do to keep contests from cancelling?" I gave honest, concrete suggestions based on the organizer's point of view. Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed in the tone of some of these replies.

When the BBQ community stratifies into "us versus them" mentalities, nothing but bad things happen. On the other hand, if you can adopt a "we're all in this together" approach, the needs of contest organizers, cooks, judges and the public can be balanced to create an environment that can sustain a healthy calendar of events in a region.

Here in the South we are fortunate to have been able to achieve this, and as a result the lifespan of most events is quite long. I think the many cancellations and the last post by wags are both clear warning signs that y'all have a serious problem in your region, and unless everybody gets together to work the problem instead of assigning blame it will only get worse.

 

[jeffry1970]

My contest, queforthetroops, is in a unique situation so I don't have as many of the issues as some other contests. I will say you have to listen to everyone and try to be as accommodating as you can and yes some people are very needy.
If you have a contest and you rely on the public to make profit you have a huge gamble. One rainy day can kill your event and a hot one can be just as bad. Vendors don't make money and they won't be back next year and word spreads fast.
I think we put on a pretty good contest but after five years it has been a learning process and evolved into something great.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Upon further reflection I don't think we need to push the panic button just yet. Like everything else contests come and go. I did a little research and in 2009 there were 34 contests in the Mid Atlantic region (DE, MD, VA, NJ, NY, NC, WV and PA). In 2014 there are 59 (even with the cancellations) - a 42 percent increase. Competitor participation YTD 2014 vs 2009 is up 52%. The average # of competitors at Mid Atlantic contests in 2009 was 31. In 2014 YTD it's 54. Like I said in my earlier post cooks have a lot more choices now.

 

[CBQ]

It's getting easier to find contests now, so I don't think I would panic yet.

Maybe my tone is negative because I see so many contests that hurt themselves by doing things that are so easy to fix:

To keep the teams coming back:

1) Have accurate information on your website

2) If someone signs up, please send them an email acknowledging it.

3) Don't change requirements on the fly and not communicate it.

4) Remember teams are mostly hobbyists. They are not corporations, donors, or your event staff. We can tell which contests want us there and which don't.

 

[jeffry1970]

I know this year we had 65 teams and I was turning teams away

 

[Teamfour]

Upon further reflection I don't think we need to push the panic button just yet. Like everything else contests come and go. I did a little research and in 2009 there were 34 contests in the Mid Atlantic region (DE, MD, VA, NJ, NY, NC, WV and PA). In 2014 there are 59 (even with the cancellations) - a 42 percent increase. Competitor participation YTD 2014 vs 2009 is up 52%. The average # of competitors at Mid Atlantic contests in 2009 was 31. In 2014 YTD it's 54. Like I said in my earlier post cooks have a lot more choices now.

Those are interesting and encouraging stats. Do you have data on the avg entry fee in 2009 vs 2014?

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Those are interesting and encouraging stats. Do you have data on the avg entry fee in 2009 vs 2014?

No. From my own experience contest fees have remained fairly consistent in this region - around $200-$225. I have noticed more and more contests making electric a $ add-on.

 

[jeffry1970]

I would imagine for contests that have to pay to provide electric it would be a big expense. Our electric is donated and isn't the best but we get by.

 

[Gowan]

I would imagine for contests that have to pay to provide electric it would be a big expense. Our electric is donated and isn't the best but we get by.

You better believe it!

The last year I organized the Georgia BBQ Classic (100+ Pro & backyard teams combined) the total cost for electric power was around $15,000.

When you put in whisper quiet generators and a couple miles of distribution wiring you better be ready to pay.... and PRAY that the cost of diesel doesn't spike up on you the week before the event!

-GF