Certified KCBS Judge

No, they're not compensated. Many spend a lot of time and money traveling to and from competitions. They're in it for many reasons. Some cook also and it helps to see what judges are looking for, some are backyard cooks, some just because they love BBQ.

Although you do realize that a Master CBJ gets exactly double what a regular CBJ gets, right?

:grin:


Really, I do it because I have a lot of friends who are cooks and I enjoy visiting with them on Friday evening and then after judging and at the awards.

This is a hobby / sport / obsession that does cost a bit when you add up the miles that I travel doing 12 to 15 contests a year and dragging my 30 foot fifth wheel around the country.

But then again - I don't have near the $$$ wrapped up in this that the average cook team does :mrgreen:.

With KCBS and MBN judging there is NO compensation for judging, and some events even require the judge to pay an entry fee to judge. A few of the North Carolina Pork Council events that I judge actually pay the judges $50 for judging a competition.

Judges get paid nothing but you have to also understand that there are about 60,000 who have passed the CBJ course and zero have failed the course so the value is pretty much nil.

Ray, I hope you're questioning the value of the certification course and not the value of judges. Many of us study and practice prep,cooking,flavor profiles and other components of good tasting, competition quality bbq. I and many others I've met try very hard to be good judges. My wife and I traveled over 7000 miles last year to judge various contests. It gets a little old when we hear others denounce the quality of judges. Some people are painting with a pretty big brush it seems. It's been my experience that when you have large groups of people, both good and bad elements are found.

drbbq said:

Judges get paid nothing but you have to also understand that there are about 60,000 who have passed the CBJ course and zero have failed the course so the value is pretty much nil.

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Do I detect the cynicism of someone who has not taken the class for fear of failing? :heh: I'll bet that most of the folks who have taken the class will not even vote this January.

I know there are many dedicated good judges but there is no real way to know who they are. The CBJ program is excellent as a PR thing but pretty much useless for training judges. And while I appreciate some doing their own education it can make for a wide discrepancy among judges skills.
As a cook I get tired of hearing about all the miles judges travel. Hey they do it because it's their hobby and they like to travel just like the cooks do. Hobbies cost money. Very few cooks are making money doing contests. BTW I'm also a judge and I'm flying to Houston in Feb to judge and it never crossed my mind that I'd get paid or get travel money.

drbbq said:

I know there are many dedicated good judges but there is no real way to know who they are. The CBJ program is excellent as a PR thing but pretty much useless for training judges. And while I appreciate some doing their own education it can make for a wide discrepancy among judges skills...

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I agree. Even though I've only cooked a couple KCBS events (mainly cook IBCA). Just because a judge is certigied doesn't make them a better judge than someone who is not. IBCA goes over judging criteria before judging. IBCA does fine without certified judges, and I'm sure KCBS could also.

Just my opinion, and I have no hard feelings towards any CBJs, but you won't get me to pay to be certified.

drbbq said:

As a cook I get tired of hearing about all the miles judges travel.

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I totally agree! I'm still a newbie so right now I'm only cooking local comps. It has been brought to my attention that many of the event organizers don't want to use first time judges down here. If this is true, I think that is bogus! Local judges should be given first shot at judging local events. This leads me to wonder if imported judges are being brought in to make many of the big name points chasers happy.

I personally value the CBJ program and the CBJ's. As a cook, the CBJ program gives me a standard to cook for, however when you have non-CBJ's/celebs you never know what your scores are going to look like (ever get scored down for a perfectly cooked rib and get a comment card that says the meat didn't fall off the bone?).

I average competing at over 12 contest per year and have found that, in all but very few instances, when I get low scores, I just have to look in the mirror to see the problem. Yes, every once in a while you will come across a hard table of judges, but that's the breaks. I guess I just had to grow up and quit blaming judges for my poor performances in the past.

As far as the judges traveling, I'm all for it. If anyone of you have ever met Dave, Rookie'48, you know he is one of the most knowledgeable individuals out there not to mention his love of the sport. Talking with him and other judges after the contest has shown me that they really love what they do and take it very serious. I would love to have a band of traveling Master CBJ's at any contest I am at rather than .... well, I'll just leave it at that.

As cooks, we should be thanking these individuals for their unselfish dedication to make our sport better. Those who are bagging on them should either get to know the judges or shut the frac up! Just MHO for what it's worth.

Smoke'n Ice said:

I'll bet that most of the folks who have taken the class will not even vote this January.

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And that is something that pi$$es me off :mad2:. The e-ballot is right there on the computer - all you have to do is log in & VOTE. Last year less than 20% of the eligible members bothered to vote.

Basically we have 50% +1 of 18% of the membership electing the Bod . I guess that's ok with some folks but it still ticks me off.

HarleyEarl said:

I personally value the CBJ program and the CBJ's. As a cook, the CBJ program gives me a standard to cook for, however when you have non-CBJ's/celebs you never know what your scores are going to look like (ever get scored down for a perfectly cooked rib and get a comment card that says the meat didn't fall off the bone?).

I average competing at over 12 contest per year and have found that, in all but very few instances, when I get low scores, I just have to look in the mirror to see the problem. Yes, every once in a while you will come across a hard table of judges, but that's the breaks. I guess I just had to grow up and quit blaming judges for my poor performances in the past.

As far as the judges traveling, I'm all for it. If anyone of you have ever met Dave, Rookie'48, you know he is one of the most knowledgeable individuals out there not to mention his love of the sport. Talking with him and other judges after the contest has shown me that they really love what they do and take it very serious. I would love to have a band of traveling Master CBJ's at any contest I am at rather than .... well, I'll just leave it at that.

As cooks, we should be thanking these individuals for their unselfish dedication to make our sport better. Those who are bagging on them should either get to know the judges or shut the frac up! Just MHO for what it's worth.

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I guess I should re-phrase myself. I have no real issue with judges traveling, I just don't like the idea that we could have locals that have taken the class and gotten certified but can't find a contest to judge at because they fill up with out of state judges.

HarleyEarl said:

As cooks, we should be thanking these individuals for their unselfish dedication to make our sport better. Those who are bagging on them should either get to know the judges or shut the frac up! Just MHO for what it's worth.

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Not bagging from me, just pointing out that judging can work well with "seasoned" judges that don't have to be certified.

Q-Dat said:

I guess I should re-phrase myself. I have no real issue with judges traveling, I just don't like the idea that we could have locals that have taken the class and gotten certified but can't find a contest to judge at because they fill up with out of state judges.

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The issue could be planning on the judges part - I'm sure many of the traveling judges line out which contests they want to judge at prior to the season and either contact the contest organizer early and ask to be put on the mailing list for judge applications or they keep an eye out for the contest to be announced and send in their application immediately. You can't wait until the last minute and decide you want to judge "next weekend" and complain you can't get in.

Another issue could be reliability - the organizers value judges who actually show up to judge. The traveling judges have made a commitment in time and money to travel to these contests and for the most part can be relied on to appear. If they can't make it, I'm sure they contact the organizer ahead of time and let them know so a replacement can be found.

Most contests end up with at least a few no-shows, so the local judges who really want to judge could attend the contest and be on-call if this happens.

I am interested in becoming a judge, for a couple of reasons:
1) I like great BBQ
2) I want to learn how to make great BBQ

I am new to the forum, but have been cooking for 30+ years. Kitchen cooking has become a little dull and I love cooking outdoors and making BBQ.

thillin said:

Not bagging from me, just pointing out that judging can work well with "seasoned" judges that don't have to be certified.

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You might be right, but not from my experience. There is a local contest that is wonderfully run and I have really enjoyed competing at in the past, but they boast only 18% CBJ - most of the judges are celebs from the local community which is great for PR. I quit doing this contest a few years ago since I stepped my game up and want to work my way up the TOY ladder (which I admit, I have a way to go) - I value the consistency of scores I see with contests with at least 80% CBJ's. The reason I stopped attending that contest was the last year I was there, I turned in pork that should have been DAL by all standards and I got a call - it was mush. I also had to slice the brisket almost a half inch thick to keep it together-just out of the top 10. It was the worst cook by far for me that season where nothing went right and I was in the top ten overall. Should have never happened.

Another example was a contest last year early in the season with over 100 teams that claims 40% CBJ on the result page, however, speaking with a trusted Master CBJ who was in the judge's hall, there were no more than 25 judges who raise their hands when asked who was certified. My scores were all over the place with no consistency - how can one judge give you a 5 and another a 9 in tenderness for brisket? IMO it was probably in the 8 range. But how do you improve with scores like these? This is another contest I will no longer support and judging is just the tip of the iceberg for this decision.

Bottom line - the higher percentage of CBJ's results in more consistency in your scores and gives you a basis for improvement. There may be some exceptions, but my vote is for a high percentage of seasoned CBJ's at any given contest.

HarleyEarl said:

but they boast only 18% CBJ - most of the judges are celebs from the local community which is great for PR. ...

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We seem to look for the same thing "seasoned" judges. There are comps across TX that go through the same thing. But either way, the cream seems to rise to the top. Remember, if your scores are all over the board, so is theirs. But that is the chance that cooks take at any comp, CBJs or not.