This is a very astute observation. And if a cook hasn't learned how to problem-solve and comparison-test methods, what will they do when the curve has moved beyond them -- take another class?
Injection question
- Thread starter ZILLA
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This is a very astute observation. And if a cook hasn't learned how to problem-solve and comparison-test methods, what will they do when the curve has moved beyond them -- take another class?
ZILLA
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I'm really not trying to steer this in any one direction and i guess it's both , David. Two questions intertwined so to speak. Actually it was my wife that asked this question to me. She is an NP and faculty at the UT Health Science Center here in San Antonio in the Nephrology dept (Kidney Disease). She is always very concerned about sodium as it relates to kidney damage. She is also involved in research which is where the ethical part comes in. Informing folks is key the ethical conduct during a study.
Now all that being said I do like all the benefits of injecting and even as one of your customers I do sometimes wonder if I should tell others what they about to eat. You have to admit that these are not normal ingredients in any traditional BBQ and that may be what some think they are getting. Just a question and nothing more.
Smokedelic
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Probably...it's the quick fix, but it won't keep you progressing along the curve. IMO, success in this hobby of ours has become a moving target, and classes do a great job of getting you honed into what it takes "right now" to win. But what happens when you're cooking next year or even 6 months from now and the "target" has moved?
ZILLA
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Our food is not processed and is supposed to represent an artisinal product.... You agree with that I know. I for one am trying to minimize processed foods.
ZILLA
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I agree Mike! That target done moved on me just this past weekend down in Victoria.
Smokedelic
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Zilla, if your concerns are health-related, I think there are bigger health issues with the food we cook than a little sodium phosphate, or MSG, or any other chemical that might be used to enhance meat. There are tons of foods that we eat every day that have greater amounts of chemicals than what is used in competition bbq, IMO.
If your concern is potential allergies of those that judge to the chemicals being used, then I'd suggest that those judges find another hobby besides judging food. It's no different than someone who has a nut allergy signing up to judge a cake contest. If the potential risk to a judge is present, it would be prudent for them to not put themselves in that situation.
If your concern is straying from the traditional ideas of BBQ by the use of chemicals to produce award winning meat, then I offer it is no better, nor worse than the practice of cooking prime briskets, wagyu or akaushi beef, or duroc, berkshire, or kurobuta pork in order to win.
...but that's just me
If your concern is potential allergies of those that judge to the chemicals being used, then I'd suggest that those judges find another hobby besides judging food. It's no different than someone who has a nut allergy signing up to judge a cake contest. If the potential risk to a judge is present, it would be prudent for them to not put themselves in that situation.
If your concern is straying from the traditional ideas of BBQ by the use of chemicals to produce award winning meat, then I offer it is no better, nor worse than the practice of cooking prime briskets, wagyu or akaushi beef, or duroc, berkshire, or kurobuta pork in order to win.
...but that's just me
ZILLA
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I agree.
Well, there are several points there that would need agreed-upon definitions.
How processed is processed? I know people who consider pasteurization or cooking in any form to be "processing", but we're not serving raw meat. I know other people who think that storebought rotisserie chicken isn't processed, even though it's shot full of everything possible.
Is competition BBQ supposed to represent an artisanal product? What makes a product artisanal? What would be considered an artisanal pit? Are we back to holes dug in the ground?
If someone is limiting processed foods for specific health concerns, they know to inquire as to their proposed food's origins and ingredients -- that's personal responsibility. Then again, we have people whose idea of limiting processed food is to lay off beer and Velveeta for a couple days a week.
So I suppose that even if definitions were agreed upon, various BBQ products would fall at all points along a hypothetical line, and we'd have an awful lot of room for discussion -- enough to last all winter!
How processed is processed? I know people who consider pasteurization or cooking in any form to be "processing", but we're not serving raw meat. I know other people who think that storebought rotisserie chicken isn't processed, even though it's shot full of everything possible.
Is competition BBQ supposed to represent an artisanal product? What makes a product artisanal? What would be considered an artisanal pit? Are we back to holes dug in the ground?
If someone is limiting processed foods for specific health concerns, they know to inquire as to their proposed food's origins and ingredients -- that's personal responsibility. Then again, we have people whose idea of limiting processed food is to lay off beer and Velveeta for a couple days a week.
So I suppose that even if definitions were agreed upon, various BBQ products would fall at all points along a hypothetical line, and we'd have an awful lot of room for discussion -- enough to last all winter!
Butcher BBQ
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Thats what I was sure your thought was when I was reading your 1st post. My point is a lot like what Mike posted, the target is moving and you need to move with it and the need to inject is only one step in the cooking process. It won't give you a win, but it helps. Now with that said I'm sure there is die hard golf players that don't like the new and improved clubs and shoes. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was attacking you just pointing out that everything changes and at some point it will change from what we currently know as comp bbq and we won't like it.
This is a good thread and will be good to hear what other think. So for now :tape::tape:
mobow
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Velvetta is processed food!!. OMG. keith
Could not agree more, actually. Thomas Edison (who screwed Tesla!!!:tape
once said that he did not fail 200 times at inventing a lightbulb, but succeeded in finding 200 ways not to do it.
ZILLA
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To the point of ethics. Several folks have suggested that it's allowed by the rules. Or is it? Is it simply not mentioned therefore gets under the wire by omission? The point my wife was trying to make to me (please remember this was a lively debate in my kitchen first) was that even though it's allowed by not being disallowed still leaves the judges in the dark as to what they are eating. Store bought foods have to have ingredients listed on the packaging, restaurants are "supposed" to follow certain guidelines set up by federal, state, and local agencies as well to keep the public safe. Do our organizations owe it to the people that taste our food to know what they are getting?
Maybe I'm not exactly comparing apples to apples here, but most of the meats we are buying now days are already injected with some type of solution as a flavor enhancer since so much of today's poultry, hogs, cattle, etc are "factory" raised. 20-30-40 years ago, this was not so much the case (at least with hogs and cattle).
Is the question injecting period or injecting with a purchased product such as Butchers, FAB or Kosmos? If it's the later, where's the line for those making their own injections at home? Or is it OK for home made products? If so, then one could open the can of worms to rubs, sauces, mops, our own chopped wood, pits, hand dug pits, slaughtered animals ... would this be done after meat inspection?
Ok, I've purposely went overboard to demonstrate many of us have different views on what traditional BBQ is and difficulty of drawing lines within rules with all the different aspects to the bbq process.
Is the question injecting period or injecting with a purchased product such as Butchers, FAB or Kosmos? If it's the later, where's the line for those making their own injections at home? Or is it OK for home made products? If so, then one could open the can of worms to rubs, sauces, mops, our own chopped wood, pits, hand dug pits, slaughtered animals ... would this be done after meat inspection?
Ok, I've purposely went overboard to demonstrate many of us have different views on what traditional BBQ is and difficulty of drawing lines within rules with all the different aspects to the bbq process.
ZILLA
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The question was.....Is it ethical to serve enhanced meat to judges without telling them?
Absolutely, it's already enhanced when it leaves the packing plant.
B
Buster Dog BBQ
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I agree with Bobby. Go to a local grocer and see if there is anything that is not enhanced, especially on the pork side. If you disclose enhanced meat to judges does that also include other enhancements and or warnings of potential food allergies?
I think a judge needs to accept what they are going to eat with those precautions in mind. If they don't want to don't judge.
I think a judge needs to accept what they are going to eat with those precautions in mind. If they don't want to don't judge.
ZILLA
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There are indeed products sold that are enhanced but, they are labeled so, to ethically inform the consumer. That's what this thread is about, ethics and informing.... You have a choice there fellas. You do not have to buy enhanced meat. I never do.
I hear ya, Zilla!!! The only enhancement my butcher does is cutting trimming fat!
:thumb:
monty3777
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off-topic, so I deleted my reply
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