Bigmista's Turn-in boxes

[NateOwsley]

Chicken - 6 grill marks look contrived
Ribs - 5 haphazard placement appear to be just put in the box
pork - 6 average just chunks not pull and/or sliced placement could almost be considered marking
brisket - 5 resembles pot roast and really thick slices probably overdone

that is what I would have scored and am a cbj and cook both and would have filled out a comment card with these statements

wow, glad I'm not doing contests in this guys area.

 

[Gowan]

You dont think that happens now?

I dont think the KCBS is a double blind system, I think it is a blind system, but I maybe wrong on that.

KCBS is certainly a double blind system. The cooks do not know who is judging their entry (blind 1). The judges don't know who prepared the entry they are scoring (blind 2). To prevent the blinds from being defeated, boxes are renumbered at the turn-in table so that judges and cooks cannot compare numbers.

As to your earlier question, the admonition against identifying boxes is not in the published rules and regulations. ( I never said it was, I said you were directed not to as a CBJ) However this subject is covered in every CBJ class I've attended, and often during the judges meeting at a contest as well. Rep Advisory 4.44 states:

4.44 Blind Judging​

Question: Once the judging is over, can we reveal the names of the cooks to the judges?​

Opinion: ​

No! Under no circumstances should the names, or the team numbers of the cooks, be revealed to the judges, contest organizers (until check writing time), or volunteers. The only person besides the KCBS Rep who should have access to this information is the person entering the results into the computer. And, they are not authorized to share this information with anyone.​

February 17, 2006

This concept runs to the core of the KCBS scoring and judging system. If you were not aware of it, perhaps you might consider a refresher CBJ course. You can attend a second class at no charge as a CBJ in good standing.

I apologize for sounding preachy, but I'll admit I was rather dismayed to see a direct attempt to defeat the blinds in a public Internet forum. There is enough controversy over scores as it is - imagine how bad it would be if cooks could hunt down judges who gave them low scores or if judges could award top scores to their favorite teams! I've seen this happen at non-sanctioned events, and the resulting fallout isn't pretty.

 

[Boshizzle]

I would have pretty much given you an 8 on everything. Here is why - All of it looks well cooked with lots of care. However, the marks on the chicken, while a nice idea, are a bit too dark. The ribs are close to a 9. If the ribs were more uniformly shaped or at least arranged in a way that they look uniformly shaped, you would get a 9 out of me. The ribs look juicy, not over sauced, and have a nice color. The pork looks like there is some kind of "gunk" on it. Maybe it's the photo. The center piece looks like someone took a bite out of it already. I'd suggest each piece show a little bark and a little meat. Otherwise, I like the presentation. The brisket looks really good and I just may have given you a 9. The only suggestion I would give is to remove the black rub pieces that are all over the face of the meat as it takes away from the presentation. Overall, nice job!

 

[ThomEmery]

Double Blind would mean the Reps do not know whose
que is in that box
In other Judging systems that rely on numbered tickets to
identify the winners a double blind exists but no read out

Blind would describe the fine system that KCBS uses

correct?

 

[Bentley]

Like I said, there is no rule. I have not been instructed not to, so maybe you better work on your buddies at KCBS and not worry about my continuing education. I also belive the point you are referencing pertains to KCBS Reps, not judges.

And your reference even points out blind judging, not double blind.

May I suggest you consider some CE for the future.

 

[SmokinOkie]

Like I said, there is no rule. I have not been instructed not to, so maybe you better work on your buddies at KCBS and not worry about my continuing education. I also belive the point you are referencing pertains to KCBS Reps, not judges.

And your reference even points out blind judging, not double blind.

May I suggest you consider some CE for the future.

Wow, then let's argue intent and what you should or shouldn't do.

Double blind. If KCBS picks random numbers for the boxes as given to the teams and then changes that number before the box reaches the table, I think that's defined as double blind.

Have you ever judged, that system is pretty much known to all the judges out there.

Ask KCBS for a ruling if you think it's okay for you to talk about what teams you've judged.

I have heard reps at events take that ruling above and tell judges to not try to figure out there teams. I've personally heard reps tell judges, when they mention "I know that was such and such a team" that they could be removed.

Go to KCBS and ask for a ruling.

Keep in mind there is the perspective of a team. I've been on the other end of this, when a judge said, hey did you chicken box look like X and since I thought it was you and you could do better I didn't score it real high. It looked like the judge had a grudge against me since his score was more than 2 points different from everyone else. He was the low judge on that entry.

You should have heard my discussion with the rep after THAT comment.

 

[Bentley]

You take it up with KCBS, it's not my job to interperate rules that arent there...

 

[big brother smoke]

Bent, I got to say I disagree with you. Just because something is not spelled out in black and white does not mean it is ok to do what you will. The key word here is "integrity."

Going against the grain in judging, devalues the whole comp experience for all involved.

 

[ModelMaker]

No offense, but couldn't the Good Ole Boy Network also be judges learning to recognize a teams signature presentation and scoring up or down based on the relationship?

In my opinion, the system is double blind for a reason and more important for those that compete and/or judge on a regular basis.

Give it some thought.

I have met alot of nice folks on my judging journey over the last four years, and some of them I'd call good freinds. I go and visit on Fridays when I can, and chew the fat with many teams on any given Friday.
I can say this without a doubt, if I saw an entry at my table and knew for absolute no doubt (very unlikley) it was one of my cook team freinds entry it would get judged without partiality and scored to the best of my ability.
Period.
I'm positive any team I know wouldn't have it any other way.
Period.
If I knew of a judge doing it any other way I would'nt hesitate contacting the rep.
Period.
Ed

 

[Bentley]

Bent, I got to say I disagree with you. Just because something is not spelled out in black and white does not mean it is ok to do what you will. The key word here is "integrity."

Going against the grain in judging, devalues the whole comp experience for all involved.

You know that I value your opinion.

I disagree with your assessment; I am supposed to know that I am not to do this. More clairvoyant people on this forum than me...I see this turning into a pissing match and I cant piss as far since I stopped drink beer, and it takes away from the original thread so I will just keep my remaining thoughts on this to myself.

 

[big brother smoke]

You know that I value your opinion.

I disagree with your assessment; I am supposed to know that I am not to do this. More clairvoyant people on this forum than me...I see this turning into a pissing match and I cant piss as far since I stopped drink beer, and it takes away from the original thread so I will just keep my remaining thoughts to this to myself.

I really just spit coffee on the monitor :laugh:

 

[Big Poppa]

I love watching this.

 

[Bigmista]

All this, huh? See if I show my boxes again.

 

[ThomEmery]

LOL Neil

 

[Gowan]

I thought your boxes looked fine Neil - your chix was awesome!

Bentley, It sounds like you should let your KCBS membership expire. Since the organization is obviously chafing you, why not spare yourself the aggravation? No point in being involved in something that makes you unhappy. (At least that's what my ex-wife told me!)

 

[Bentley]

I thought your boxes looked fine Neil - your chix was awesome!

Bentley, It sounds like you should let your KCBS membership expire. Since the organization is obviously chafing you, why not spare yourself the aggravation? No point in being involved in something that makes you unhappy. (At least that's what my ex-wife told me!)

Thanks, as soon as I become a Master CBJ I will...

Till then I am told I cant bitch and moan at them in less I am a member, so its worth the $35 a year for that...

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

If your settin at any table I've ever been at and make a comment during judging you would be nicely asked to not talk. Do it again and you would probably be replaced. Talking during judging is a definite no no.

Duh! But it still would be hilarious. I'd like to get that on film. I can just see Will Ferrle doing it in the Popdaddy - Barbefunkoramaque Movie

But none the less, thanks for the serious consideration. This was always a joke of mine back in the 1990s when I judged. I mean a joek I would tell during the walks.

 

[Big Poppa]

Hey Neil We can discuss this at length in the Mobile ManCave......Thanks for being a pioneer I was going to post our turn in photos but Im just too sensitive! hehahaa
Bbq and related forums have double standards and hidden rules?...most forums do...there are always different rules for different members. This place is as close to pure as it gets.

 

[Bigmista]

Hey Neil We can discuss this at length in the Mobile ManCave......Thanks for being a pioneer I was going to post our turn in photos but Im just too sensitive! hehahaa
Bbq and related forums have double standards and hidden rules?...most forums do...there are always different rules for different members. This place is as close to pure as it gets.

You will definitely get some honest opinions with some jokes thrown in but I've met you and I know you can take it.

 

[bbqbull]

Please stop the name calling and lets get things back on the subject please!
Thanks in advance.