BBQ Classes

[HBMTN]

I think by the very nature of paying $750 to go to a class that it would not be wise to go give all of the info to people you compete against, that would be counter productive as you are probably going to the class to get an edge on the competition. I also agree with Ique that to go post what you learned somewhere would not be cool either. But if you are at a competition and someone help you by giving you a tip, and you can help them with something you learned at a class then you should be able to tell them the tip or two that you learned in the class. You don't have to tell them where you learned it I don't guess.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

Doesn't matter where you learn, learning is what it's all about. Like they say a little knowledge is dangerous. I am a believer in helping and giving out info from all I have gathered over the years, whether I payed for it or picked it up myself. Do you think the guy teaching the class invented the method or flavors they are teaching? If you wlak in my site while we are tuning in or anytime you want I will tell you anything we do, I will also give credit where credit is due. If I got an idea from someone I would say yea and I use this because I learned it from so and so cook book or this ones class. There is nothing wrong with sharing knowledge, it is actually a GREAT thing whether paid for or not, the end. I just drank a lot of NYQUIL!

 

[Dan - 3eyzbbq]

Doesn't matter where you learn, learning is what it's all about. Like they say a little knowledge is dangerous. I am a believer in helping and giving out info from all I have gathered over the years, whether I payed for it or picked it up myself. Do you think the guy teaching the class invented the method or flavors they are teaching? If you wlak in my site while we are tuning in or anytime you want I will tell you anything we do, I will also give credit where credit is due. If I got an idea from someone I would say yea and I use this because I learned it from so and so cook book or this ones class. There is nothing wrong with sharing knowledge, it is actually a GREAT thing whether paid for or not, the end. I just drank a lot of NYQUIL!

I'll have a "representative" at your site in Little Rock. He will have a note pad and video camera but I promise, he won't get in the way :icon_devil

 

[HoDeDo]

It is an interesting topic. I think the teammate question is really a no-brainer right? IF you are cooking with someone, you will both know what each other is doing... or you arent an effective team.

But as far as knowledge in general: I have learned from the HoDeDos, Strawberry Hill Smokers, Sparkle Plenty (the original Sparky, and Rick both), Pig Newton, The Slabs, 4 Men and a Pig, you name it.. other names like Pork Pullin Plowboys (have to include todd, even if we are teammates, right?), KC Can Crew, Mokan Meatheads, are all in there too. I've had alot of learning over the years in my comp. bbq.

Anyone that asks a question, will always get a straight answer from me. I have no problem draggin ya into the trailer to demo a technique, share a rub, etc. IT happens all the time. Heck, my wife even more so than I do -- I think she holds box class at almost every comp. LOL I do that because folks did it for me. I have gotten guidance from folks whenever I asked...and sometimes when I didnt. I like to think that some folks have scored better thanks to my input. That is what it is all about it! I know alot of folks helped me get to where I am today, competitively.

I think Matt asked "why a class, when you can google".... I think there is a deliniation to be drawn. The value of the class is this: You get the full package in one place, in context, and in a proven process. That process is key, as is the context. Googling a technique, does not put it in context with the other three things you are managing at a contest,nor does it plug it into the overall process for you. To build that takes time... lots of cooking to build the processes and overall cook successes. The Comp class is a new phenom... with more money out there, folks want to shorten the learning curve and get a shot at those $$ and the rush of the name call "now". without building the process themselves. So yes, while you can google the techniques, putting them together in a cohesive package is the value of the class.

I answer questions all the time, but they are specific to a certain topic, or rough spot someone might be having.... I dont provide the whole picture end to end in context. I would expect a fee for that. I have over 15 years putting it all together. that is where the extra value is extracted.

Having said that, most classes I have taught were not for competitors. I have 6 classes and a handful of demos under my belt, and none were for competitors. And the prices reflect that: $50-$250 head depending on the topic, lenght of time, etc. IF you pay $500 or $750 for a class, there is an expectation that you will do better with what you have learned. To me that is a whole new level of competition... besting yourself. I think it takes alot to have the guts to do the teaching of a "competition" class - the people in your class are putting thier trust in you, (and thier $$); I am sure the instructors genuinely want to see the class pay off with success on the student's part. I know I would feel like I broke that trust of my student, or "undersold" -- If that student didnt show any improvement. It takes alot to be able to teach that, and teach it effectively. My hats off to Rod, Johnny, Mike D., MM, that teach the specifically comp classes... it is alot of pressure to perform - and to do it, and see the successes thier students have, is a testament to the champions they are.

 

[KuyasKitchen]

If I spend $500+ on a class, that information is mine to use as I please (with the exception of any handouts, videos, copyrightable information). And, knowing me, I will do what I please with it.

That said, if I paid $500 for that information, I'm not going to hand it out for free or post it on the web. I PAID $500 FOR IT!

Share tips with friends? Sure. Try variations and post my results? Sure. Post directly? Hell no. Want that, it's $500 to the teacher.

 

[monty3777]

with more money out there, folks want to shorten the learning curve and get a shot at those $$ and the rush of the name call "now". without building the process themselves.

Interesting thoughts, as usual! I have put some thought into why I have paid money to take classes. I'm not sure that it has much to do with money or calls - though I enjoy both and would like to enjoy more in the future. I took my first class after 5 years of learning to smoke/cook on my own. What I wanted was to do exactly what you describe in the rest of your post - it was time for me to link all the various parts I had learned into a cohesive whole (or as you put it, to place things into a context). To me that's the real value of taking a class - whether it's a BBQ cook class or a seminar on the Bible. The point for me is to find connections that I had missed on my own.

As with anything else in my life, I have come to believe that a skill cannot be learned in isolation. That's why I will continue to take classes every year despite whether my notes lead me to perform better in a competition.

O.K., it's late and I'm rambling.

 

[suprfast]

If you pay for it, its yours. If they want to you keep it secret they should pay you to attend.

Its no different than going to college. I pay for an education to show it off and teach others. Its not like we are working at area51.

Video recording then reselling or distributing it would be wrong. If you are good enough to retain the information to give to the next person you obviously have a good understanding of the process.

 

[KC_Bobby]

If you are good enough to retain the information to give to the next person you obviously have a good understanding of the process.

Along those lines ... that's what would scare me. I'm sure most of us played the game telephone in kindergarten and the message the 3rd or 4th person got was never what the 1st person said.

I'm taking my first official class in a few weeks and I'm stoked. I've had a good share of field training from some great teams, but I'm excited to see what light bulbs go on during the class.

 

[suprfast]

Another thing to note is most of these people received their initial experience somewhere, from someone. Whether it be a minion method or a dry rub, its not like they invented something.

 

[Crash]

IMHO....Pay it forward....but dont tell everything you learned at a class. Hell, you paid for the info, why share it with teams that might kick your arse at a competition.

As for sharing class info with teamates, how do you not do that? Unless your teammates compete on other teams throughout the year, how do you really hide that info?

If other teams that you compete against wanted that info, they would have ponied up the $ and gone to school.

Again, just one dudes opinion here.

 

[Gowan]

This is a question of integrity - just like when your employer teaches you their trade secrets and asks you not to reveal them. Everybody knows there is no real way to prevent you from blabbing, so it's up to your own sense of loyalty not to.

In the long run, it is for the best if we keep the knowledge learned at BBQ classes to ourselves and perhaps our immediate teammates. Otherwise three things happen:
1) The value of the information we paid for is lessened
2) Instructors learn to hold crucial information back to protect themselves
3) We lose the respect of someone we thought highly enough of to pay them for a class

 

[monty3777]

2) Instructors learn to hold crucial information back to protect themselves

This is what I suspect will happen now that so many folks are taking classes and passing along information.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

This is what I suspect will happen now that so many folks are taking classes and passing along information.

Are we talking about cooking some food or coming up with a cure for aids?:twisted:

 

[monty3777]

Are we talking about cooking some food or coming up with a cure for aids?:twisted:

Oh, I guess I wasn't clear. I MEANT to write "coming up with a cure for AIDS." My bad.
8)

 

[U2CANQUE]

Anyone that asks a question, will always get a straight answer from me. I have no problem draggin ya into the trailer to demo a technique, share a rub, etc. IT happens all the time. Heck, my wife even more so than I do -- I think she holds box class at almost every comp.

I have witnessed it first hand, and I know that the team that was behind up at Oinktoberfest were still talking about the chicken lesson that they have got from you....

it is also fun to watch the parsley parties.....talk about a group experience.....

Matt....I dont really hide anythign either, but, I appreciated it a lot that last year at Rochester that you even asked to come into the site to hide from your crew.....though I am open with sharing, I hope that a person is prepared to "glove up" when they come in since I am usually cooking alone....:biggrin:

 

[Ron_L]

If I buy a cook-book I can loan it out or share a recipe it's mine I paid for it.

That's a good point, Huck. There is a difference, however. The book is copyright material. Yes, you can loan it to a friend, but legally you can't copy a page out of it and give it others, and you can post recipes from the book on a public forum without attribution (and some publishers require express permission).

In my mind the material in the class is similar. We are paying for the information for our personal use and I don't see a problem sharing it with team mates and friends, but I don't think publishing it on a public forum would be fair to the instructor. In most cases the instructor isn't showing any basic techniques that aren't public knowledge (foiling rib, injecting butts, etc.) but the details of how they do it and what they do differently are unique and not public knowledge. Taking it further, in most cases these folks are friends or at least fellow BBQer and I think they deserve some respect for sharing their techniques to help folks who could eventually beat them out of a cash prize.

If too many people start sharing what they learn in these classes freely it wouldn't surprise me if instructors started asking their students to sign an agreement before taking the class that prohibits that. Agreements like that are common in seminars, etc. in the business world where sensitive or confidential information is presented.

 

[Plowboy]

Another thing to note is most of these people received their initial experience somewhere, from someone. Whether it be a minion method or a dry rub, its not like they invented something.

I don't understand this statement. How do you know they haven't invented something?

There ARE new & unique ideas out there. I've been working on some chicken techniques on the FEC-100 that I've never heard anyone do before, neither has Fast Eddy or other top FEC-100 cooks I've talked to. Anyone who has seen KC Can Crew cook chicken knows that the guy is doing something unique.


And contrary to other statements made in this thread, there ARE secrets out there, too. I know of a team that is doing something just this year that would amaze most pellet cooks. Per the team, I'm the only person outside of the team that knows... and it will stay that way.

I think all of these instructors know that once they give it out, it is out there. You just have to assume that it will be shared. You can't control it, so why worry about it.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

I guess you can consider them secrets and only a few know if nobody communicates, but I am sure there are other people doing it. I did some things in the past that I am sure no one has ever done, I will never do most of them again. I did muffin pan chicken in 2006 at our first comp ever, we did good with it, never stuck with it because we changed our ways. I have some sick crazy ideas this year for my chicken, I hope to god it works, I think I created it but I am sure someone else out there has done it.

Here is something we experimented with in the past, I will share it because we do not do it anymore. We airbrushed smoke rings on with food paint, it looked farking amazing, we don't do it anymore because it stains your fingers and takes to long and the food gets ice cold. But it is the best looking thing you will ever see. There is an idea that I thought I came up with, but I doubt it! Anyone else want to throw soething out there!

 

[HoDeDo]

I agree with you 100%, I had narrowed my scope to some assumptions about Comp BBQ classes. I figure you dont take one unless you are trying to improve your comp scores, meaning getting a walk or money. But I agree 100% with your statement. Linking the parts is the key! Thanks for taking it up a notch and pulling that out of my long winded diatribe

Interesting thoughts, as usual! I have put some thought into why I have paid money to take classes. I'm not sure that it has much to do with money or calls - though I enjoy both and would like to enjoy more in the future. I took my first class after 5 years of learning to smoke/cook on my own. What I wanted was to do exactly what you describe in the rest of your post - it was time for me to link all the various parts I had learned into a cohesive whole (or as you put it, to place things into a context). To me that's the real value of taking a class - whether it's a BBQ cook class or a seminar on the Bible. The point for me is to find connections that I had missed on my own.

As with anything else in my life, I have come to believe that a skill cannot be learned in isolation. That's why I will continue to take classes every year despite whether my notes lead me to perform better in a competition.

O.K., it's late and I'm rambling.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

Matt....I dont really hide anythign either, but, I appreciated it a lot that last year at Rochester that you even asked to come into the site to hide from your crew.....though I am open with sharing, I hope that a person is prepared to "glove up" when they come in since I am usually cooking alone....:biggrin:

Thanks, I am respectful to peoples wishes. :twisted: