An open question to everybody...

you can learn a lot practicing at home !!!..

We have always been a team that practices a lot at home and we'll continue to do so but there's just no substitute for what you learn from live competition. I honestly think you have to have both.


We did about the same before the Jack. And do you know what I learned?
That I #$%@&!! HATE CHICKEN!!!

Yeah, you hated it all the way to the stage while collecting that 2nd Place trophy too!


Adding Peoples Choice or Taste of Championship BBQ is a lot of work for the teams I know. But we have to find a way to get cash back into every teams pockets not just the top ten winners At Stagecoach many of the teams will make over $1000 working the PC sales. The crowd loves getting the "real" BBQ We will refine this more in 2009
Some new ideas will be used to make this easier for the teams

If putting money back into the hands of teams is the goal then why is there a 50/50 split with the Organizer/Promoter on almost all of the PC/ToQ events instead of the 80/20 split we found at places like Rio Rancho and Durango? At 50/50 it is hardly worth the time, effort and energy required to vend the food. If there is a charity involved then I would much prefer to simply donate my food and have someone else do the selling so that ALL the money could go to the cause instead it being split between the event and the team. This may be a topic for a different thread and should one pop up I would be happy to elaborate on the experiences we had in 2008 with PC/ToQ events.
 
LOL The Guys who put up the $30,000 prize money in 2008 and paid all the bills for the event that entry fees dont cover got the other half of it
We are probably going back to The SC one system I will know this week
 
Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.
 
So what would you like then Vince?

Goldenvoice, who promotes Stagecoach is a concert promoter, not a BBQ contest promoter. They are in the biz to make a profit. We are part of that profit making, so in turn we pay a price for that. Just like the Lemonade vendor that pays a price to the promoter, just like the beer gardens who pay a price to the promoter, just like the pony rides that pay a price to the vendor.

Goldenvoice can tell Thom they are not interested in having BBQ teams at their concert site, because Goldenvoice can make more money renting out the space the give us to a Merry go Round or a Deep Fried Whatever booth. There is a reason the promoter put up such big prize money for Best Booth. The BBQers are nothing more than a sideshow attraction.

I would like to hear how you would make it better, or how you would go about putting on a major BBQ event at one of the largest music festivals in the country.








Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.
 
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Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.

Easy Money, Vince No it would not be easy money
The overhead in our contest area is a heck of a lot more than the money generated by PC
 
Easy Money, Vince No it would not be easy money
The overhead in our contest area is a heck of a lot more than the money generated by PC

I'm not uneducated regarding the economics involved in putting on an event the size of Stagecoach anymore than I am uneducated regarding the economics of running a competition barbeque team.

As I said earlier, I'm not responsible for the overhead involved in running the event. I'm responsible for the overhead in running my team. Plain and simple, it is not profitable to participate in a PC/ToQ event at a 50/50 split. That barely covers the cost of the raw meat and doesn't begin to address the labor involved in cooking it and serving it.

Considering that all the promoter has to do is sell the tickets to the general public and then count and distribute the money back to the teams, I'd say that was pretty easy for 50% of the kitty.

I seriously doubt that Stagecoach is a money losing venture for the people offering financial backing. The event draws over 50,000 people and with ticket prices ranging from $99 to $799 per person for the two day event, I think the money made from any PC/ToQ has very little to do with overhead and a lot more to do with taking what can be taken because they're in a position to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of capitalism and have no problem with people making a profit on their businesses. What I do have a problem with is when someone tells me what a great favor they're doing for me and at that same time has their hand in my pocket as deeply as they can get it. Call it what it really is and don't insult my intelligence.
 
Next year Vince, dont sell any People Choice then.

I will supply you a banner that tells people to come over to Notley Que for great Award winning BBQ. Ill gladly take their ticket and split it 50/50 with the promoter. Hell Ill even pay you 50 bucks for banner space on your tent.

Im happy with the extra tickets, your happy with out the stress of the demanding peoples choice. Its win win.

No joke, let me advertise on your tent, and that 50 bucks will at least pay for your chicken, and your charcoal. Ill even throw in a bottle of hot sauce.
 
So what would you like then Vince?

Goldenvoice, who promotes Stagecoach is a concert promoter, not a BBQ contest promoter. They are in the biz to make a profit. We are part of that profit making, so in turn we pay a price for that. Just like the Lemonade vendor that pays a price to the promoter, just like the beer gardens who pay a price to the promoter, just like the pony rides that pay a price to the vendor.

Goldenvoice can tell Thom they are not interested in having BBQ teams at their concert site, because Goldenvoice can make more money renting out the space the give us to a Merry go Round or a Deep Fried Whatever booth. There is a reason the promoter put up such big prize money for Best Booth. The BBQers are nothing more than a sideshow attraction.

I would like to hear how you would make it better, or how you would go about putting on a major BBQ event at one of the largest music festivals in the country.

Gary, I understand what Stagecoach is all about and how the barbeque event fits into the grand scheme of things. I know they're in business to make a profit but then again, so am I. If you recall, I was one of the leading voices last year in telling people that this contest is like no other event they would likely participate in because the concerts are the main course and the barbeque contest is just one of the many side dishes. In other words, they don't need us there, they want us there. I have no bones about how all that works.

What I'm talking about is the larger concept of PC/ToQ as an on-going thing from contest to contest. I know you did a number of events this year but I think most, if not all, were in California. I don't recall if you did the Boulder City event so forgive my bad memory if you were there this year. PC/ToQ is handled quite differently outside of the Golden State. It is seen more as a true vending operation instead of a contest. In your comments above, you talk about the lemonade vendor and the beer garden having to pay a price to the promoter but I can assure you that the price they're paying is a fixed price and not anything close to 50% of their gross sales. Why then should we be asked to pony up that kind of money? Probably because not many teams have ever stopped to think about it in terms of operating like a business because the truth is many of us are simply competing at events out of a love of the game and not to try and make money doing it.

You and I have talked in the past about how much fun it is to serve the food we've worked so hard to cook to people and the joy we get out of the happiness it brings as they eat it. We put a lot of our heart and soul into our competition cooking and the looks on those faces is almost as rewarding as the accolades we get from our fellow competitors when we're fortunate enough to take a walk up to the stage during the awards ceremony. I know you know what both feel like having taken those back-to-back 1st Place Brisket walks at Fairfield and Clovis this year.

Why should we have to pay a 50% toke to the promoter when they're taking a much smaller percentage of the actual vendor's revenue? As Thom pointed out in post above, the revenue from PC/ToQ is a drop in the virtual bucket and doesn't make even a tiny dent in the cost of running an event as large as Stagecoach. My team cooked and served a lot of food at the event this year. We were one of the last teams to run out of food on both days so I'm not talking out of school when I tell you that we barely broke even on our food costs and worked our butts off to keep up with the line we had in front of our booth. Do you know of many businesses that work all day just to break even? I don't.

Speaking specifically of Stagecoach, since that is something you asked about in your post, I think that if the folks putting on the event want us to "put on a show" then they should give us the opportunity to really make a couple of bucks profit as we serve and entertain the concertgoers with our food and banter. I'd be much more willing to put in the work necessary to put on that show if I knew I could really offset some of my expenses instead of just treading water while giving them what they want.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm criticizing the people behind Stagecoach for how PC/ToQ works. They're concert promoters not barbeque event promoters. They want their concertgoers entertained and fed and as long as that happens, I'm sure they'll be happy to keep us coming back time and again. I don't presume to tell them how to run their concert but I also don't presume to let them tell me that I have to work for nothing just for the opportunity to participate in the competition. Remember, my team's primary goal is to win the competition and if PC/ToQ gets in the way of that goal, it isn't hard to guess which activity is going to get my attention and which one isn't.
 
Soooooo do we have a deal then....

50 bucks and a bottle of hot sauce, and you dont have to do the P.C. No extra work for you.

I understand where you are coming from, but 50% is better than nothing.

I more than recouped my meat, gas, charcoal, and most misc expensise on P.C last year. Maybe thats why Im more pro for it than you. I dont know why I did so well, we had no booth decorations, no banner (forgot it at home), but we had lines. One of the 1st teams to sell out first all 3 days. No real extra cooking either.
 
Ha! What the hell am I going to do with a bottle of hot sauce?!?

As for 50% being better than nothing, I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point.
 
Its 18 degrees outside, and I am actually thinking about firing up the smoker and go practice for the 09 season. I cant say with any accuracy how many comps we are cooking in 09, but I will not miss Madison, Owensboro, Kettering, and a new one that is about 30 minutes from my house.

Even if I have to sell the secret to 15 place brisket, I will be there.

Podge, if the economy gets worse we could combine forces at a comp or 2..

That may not be a bad idea !.. BTW, are you talking about springfield, Ky. as being the close one for us ?.. that will be awesome !!.. I'd have to take nothing but back roads to get there.
 
Springfield? Havent heard of that one but I like it. I was thinking about the one over in Jeff. Im getting itchy for some comp time.
 
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