Confusion with Appearance Scores (Or I hope you are as dumbfounded as me)

[Solidkick]

Your top three needed to be your bottom three.....and rearrange some of the others.
I would have given it an 8.

The Pickled Pig (Paul) is on the same thinking lines as I am about the ribs, the box doesn't look full with the gap in the front.
I would have given it a 7.

we're seeing some of the same stuff you are this year as well. Our brisket appearance scores have always been 8s and mostly 9s. This year, seeing more 7s...probably because I just turn in slices....comparison judging to other boxes that has chunks or burnt ends.........whatever happened to judging each entry on it's own merit?

 

[lunchlady]

judges seriously wouldn't give an 8 or 9 for that chicken's appearance?
Looks like I would love to eat it, and that means it gets a good appearance score from me. ( Yes, I'm a CBJ)

Granted, I HATE little packages of chicken, reminds me of wedding food, but now... they have to be all in order, all the same size, re-arranged, etc... WTF ????
Next I will need to make sparkles shoot out the damn box in order to get a 9.

but seriously folks... come on! Good Q looks like GOOD Q... and that does look like a fine sample.

When do they say at the judges meeting/class that you should score down for pieces not being identical? Or pieces being in the wrong place? Or too much green in the front of the rib box?

As far as I know, in nature, there are no identical freakin chicken thighs!
No wonder we suck at chicken lately.

Judges, please use your comment cards, and please be specific! We're dying out here!

 

[rweller]

Greg, after seeing your chicken my table did not have it. I agree with what you said. I would give you chicken a 8/9 and ribs 7. I think you right on, you surely don't deserve a 4 or 5.
I seen somethings I didn't like this last weekend at Pacific but Im just a judge.

Now that you have seen teh pics would you believe this?
Chicken - 959887 - 5?
Ribs - 977478 - 4?

I asked the reps about it. Was the judge talked to? Was there a comment card? Turned out they didnt make comment cards available. I was told that the scores could not be changed. They really didnt understand what I was after.

I dont think either box deserved a 4 or 5 - if you do I am sorry to bother you with this rant - but if you arent talking to the judge then doesnt he/she do it again and again?

(Personally I would have given my chicken a 8 or 9 and my ribs a 7)

BTW, my pork was 878888 and my brisket was 888888 so the problem was not in every category

 

[rweller]

Hummm KCBS is listing 93% and I saw at least two CBJs that were acting as table captain instead of judging. So we had CBJs not eating so non-KCBS judges could eat.

Greg, all table captains also judged and they were KCBS certified. Not sure what the percentage of KCBS certified was but there were a good number that weren't KCBS certified. I would say 70% maybe.

 

[Brewmaster]

Greg, after seeing your chicken my table did not have it. I agree with what you said. I would give you chicken a 8/9 and ribs 7. I think you right on, you surely don't deserve a 4 or 5.
I seen somethings I didn't like this last weekend at Pacific but Im just a judge.

I assume you are talking about the reps. Can you elaborate?

 

[daedalus]

8 for the chicken, 7 for the ribs....no one could justify 4's and 5's on either of those boxes for appearance.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

I would go 7 or eight in the chicken, the black spots keep it from a nine, they look like dirty crumbs that fell off the top rack of you smoker (yes I have experience with this) The ribs I would go 6, the color is decent but the meat is all over the place, trim your ribs better and get the higher score, they look like they came right out of the cryo, cooked, sliced and boxed. I could care less about the gap in the front of not it has nothing to do with the meat.

 

[stlgreg]

Your top three needed to be your bottom three.....and rearrange some of the others.
I would have given it an 8.

The Pickled Pig (Paul) is on the same thinking lines as I am about the ribs, the box doesn't look full with the gap in the front.
I would have given it a 7.

we're seeing some of the same stuff you are this year as well. Our brisket appearance scores have always been 8s and mostly 9s. This year, seeing more 7s...probably because I just turn in slices....comparison judging to other boxes that has chunks or burnt ends.........whatever happened to judging each entry on it's own merit?

Thanks Mr. Kick! I am not saying I deserved straight 9s on either entry. Beleive me! :-D:-D:-D

After the chicken turn in, I really started to feel the heat then i tasted the ribs and each one was a little bitter - I have to figure out why. Otherwise that box would have looked better but a 4?

 

[stlgreg]

Greg, after seeing your chicken my table did not have it. I agree with what you said. I would give you chicken a 8/9 and ribs 7. I think you right on, you surely don't deserve a 4 or 5.
I seen somethings I didn't like this last weekend at Pacific but Im just a judge.

A good judge at that or shall i say a FAIR judge - all I can ask! I have been around you enough to know.

To any organizer out there if STLLOUQUE or Ralph want to judge your contest take them in a heartbeat. They want to do the fair thing

 

[stlgreg]

judges seriously wouldn't give an 8 or 9 for that chicken's appearance?
Looks like I would love to eat it, and that means it gets a good appearance score from me. ( Yes, I'm a CBJ)

Granted, I HATE little packages of chicken, reminds me of wedding food, but now... they have to be all in order, all the same size, re-arranged, etc... WTF ????
Next I will need to make sparkles shoot out the damn box in order to get a 9.

but seriously folks... come on! Good Q looks like GOOD Q... and that does look like a fine sample.

When do they say at the judges meeting/class that you should score down for pieces not being identical? Or pieces being in the wrong place? Or too much green in the front of the rib box?

As far as I know, in nature, there are no identical freakin chicken thighs!
No wonder we suck at chicken lately.

Judges, please use your comment cards, and please be specific! We're dying out here!

Thanks lunchlady, you said it well!

When i sit down to judge for appearance all I am looking at it how much do I really want to eat that meat! Of course some things come into play like shiners in ribs, meat looks dried out, but that is nothing but a factor on how much i want to eat it!

 

[stlgreg]

I would go 7 or eight in the chicken, the black spots keep it from a nine, they look like dirty crumbs that fell off the top rack of you smoker (yes I have experience with this) The ribs I would go 6, the color is decent but the meat is all over the place, trim your ribs better and get the higher score, they look like they came right out of the cryo, cooked, sliced and boxed. I could care less about the gap in the front of not it has nothing to do with the meat.

Thanks for the black spot remark! I will watch that in the future.

 

[swamprb]

When you think about the times you judged, do you ever ask any at your table if they cook BBQ at home or even compete? The majority of them in MY area don't. And couldn't give a rats a$$ how much effort you put into the boxes. They are there for the "good BBQ" and have the balls to sit and pontificate. And if you call them on it they get all defensive and just scurry off with their ziplocks! I never see them at the awards and never had one stop by and introduce themselves to me after judging, I know who some of them are and cringe when I see them walking past my booth with their coolers. Professional Eaters! Judge Farked-I like that one!

But it wouldn't be a ballgame without an Umpire, and love or hate them its all their opinion.

 

[stlgreg]

When you think about the times you judged, do you ever ask any at your table if they cook BBQ at home or even compete? The majority of them in MY area don't. And couldn't give a rats a$$ how much effort you put into the boxes. They are there for the "good BBQ" and have the balls to sit and pontificate. And if you call them on it they get all defensive and just scurry off with their ziplocks! I never see them at the awards and never had one stop by and introduce themselves to me after judging, I know who some of them are and cringe when I see them walking past my booth with their coolers. Professional Eaters! Judge Farked-I like that one!

But it wouldn't be a ballgame without an Umpire, and love or hate them its all their opinion.

Oh yeah, I coudl name a few of those too but i really dont want to start naming names on that end.

 

[Alexa RnQ]

When you think about the times you judged, do you ever ask any at your table if they cook BBQ at home or even compete? The majority of them in MY area don't. And couldn't give a rats a$$ how much effort you put into the boxes. They are there for the "good BBQ" and have the balls to sit and pontificate. And if you call them on it they get all defensive and just scurry off with their ziplocks! I never see them at the awards and never had one stop by and introduce themselves to me after judging, I know who some of them are and cringe when I see them walking past my booth with their coolers.

I'm sorry you've had this experience. In our area, several of our judges DO compete. We know a good many of them, new as we are, and engage them in conversation after judging and thank them for their efforts, because as you point out there's no contest without them. Some of them travel hundreds of miles and incur hotel and other expenses, with no hope of compensation -- just for the love of this hobby, and because CBJs aren't as thick on the ground here as in other areas.

 

[Spydermike72]

Dont the high and the low score get thrown out ??

 

[Alexa RnQ]

Just the low score.

We've heard of reps telling a consistently-low-scoring judge that they're wasting their seat, because their score is always the one that gets thrown out -- therefore that judge's scores become irrelevant.

 

[rweller]

I assume you are talking about the reps. Can you elaborate?

Would rather not on here. I will tell you the next time I see ya.
I thought the reps did a good job from my perspective. But I wasn't a cook either.

 

[Spydermike72]

Just the low score.

We've heard of reps telling a consistently-low-scoring judge that they're wasting their seat, because their score is always the one that gets thrown out -- therefore that judge's scores become irrelevant.

Thanks!! I was confused....

 

[musicmanryann]

Just the low score.

We've heard of reps telling a consistently-low-scoring judge that they're wasting their seat, because their score is always the one that gets thrown out -- therefore that judge's scores become irrelevant.

But they are relevant due to the fact that because they are always the lowest score the second lowest score is always counted.:mrgreen:

 

[Spydermike72]

But they are relevant due to the fact that because they are always the lowest score the second lowest score is always counted.:mrgreen:

Yes you are correct!!

In this case, if the 5 is thrown out then you have a pretty good score. We are talking human judging here and one persons 5 may be another's 7...