2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner

[Bigdog]

Right. I was thinking about the massive amount of BTU's that go up into the air from the burn barrel instead of into the cooker. For the backyard cook who is trying to save money on wood, that's a lot of wasted heat. I'm trying to make my wood stack last as long as possible before I need to buy more because I'm cooking all the time, not just once in a blue moon.

BTW, Joe Phillips said the "coal base" is where all the heat comes from. My experience is I get a lot of heat from burning wood too.

You are correct, of course it does. Not sure why Joe would say that.

 

[Notorious Q.U.E.]

+1

I was ready to order a Loaded Wichita as well until I stumbled across this thread. Slamkeys was clearly not some internet troll with a vendetta against Yoder. Anyone who read the whole thread could see that. I continued my research and ordered the LSG, which began to be built yesterday as a matter or fact!:clap2:

JokerBroker, I'm pumped for you. I'll be in the LSG queue in the next 3 months (wife willing). Kindly start a thread showing off your wares once the beast arrives. I can't wait to see your rig.

I have no beef with Yoder, but I believe in free markets, free flow of information, and the ability for the best products to win!!

 

[slamkeys]

You know, after watching T-Roy's interview and the discussion about Yoder's heat management plate, I was reminded of Horizon's "convection plate" system which I've seen before in photos. Horizon's system looks superior to me for a couple of reasons:

• Horizontal placement, much like a tuning plate system, does not create back pressure on the firebox.
• Adjustment handle allows for tweaking the hot zone during the cook.

I'm also questioning who is copying who, because these two companies seem to have almost identical designs. Did Horizon "invent" this convection plate design first, or did Yoder? Perhaps it was an older company like Oklahoma Joe's, and they both "borrowed" the concept. It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows the history behind this convection plate/heat management plate design.

At any rate, when I compare the Horizon models to their similar Yoder counterparts, I always seem to favor the functional design of the Horizons, while I like the looks of the Yoders better. In hindsight, what's really more important, looks or function? Obviously function.

Yoder design. Long plate angled downward with fewer holes and not really intended to be adjustable.

 

[IXL]

Roger Davidson, the owner of Horizon, is the brother of Joe Davidson, of Oklahoma Joe's fame. Roger was the vice president of OK Joe's during the heady days of the resurgent Okla/Tx oil boom (Yee Haw!!! that was FUN!!).
It is no coincidence, I'm sure, that the Horizon stuff looks much like the same designs that many of these same guys were making for Joe.
My Horizon convection plate works so well that even I appear to know what I'm doing around an offset. I had no idea that the Yoder product didn't provide a meas to adjust the plate during a cook; I see this as a valuable feature. Also, both ends can be balanced to within just a couple of degrees, if desired, or jacked apart by about a million or so.

 

[Bryan58]

New guy here. I ordered a Cheyenne on 8/30/17 and have been reading the Yoder forums a lot recently, especially slamkeys' posts. After Yoder posted about the damper modifications, I decided to e-mail them to find out what I could and this is all that I was told: "I have checked with the factory and all new Cheyenne smokers (including yours) will be delivered with the latest improvements. As for the Cheyenne we have lowered the airflow on firebox door for increased efficiency." I was told 6-8 weeks for delivery, so I'll post some pics later in October.

 

[slamkeys]

I had no idea that the Yoder product didn't provide a means to adjust the plate during a cook; I see this as a valuable feature.

Joe Phillips actually said, "The [heat management plate] lip should curl under the ash seal." That was always my understanding, and I have never even thought of moving the plate around since I started using my Wichita.

When I tuck the lip of the heat management plate below the ash seal on my smoker, it extends the "wall of steel" between the firebox and the cooker body up to 6 1/2 inches! Not very conducive to good flow. And, since the plate angles downward, the heat has to move even further downward to get through the cooker body.

From the other side, the open edges are clearly visible, as is the outline of the top of the firebox. When I compare this to the Horizon design I definitely like the Horizon better.

 

[slamkeys]

A new post on the Yoder forum from a heavily invested Yoder customer calls on Yoder to be more open about what's going on:

Re: My Wichita Experience
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8960#p8960

 

[Notorious Q.U.E.]

A new post on the Yoder forum from a heavily invested Yoder customer calls on Yoder to be more open about what's going on:

Re: My Wichita Experience
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8960#p8960

Slamkeys, your knowledge and expertise is needed in a thread from a gentleman Down Under. Please scroll down Q-talk and find the Wichita drafting mod thread cause I think this fellow needs your help!!

 

[DubfromGA]

Slamkeys, I really appreciate your ongoing efforts and insight.


I'm sorta kicking the tires on various offset stick burners and am doing so with an eye on the budget. I can't afford to get something that's not effective and smooth running.

I had such a stick burner years ago that was pain in the rear to cook on. Airflow was horrid and it scared me off stick-burners for quite some time.

I'm taking my time this go'round as I don't have a true need for one.....just a want, lol.


It's great reading through your experiences and very helpful.

Thank you !!!!

 

[slamkeys]

Slamkeys, I really appreciate your ongoing efforts and insight.

Thanks. I'm normally a very quiet person, so this drama that has unfolded over the past year was never something I bargained for when I bought my Loaded Wichita. What started out as a whimper from one unhappy customer has turned into a roar from a growing band of past customers who thought they were alone in their frustration over the Yoder offset performance.

It seems Yoder is finally taking some action, but for many of us it will be too little too late. In my profession we sometimes refer to the process of "polishing a turd" which describes the ongoing refinement of something that has such a major design flaw that it will never work as intended despite all the efforts to improve it. The only real solution is a re-design. Have you ever heard of that? Well, that is the perfect description for the current Yoder offset design, in my opinion. Everyone seems so impressed with the precision of fit, weld quality, and aesthetic beauty of their smokers they overlook the fact that they don't actually work as good as they look due to a major design flaw. Yoder has polished a turd.

The smoker market is pretty diverse these days, and it's tough to pick one with so many choices and so many custom builders. If only there was a "try before you buy" option so we knew what we were getting when we signed up. I would love to have a Shirley Fabrication smoker, knowing what I know now, but you have to wait a good while to get one of those, and most of their units are overkill for my needs. My fear is I'll eventually know so much about smokers I'll begin looking for used propane tanks so I can build one from scratch! If you want something done right, then do it yourself!

 

[Notorious Q.U.E.]

Thanks. I'm normally a very quiet person, so this drama that has unfolded over the past year was never something I bargained for when I bought my Loaded Wichita. What started out as a whimper from one unhappy customer has turned into a roar from a growing band of past customers who thought they were alone in their frustration over the Yoder offset performance.

It seems Yoder is finally taking some action, but for many of us it will be too little too late. In my profession we sometimes refer to the process of "polishing a turd" which describes the ongoing refinement of something that has such a major design flaw that it will never work as intended despite all the efforts to improve it. The only real solution is a re-design. Have you ever heard of that? Well, that is the perfect description for the current Yoder offset design, in my opinion. Everyone seems so impressed with the precision of fit, weld quality, and aesthetic beauty of their smokers they overlook the fact that they don't actually work as good as they look due to a major design flaw. Yoder has polished a turd.

The smoker market is pretty diverse these days, and it's tough to pick one with so many choices and so many custom builders. If only there was a "try before you buy" option so we knew what we were getting when we signed up. I would love to have a Shirley Fabrication smoker, knowing what I know now, but you have to wait a good while to get one of those, and most of their units are overkill for my needs. My fear is I'll eventually know so much about smokers I'll begin looking for used propane tanks so I can build one from scratch! If you want something done right, then do it yourself!

PJ o Rourke once wrote “the Berlin Wall fell because East Germans didn’t want to wear Bulgarian shoes anymore “. I take away that a Yoder Wichita, as currently designed, is a Bulgarian shoe compared to a free market offering better smokers for cheaper prices. Base Shirley is 400 bucks cheaper!

I say vote with your feet and let the truth be Told !!

 

[JokerBroker]

Dear Yoder,
If the paying customer says you have a problem, you have a problem.
Best regards,
The Free Market

 

[funstuie]

Here is what is probably a stupid question -

Has anyone changed the wheels on their Yoder Wichita? The big steel wheels are difficult to move and I think something like golf cart wheels would make life a lot easier.

 

[IXL]

Dear customer, if you think you have a problem, then:

rotate the entire smoker (possibly constantly) toward more breeze
use drier wood
use even drier, kiln-dried wood ($$$)
learn how to build a fire
build a much, much bigger fire
use about 30lbs of charcoal as a "base" for the forthcoming big fire
open the fire box door, as only a fool would expect our smokers to work by merely
adjusting the intake vents
open the fire box door wider
utilize a large and powerful electric fan to force air into the wide-opened-door fire box
use still more charcoal as a base
elevate the smoker exhaust-side
lower the smoker exhaust-side
watch the "how to build a fire in a smoker that doesn't work" video
watch the video again, this time while adding more charcoal and artisan-dried woods
if the wind shifts momentarily, rotate the whole smoker, momentarily (sounds fun,
don't it!!), regardless of how you would prefer it be positioned in your outdoor cooking area

 

[DubfromGA]

Thanks. I'm normally a very quiet person, so this drama that has unfolded over the past year was never something I bargained for when I bought my Loaded Wichita. What started out as a whimper from one unhappy customer has turned into a roar from a growing band of past customers who thought they were alone in their frustration over the Yoder offset performance.

It seems Yoder is finally taking some action, but for many of us it will be too little too late. In my profession we sometimes refer to the process of "polishing a turd" which describes the ongoing refinement of something that has such a major design flaw that it will never work as intended despite all the efforts to improve it. The only real solution is a re-design. Have you ever heard of that? Well, that is the perfect description for the current Yoder offset design, in my opinion. Everyone seems so impressed with the precision of fit, weld quality, and aesthetic beauty of their smokers they overlook the fact that they don't actually work as good as they look due to a major design flaw. Yoder has polished a turd.

The smoker market is pretty diverse these days, and it's tough to pick one with so many choices and so many custom builders. If only there was a "try before you buy" option so we knew what we were getting when we signed up. I would love to have a Shirley Fabrication smoker, knowing what I know now, but you have to wait a good while to get one of those, and most of their units are overkill for my needs. My fear is I'll eventually know so much about smokers I'll begin looking for used propane tanks so I can build one from scratch! If you want something done right, then do it yourself!

Polishing a turd. LMAO, yet that is perfectly descriptive. :thumb:


Again, I really appreciate your insight. Hang in there and know that you've likely helped save folks like a me a pile of frustration and some much needed dinero $$$.


I see you also own a BGE. Now.....there is a product that just flat out works, works, works and friggin' works.

If all my tools & toys worked as smoothly as my kamados then my frustration level would be minimum, indeed. :becky:

 

[slamkeys]

Dear customer, if you think you have a problem, then:

rotate the entire smoker (possibly constantly) toward more breeze
use drier wood
use even drier, kiln-dried wood ($$$)
learn how to build a fire
build a much, much bigger fire
use about 30lbs of charcoal as a "base" for the forthcoming big fire
open the fire box door, as only a fool would expect our smokers to work by merely
adjusting the intake vents
open the fire box door wider
utilize a large and powerful electric fan to force air into the wide-opened-door fire box
use still more charcoal as a base
elevate the smoker exhaust-side
lower the smoker exhaust-side
watch the "how to build a fire in a smoker that doesn't work" video
watch the video again, this time while adding more charcoal and artisan-dried woods
if the wind shifts momentarily, rotate the whole smoker, momentarily (sounds fun,
don't it!!), regardless of how you would prefer it be positioned in your outdoor cooking area

And if all that doesn't do the trick, we can build you a "custom door" at your expense because you are obviously over-thinking the process for our special-needs smoker.

The cooker design and methods outlined in the video will provide a Yoder Smokers owner with years of exceptional cooking experiences, without the need to change anything or overthink processes.

This thread is being closed.

[mic drop]

 

[YS-Joe]

I want to jump in for just a few statements. I'm not here to cause a fuss, place or receive blame for anything. We have always been and always will be a customer service company. We have tirelessly worked at our products since we began this journey. If the product isn't serving the customer or is difficult to run than we need to have a look at the product. We committed to do that so we that is what we done. We made a minor switch to help improve the customer experience and create a way to retrofit old customers. I've ran the old style pit and new style pit and very pleased with results of both. We will be getting some local user opinions in the coming week to be sure they are satisfied with the product.We truly are listening and always will.
I want to correct a few things that are direct quotes of what I said in a video lately.
Kiln dried wood versus other wood. My statement is they are different not that I recommend one over the other. I was just simply stating that there will be a difference in performance and fire management to achieve similar outcomes.
Managing the intake and stack is the way that I learned to run and control a pit. That doesn't make me right but does work. You can do this and maintain a clean and efficient fire. We will shoot some video next week of this being done and the impact to the pit temperature and smoke output. We have been building this exact product for a decade and have made some great friends and life long customers along the way because of this product. From really large pits to the backyard models and everything in between. Nothing is infallible or perfect, so we are always taking feedback and making adjustments.
We are sorry that some of our customers feel like we aren't listening. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[slamkeys]

Slamkeys, your knowledge and expertise is needed in a thread from a gentleman Down Under. Please scroll down Q-talk and find the Wichita drafting mod thread cause I think this fellow needs your help!!

I've spoken with bbqpitsmoker before and he's been chronicling his Wichita journey too, albeit with a slightly different approach. His "mods" include a small fire basket to contain the wood and coals better in a kind of silo arrangement, blocking off the upper vent on the fire door, and doubling the length of the smokestack (40"!). He's been happy with the outcome so far. It should be noted, however, that he has completely abandoned the use of the heat management plate, and the unit does flow better without the heat management plate (recent reference: http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8960#p8960).

Yoder Wichita: My solution to its airflow/drafting issues by bbqpitsmoker
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252264


Blocking the upper vent:

Custom-made 40 inch mega smoke stack (wouldn't even fit in the photo!):

Concentrated fire basket/silo:

 

[slamkeys]

I see you also own a BGE. Now.....there is a product that just flat out works, works, works and friggin' works.

Agreed. I used mine last night with the cast iron grate to grill some NY strips and zucchini halves, and they turned out exactly the way I wanted them. The only thing that was left over was a spoonful of sauteed Portabella mushrooms, but I'll be cleaning those up here in a little while :wink:

The only issue I've had with the BGE was the removable ceramic fire box cracked all the way around the mid-section after about a year's usage, but they replaced it no questions asked and the new one is holding up fine. It's definitely a versatile and fun-to-use cooker, and the large size is just perfect for my household.

I just put some chickens on the Wichita about 30 minutes ago, so today is smoker day!

 

[JokerBroker]

I want to jump in for just a few statements. I'm not here to cause a fuss...

I don't have a dog in this fight but as a consumer, my hat is off to you for joining this forum and saying a few words. An occasional statement from you on this forum now and again stating the company's point of view can go a long way to enhancing public relations and ultimately increase sales. I know Wilson Combat always has a rep on the 1911 forum just monitoring things and he is quick to jump in if any issues or misunderstandings start to flare up about his products or services. This goes a long way to keeping things from spinning into the dirt. Many people with issues on your smaller cookers feel they aren't being heard so whether that is true or not, perception can be even more important than reality.